You keep pulling that one. First with cops now with this. My best friend did two tours in Iraq. We have different views on this one. But emotion or how people feel About something should not be the primer for war. I don’t care if Saddam hussein and his offspring raped and tortured every citizen of that country. The fact they didn’t rise up against him on their own showed they were not ready to be free of him. It isn’t our Place to push freedom on people, it must be attained organically. It just be earned to be appreciated.
There are a lot of reasons to oppose intervention in Iraq. Saying removing Saddam was not worth it is an ignorant response from someone ignorant of the horrors of Saddam’s reign.
I’m a little rusty arguing with people I agree with 90% of the time. My best friend and I agreed on almost everything. But we avoided opinions on war because it was an emotional thing with him. Remember, we met in ROTC. Yet we always had very different views on war.
I absolutely support war when there is a clear and present danger to the US. I was never convinced of this on this war. I also lack most emotion and empathy. So considering how my friend feels about having lost friends or me even losing him, which almost happened, never are even considered.
I’m a little rusty arguing with people I agree with 90% of the time. My best friend and I agreed on almost everything. But we avoided opinions on war because it was an emotional thing with him. Remember, we met in ROTC. Yet we always had very different views on war.
I absolutely support war when there is a clear and present danger to the US. I was never convinced of this on this war. I also lack most emotion and empathy. So considering how my friend feels about having lost friends or me even losing him, which almost happened, never are even considered.
Again, there are a number of reasons to oppose US intervention, but downplaying the horror of Saddam’s reign is ridiculous and ignorant.
“there were many good relationships that GWB strengthened or maintained with other world leaders”
Other than Tony Blair who did you have in mind?
You could check with some ex-Soviet satellite countries. Israel, Japan, really you could look at the list of those he had to his ranch in Crawford, including Putin and China’s leader at the time (would you say our relations with those countries are better now?).
Visits from foreign dignitaries
Putin and Bush in 2001
Visitors to the ranch have included:
Russian President Vladimir Putin, November 2001British Prime Minister Tony Blair, April 2002Saudi King Abdullah, April 2002, April 2005Saudi Prince Bandar bin Sultan, August 2002Chinese President Jiāng Zémín, October 2002Spanish Prime Minister José María Aznar, February 2003Australian Prime Minister John Howard, May 2003Japanese Prime Minister Koizumi Jun’ichirō, May 2003Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi, July 2003Mexican President Vicente Fox, March 2004, March 2005Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak, April 2004Spanish King Juan Carlos and Queen Sofía, November 2004Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin, March 2005Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, April 2005Colombian President Álvaro Uribe, August 2005German Chancellor Angela Merkel, November 2007Danish Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen, February 2008 ________________________________________________________________________________
I find the revisionist aspect of this argument interesting. Just before Colin Powell went before the UN in 2003 to argue the case for military action against Sadam there were at least two western intelligence agencies(Germany and France) that were onboard with our own National Intelligence Estimate that Iraq had a pretty robust CBW program going on. The sneaky bastard buried most of the weapons and some of the weapons found their way into the bad guys hands. If you believe this to be true or not doesn’t really matter although you can look through some of the Snowden material and see cables that mention different entities trying to use cbw’s against US troops but failing(difficult to weaponize via an ied). Bottom line is that Iraq was a bit of a shit show but after the surge much less so, I think the situation today happened incrementally and the current administration was too busy playing golf to notice. I think there were many options along the continuum that were not explored that should have been that may have prevented or mitigated the situation that exists now. One other thing that bothers me is the rules of engagement that have been issued for the military “advisors” that are being sent to Iraq. The current administration has a bad reputation with the troops as far as roe’s go.
“but downplaying the horror of Saddam’s reign is ridiculous and ignorant.”
But then what about the Shah of Iran? Foreign policy is usually based on who is “our guy”, not on morality.
Yeah, that guy was brutal; wanting to give women voting rights and recognize Israel…NUTS! Good thing we had Jimmy Carter to help usher in change. Obama is set to make Carter’s “accomplishments” pale.
