Looking for some reading and training suggestions. I currently run 50-60 miles a week and have a 5k P.R. of 19:14, the problem is that it seems like whatever I do the fastest that I can go at that distance is 19:14.
Before giving the 5k an honest shot I mostly raced tri and half-mary’s (the Half P.R is 1:27:14 and I do pretty well on the running portion of tri’s).I have no real spprt background, never ran or swan in high school or college so I don’t know how the training should go in a shorter distance race like 5k.
My typical weekly training for the 5k is a long run of 12-14 miles, a speed session usally of 2min @ 5k effort w/ 2min recovery jog X 20, and a short tempo run later in the week. The rest is filled with recovery runs and an occasional 10 mile “fun run”.
Any books that might offer some advice? Anybody that might have some training tips?
Advanced Marathoning V2 by Pfitzinger. The bible of serious running. If you want to run a faster 5k, you need to do more focused track workouts. My favorite track workout is a 200-400-800-1600-800-400-200 ladder. 2’s and 4’s at max or near max effort, the 800 at slightly faster than 5k speed then the 1600 at 5k goal speed. The bottom line is if you want to run a faster 5k, you need to run faster. 12 mile runs are great, I do many of them but they aren’t helping you break 19mins in a 3.1 mile run. Also, work in some 1 mile repeats…maybe a set of 5 at race pace or faster with 1 minute of light jogging in between. Do each of those once a week and you’ll get faster; well only if you really put the hammer down and RUN FASTER!
Looking for some reading and training suggestions. I currently run 50-60 miles a week and have a 5k P.R. of 19:14, the problem is that it seems like whatever I do the fastest that I can go at that distance is 19:14.
Before giving the 5k an honest shot I mostly raced tri and half-mary’s (the Half P.R is 1:27:14 and I do pretty well on the running portion of tri’s).I have no real spprt background, never ran or swan in high school or college so I don’t know how the training should go in a shorter distance race like 5k.
My typical weekly training for the 5k is a long run of 12-14 miles, a speed session usally of 2min @ 5k effort w/ 2min recovery jog X 20, and a short tempo run later in the week. The rest is filled with recovery runs and an occasional 10 mile “fun run”.
Any books that might offer some advice? Anybody that might have some training tips?
12-14mi might be a bit much. The longest I ever ran when I was focusing on 5k was 10mi 2x week. And your speed session could use alot of work. Try, instead of 2 min @5k pace, 1-2 min @ mile pace but you should do no more than 10. I usually did 6-8. Also include another strong workout in the week. Try a 6 mi strong, but not extremely hard. You should be tired, but not sore from it the next day.
You seem to be running the correct mileage but maybe the type of runs are off. Here is an example week from my training:
Mon:10mi hard. (tempo usually with pacesetter for team)
Tue:6-7 mi (used as a recovery, run just slow enough to be able to talk)
Wed:speed: 3x600m, 4x400 (speed workouts almost always 2mi of speed) 5mi total
Thu:7-8 mi run faster than talking pace
Fri:5-6 mi run with 1mile temp in it (5k race pace+15 seconds)
Sat: 10mi little slower than mon. (about 10-15 secnds slower)
Sun:off
Not gauranteeing you success or even if you should follow this as a general guideline, but its what I used and I had great success. (15:38)
Obviously what you’re doing isn’t getting you where you want to be.
You’ll find the answer after you finish some Jack Daniels.
50-60 miles a week is a lot of volume! You can PR with half that volume if you spend more time (sorry to repeat the last post) RUNNING FAST. As in, faster than your 5k pace. In some cases, as fast as your legs can turn over.
Not to burst your bubble, but if you run 60 miles a week and do some sort of speedwork and have been doing aerobic training for a long time then you may not be much faster. Without a very detailed look at your training volume and schedule over the last few years, it is impossible to say whether or not you are already near the top of your physical potential. If a guy came to me and said they were running 20 miles a week then the solution is easy, but your volume and workload is probably going to get you about 95 percent or more of your potential. A coach, a perfect schedule and a perfect race will yield some small improvements, but that might mean you get to 18:30.
Chad
Jack Daniels will not only explain why the speed workout you cited is not doing a great job at targeting the physiological adaptations you need to get faster, it will give you the playbook you are looking for.
You’re not getting faster at a 5k because you’re never running faster than your 5k pace.
