This accident reminds me why we are building the Gordie Howe bridge. It takes years to build a bridge. Hopefully less for Baltimore than most.
Hazmat used to be transported over Detroit river by ferry but you do need a dedicated ferry terminal for transports I guess
Biden has announced that it is his intention that the Federal Government will pay for the replacement bridge. Queue GOP efforts to block funding for this project…
Maryland paid for it originally just saying
I suspect there may be some contribution coming from the ship’s insurer. Lloyd’s of London could be on the hook for hundreds of millions in insurance payout.
That’s a lot of words for shitty design and construction. But okay.
Design yes, but not bad enough that other bridges with the exact same design need to be changed or replaced.
Not at all construction. So stay ignorant if you choose.
Did your grandfather build it or something? Your butt hurt over my comments about the bridge is puzzling.
As far as I know, I have zero connection to anybody involved in the construction of the original bridge. I was living in the area when this event happened and paid close attention to it. I get mildly annoyed when idiots on the internet throw around stupid statements acting like they actually know something when they do not. It is best to get the real facts out there so others do not parrot the incorrect statements the idiots parrot.
So, design was a factor (not enough of a factor to shut down other bridges with the same exact design, so if you truly believe the design is not safe I would check every bridge you drive over to make sure it is not the same style). As was the age/corrosion of components of the design along with a large dead load of materials a contractor had on the bridge for some maintenance work. Original construction was not a factor in any way shape or form.
Strange that they didn’t have tug escorts nearby. When I was working on a ship, and we were smaller then this one, we always had 2 tug boats either very close or they were connected to us by ropes every time we were entering or leaving.
I found a source that explains local pilot and tug protocols as well as some specifics on this incident:
Ship tracking data from marinetraffic.com showed the Dali was headed toward the Key Bridge unaccompanied when it crashed into the bridge early Tuesday morning. Two tugboats, both operated by McAllister Towing and Transportation, helped the Dali out of the dock between 12:30 a.m. and 1 a.m. Those tugboats left the cargo ship around 1:09 a.m. The Dali begins veering right and away from the main channel at 1:25 a.m., four minutes and 23 seconds before it struck the bridge.
A Chesapeake Bay pilot would have been on the ship giving navigation commands to the ship’s bridge, or those steering the boat. The ships are too big and waters too unfamiliar for foreign pilots to navigate the bay themselves, said retired Chesapeake Bay pilot, Capt. William Band.
“There are usually a minimum of two tugs that run with them,†Gray said. “They are pulling the ship off the dock,†he said, and then running alongside them under the bridges and then out into the Chesapeake Bay. If the ship gets in trouble or loses power, the tugboats would try to shove the ship back on course, he said.
“That channel is pretty wide. You can have two ships passing underneath the bridge. There is room for everyone,†said Gray. “They would have been able to see the bridge. They will see the lights on the spans.â€
A tanker third mate for Crowley’s tank fleet who has sailed through the Baltimore Port repeatedly over the last 18 years said that two, or even one tugboat, may have been able to help a cargo ship of that size, depending on the horsepower of the boats.
It is common for tugboats to peel off ahead of a bridge, such as the Francis Scott Key. The standard notice is for the tugboats to continue the escort if there was a reported mechanical issue with the ship or a recommendation was made by the pilots’ association or the captain of the port due to difficult sea conditions.
Once the Dali was in the main shipping channel and headed out, he said, it would normally not have taken long to reach the bridge.
“I’m still standing here in shock,†said Band, who worked 41 years as a bay pilot. â€From the video I saw, it looked to me like a steering or engine failure on the ship,†he said. “It looked like there is smoke that came out of the stack of the ship.â€
Strange that they didn’t have tug escorts nearby. When I was working on a ship, and we were smaller then this one, we always had 2 tug boats either very close or they were connected to us by ropes every time we were entering or leaving.