“Yeah, that guy was brutal; wanting to give women voting rights and recognize Israel…”
Oh c’mon. Although he did try to modernize Iran he did so with one of the most brutal dictatorships the world has seen, plus amassing great wealth on the backs of his people. Remember his famous quote “when Iranians start acting like Swedes then I’ll start acting like the king of Sweden. Until that time disciplinary measures will be necessary”.
I read an interesting BBC analysis several years ago that concluded that if the USA hadn’t propped him up, then Iran today would have developed into a legitimate democracy on its own instead of what we have today. Unfortunately I don’t have the source.
meh, I think it’s the corruption that is the root of discontent in many of these places, and gives strength to other forces that may or may not end better for the masses.
JFC but you are a fucking dipshit when it comes to history. Go do some research about why Iran went from propped up “regime” under the Shah’s to a theocracy led member of the “axis of evil”… I’ll give you a hint: $$$$$$
Even if Obama is one of the two worst presidents that ever was or ever will be, Cheney is one of a very few that should shut up and apologize for ever speaking.
I agree. Cheney needs to shut up about Iraq. But if he wants to talk about gun control, then I’m all ears. Whoa, wait…
You are asking me to defend Obama. I cannot. I can’t think of a single positive thing about him or his administration. I thought bush was the worst and we couldn’t get any worse than this amateur convinced a lot of foolish people to vote for him. He then proceeded to blame the prior administration for his inability to fix thing he promised to and willingly pursued the chance to fix. He is everything that could possibly be embodied in a poor leader. An amateur, a demagogue, a radical socialist, an obvious narcissist.
Apparently some one has been hypnotized by the rhetoric emanating from the anus of the republican party. Forgy, can you give us examples of Obama’s “radical socialist” policies?
Obamacare is pretty socialist. But I said he was a radical socialist. If he had his way, we would be a socialist country. But we have historically been a fascist country. Presidents are largely figurehead beholding to corporate and elite masters who fund their campaigns. While he pushes all the hope and change BS, he has really just expanded must of the status quo under bush. Problem is a president and his legacy is still beholden to an electorate. And like pure libertarianism, pure socialism is not possible.
Have you read his various books? Have you seen some of things he has said early in his career? His friends and associates? His endorsements?
Obamacare is pretty socialist. But I said he was a radical socialist. If he had his way, we would be a socialist country. But we have historically been a fascist country. Presidents are largely figurehead beholding to corporate and elite masters who fund their campaigns. While he pushes all the hope and change BS, he has really just expanded must of the status quo under bush. Problem is a president and his legacy is still beholden to an electorate. And like pure libertarianism, pure socialism is not possible.
Have you read his various books? Have you seen some of things he has said early in his career? His friends and associates? His endorsements?
I don’t see any examples of “radical socialism” in the above mess that you posted and who are you referring to when you say " have you read his books?'" Stop watching the FOX noise channel, Forgy; it melts your brain.
Apparently some one has been hypnotized by the rhetoric emanating from the anus of the republican party. Forgy, can you give us examples of Obama’s “radical socialist” policies?
Did you read the OP? We’re talking about the rhetoric emanating from dick, not anus.
JFC but you are a fucking dipshit when it comes to history. Go do some research about why Iran went from propped up “regime” under the Shah’s to a theocracy led member of the “axis of evil”… I’ll give you a hint: $$$$$$
Thx, I’ve read abut before, during, and after; tough situation, and tough for Carter, but seems like it was pretty simple in your mind. Good for you.
The guy was endorsed by the communist party. That is pretty radical. He has called the constitution an obstacle to his wealth redistribution. He has told middle class people that it isn’t that he wants to take their money away, but he things the wealth should be spread. Also the largest welfare/wealth redistribution program ever passed in US history has his name on it.
That is pretty radical in my view.
Shall we now discuss his narcissism? How about his destruction of the US?
The guy was endorsed by the communist party. That is pretty radical. He has called the constitution an obstacle to his wealth redistribution. He has told middle class people that it isn’t that he wants to take their money away, but he things the wealth should be spread. Also the largest welfare/wealth redistribution program ever passed in US history has his name on it.
That is pretty radical in my view.
Shall we now discuss his narcissism? How about his destruction of the US?
I am not saying you’re accurate or inaccurate because I don’t know but I am interested in being pointed to the source of the above bolded statement.