Hit the track for some speed…sets of varying distances from 400m - 1200m.
A good one I just did (training for a marathon) was this…
10 minute warm up jog
2 laps ins/outs (job turns, stride straightaways)
Two times through…
1000m, 600 easy jog
800m 400 easy jog
600m, 600 easy jog
Mile cool down, real easy
The 1000, 800, and 600 are done HARDER than 5k pace.
Do a track workout once a week, and a legit tempo run once a week and you’ll be breaking 19 in no time.
FWIW, I am a high school track and cross country coach.
seems very simple to me, you arent training for 5km…but for half marathon. You program isnt going in the right direction and you arent adressing your limiters…
If you have the time to invest to run 50-60miles a week…you can definitly put a program with a bit less volume but that will actually focus on 5km and you will improve.
20X2min at 5km effort is not a good idea… start with 5 of them and run fast…
If you want to cut down on 5K time, here’s the plan.
Way too much volume for 5K training. cut it down to 35-40 mpw
run everyday with one day completely off. Long runs no more than 10 mpw. Last 4 to 5 weeks before a race incorporate interval training runs with one real tempo run.
I am glad to hear this kind of feedback from everyone. There was somebody this fall I believe who asked around the same question and I suggested some speed work too. I’m no expert, but I have found you have to run fast to get faster. I had people lambasting me that mileage was king, some were suggestion 100 miles/wk!!! Good luck man and hit the track!
Thanks for all the post! I started the 50-60 when I was training for a marathon earlier in the season… after taht I just kept it up because that is simply where I feel most comfortable volume wise.
I’ll have to give intevals more of a go… oh how I dread the track…
x3 on the Jack Daniels reading, you can read the book over a weekend.
Way too much volume for 5K training.
I’ll call Bullshit on this advice.
It’s not the volume that is his problem, it’s how that volume is structured that is his problem.
My typical weekly training for the 5k is a long run of 12-14 miles, a speed session usally of 2min @ 5k effort w/ 2min recovery jog X 20, and a short tempo run later in the week. The rest is filled with recovery runs and an occasional 10 mile “fun run”
I see no running faster than 5K race pace. Why? That could be your answer right there.
You need to spend some time each week running faster than your goal race pace - typically this is done through some form of structured interval training.
Here you go. Real good article from Running Times:
You might be struggling because you want to continue to go fast in halfs but yet have 5k speed. This is a very tough balancing act. 5k speed is very special IMHO so the training is quite different. 10k and half marathon can co-exist nicely.
Anyway, as everyone suggests you need some intervals. Some great killer workouts from back in my 5k days are 12x200m on the track with jog across the field as rest. You basically go almost all out in each one. Another killer workout is 12x400m. This is with a true interval rest between each. So with your PR pace of roughly 6 minutes. I’d suggest at least 35s for the 200s or faster and 75s for the 400s.
Ladders are fun too 200,400,600,800,600,400,200.
Good luck…
I agree with everyone else, too many miles. To run faster you have to train faster…
I found some really good workouts in Running Times
Track workouts are great. Start with 150m repeats. Build up the first 50m, middle 50 is faster than your mile race pace, and stride out the final 50m. Jog the final 250m, don’t worry about recovery time being too long, you’re not building endurance, you’re building speed. Focus on the middle 50m getting faster on each one you do repeat 6-8 times.
75m build-ups… run-in the first 50m building speed, and the final 25m you should be going as fast as you can without losing form. 3-4 of these with 3min WALKING recovery.
Finish with 3-4 150m at a “fun fast” pace and jogging the remaining 250m
Not a whole lot of milage here, but it’s a good, challenging, fast tempo workout that focuses on speed. Be sure to use the next day as a recovery day.
I agree with everyone else, too many miles. To run faster you have to train faster…
Can you or anyone who has said too many miles actually explainwhy you think that?
And is it impossible for 50-60mpw to co-exist with some faster running?
I agree with everyone else, too many miles. To run faster you have to train faster…
Can you or anyone who has said too many miles actually explainwhy you think that?
And is it impossible for 50-60mpw to co-exist with some faster running?
I’m curious about this too. I do NO speedwork but continually get faster on a lot of miles run between 7:30-8 min. This is def. not the way to train for a 5K specifically but I’m curious if others see this too. My current (this past weekend) 13.1 time is 1:25 but haven’t run a mile faster than 7:30 in probably 7-8 months.