I found a source that explains local pilot and tug protocols as well as some specifics on this incident:
https://www.thebaltimorebanner.com/...MUVDOFHR7Y3YJOGOY3A/
Ship tracking data from marinetraffic.com showed the Dali was headed toward the Key Bridge unaccompanied when it crashed into the bridge early Tuesday morning. Two tugboats, both operated by McAllister Towing and Transportation, helped the Dali out of the dock between 12:30 a.m. and 1 a.m. Those tugboats left the cargo ship around 1:09 a.m. The Dali begins veering right and away from the main channel at 1:25 a.m., four minutes and 23 seconds before it struck the bridge.
A Chesapeake Bay pilot would have been on the ship giving navigation commands to the ship’s bridge, or those steering the boat. The ships are too big and waters too unfamiliar for foreign pilots to navigate the bay themselves, said retired Chesapeake Bay pilot, Capt. William Band.
“There are usually a minimum of two tugs that run with them,†Gray said. “They are pulling the ship off the dock,†he said, and then running alongside them under the bridges and then out into the Chesapeake Bay. If the ship gets in trouble or loses power, the tugboats would try to shove the ship back on course, he said.
“That channel is pretty wide. You can have two ships passing underneath the bridge. There is room for everyone,†said Gray. “They would have been able to see the bridge. They will see the lights on the spans.â€
A tanker third mate for Crowley’s tank fleet who has sailed through the Baltimore Port repeatedly over the last 18 years said that two, or even one tugboat, may have been able to help a cargo ship of that size, depending on the horsepower of the boats.
It is common for tugboats to peel off ahead of a bridge, such as the Francis Scott Key. The standard notice is for the tugboats to continue the escort if there was a reported mechanical issue with the ship or a recommendation was made by the pilots’ association or the captain of the port due to difficult sea conditions.
Once the Dali was in the main shipping channel and headed out, he said, it would normally not have taken long to reach the bridge.
“I’m still standing here in shock,†said Band, who worked 41 years as a bay pilot. â€From the video I saw, it looked to me like a steering or engine failure on the ship,†he said. “It looked like there is smoke that came out of the stack of the ship.â€
Interesting information.
I’m in and out of Baltimore Harbor fairly regularly and don’t think I’ve ever seen a tug escort a ship under the Key Bridge. On and off the dock for sure.
Back in December I was heading from Baltimore to Annapolis and just after passing under the Key Bridge a really thick fog bank moved in. We had a near miss with a RORO ship in the channel. He had not been using any signal and we were in the wrong place. There was another ship inbound a few miles behind it and at least two tugs went to meet it in the fog.
The article talked about having tugs standing by to assist after heading fair down channel but also mentioned that service does come with a cost. Weather in the form of fog or high winds is the main driver in those calls and weather this evening was fair. Simply wrong place and wrong time to suffer an engineering casualty. The veer right seems the rudder was over right when they lost power and then being unable to move the rudder back amidship or even correct to port.
A recent USN collision by the USS John McCain also involved a steering casualty which was embarrassing beyond measure because they have a crew manning level to allow a crewman to take control manually and move the rudder to avoid danger. I assume commercial crew manning to be nowhere near as robust and wonder if they even have the capability to take control of the rudder manually.
Here’s a timeline from the NY Times.
Never let a good bridge collision go to waste.
Maybe Jewish Space Lasers were involved?
https://twitter.com/.../1772663041445724654
And then, from another true republican genius, “DEI did this”:
https://twitter.com/AnthonySabatini/status/1772643640843604097
And then, from another true republican genius, “DEI did this”:
https://twitter.com/.../1772643640843604097
The first reply I saw pretty much ends the thread.
Fred Wellman
@FPWellman·
Mar 26
You’re a racist little fucker aren’t you?
So what we know.
2 tugs help it get under way then let it go, as is typically done.
2 Port captains (one with over 10yrs exper. and an intern) were in charge.
gave full left and dropped anchor to try and get it to turn.
Sounds like, shit went bad, and they really didn’t have the extra support in case something goes wrong.
Nothing yet, on how much time they had warning. They stopped traffic, but didn’t get the road crew off.
So what we know.
2 tugs help it get under way then let it go, as is typically done.
2 Port captains (one with over 10yrs exper. and an intern) were in charge.
gave full left and dropped anchor to try and get it to turn.
Sounds like, shit went bad, and they really didn’t have the extra support in case something goes wrong.
Nothing yet, on how much time they had warning. They stopped traffic, but didn’t get the road crew off.
I was looking at a timeline yesterday. It said from the mayday to the collision was about 2 minutes. Sounds about right for enough time to stop traffic but not to get the construction crew off the bridge.
Audio of response to the mayday call.
Biden has announced that it is his intention that the Federal Government will pay for the replacement bridge. Queue GOP efforts to block funding for this project…
You do realize you and Kay are the only two posters who interjected politics into this.
Sad. Do better.
How did I inject politics into this?
You mentioned Mario Cuomo which automatically triggered a reaction.
IMO the bridge is a total loss and therefore no need to gentle. Bring in naval demolition teams and/or the Seabees.
The only hold up would be to do an investigation into why the bridge collapsed. For that they need the metal from the bottom of the river.
No investigation needed, in my opinion. Most bridge designers would identify that the bridge just isn’t designed for any significant lateral loading other than tidal forces and wind loading. Also, impact loading from vehicle crashes.
From my quick view of the collision, I expected the deck to pop like that. Look how tiny the seats are.
I design bridge foundations in California and we design for significant seismic loading (I.e. lateral loading), and as a result, our bridge foundations and supports reflect this. If you look at bridges in California vs bridges in Az or Fl, you can see the difference in structures.
Anyways, if the bridge plans are public, similar to how Caltrans has a public repository for their structures, it should only take a cursory review to see what the design lateral loads are.
Someone will do a finite element video soon, like the Titan sub.
Start with a few barges with cranes in there and start picking. It’s difficult but possible. We went though a lot when we helped plan the demo for parts the old SF-Oakland Bay bridge and that included underwater blasting. But we didn’t operate under emergency conditions, so this will be different and challenging.
More speculation and not confirmed: Today’s paper had a speculative article that poor quality bunker fuel might be the cause for losing power with clogged filters. That merchant ships often are viewed as incinerators (best disposal of waste) and are sold poor quality fuel that may have been contaminated with combustible waste products from other petro based production. The insinuation was also made that some merchant vessels introduce selectivity on fuels purchased and then how and when they were burned or stored. The good fuel to be used in restricted waterways and then they shift to the less than good stuff while in open water transit.
Biden has announced that it is his intention that the Federal Government will pay for the replacement bridge. Queue GOP efforts to block funding for this project…
You do realize you and Kay are the only two posters who interjected politics into this.
Sad. Do better.
How did I inject politics into this?
You mentioned Mario Cuomo which automatically triggered a reaction.
I wondered if that was what triggered something in his brain. So when he said “do betterâ€, he was referring to his reading comprehension?
. The insinuation was also made that some merchant vessels introduce selectivity on fuels purchased and then how and when they were burned or stored. The good fuel to be used in restricted waterways and then they shift to the less than good stuff while in open water transit.
I honestly thought that was standard operating procedure to get around environmental laws
. The insinuation was also made that some merchant vessels introduce selectivity on fuels purchased and then how and when they were burned or stored. The good fuel to be used in restricted waterways and then they shift to the less than good stuff while in open water transit.
I honestly thought that was standard operating procedure to get around environmental laws
Quite possible. Incinerator burning of bad fuel out in the middle of the ocean works better than burning it alongside someones coastal home. The speculation mainly then was somehow there was a mess up and a bad tank was placed on suction and the filters clogged causing the loss of power. I have been hoping clutch cargo would weigh in, as he has experience in the merchant fleet.
Otherwise the poor souls lost probably were still dying while people were already spreading conspiracies online about the ship drivers being impaired by the covid vaccine or it having to do with Obama somehow. FFS, open back up the asylums.
No conspiracy necessary. Let fact finding run course.
Looks like this could be one of the most expensive maritime accidents in history. The port, the ship, and the bridge are all insured. Claims could be in the billions.
Interestingly, one of the lead insurers for the bridge itself is Chubb. Chubb was involved in backing Donald Trumpâ€s bond in the E.Jean Carroll case.
See? It all traces back to Trump eventually!
https://www.ft.com/content/c44306cc-6057-4ca3-923d-d67d096765f6