I’ve started to dabble into the ultra running race scene a little. I’ve a dream of one day doing both Kona and utmb. I was surprised to find that ironman has a partnership with utmb.
Further I was surprised to see that utmb now has a feeder system of races similar to that of ironman with its WC.
For UTMB they have 55 slots per feeder race they partner with available that’s divided up exactly how ironman deals out WC slots (d’hondt method).
However in addition utmb also runs a lottery. To enter the lottery you get as many tickets as you have running stones. Stones are gained by running and finish feeder races.
I’m the ultra running utmb world the utmb race is billed as the world championship of ultra trail running.
I just find it interesting that in addition to fast runners getting slots from qualifying they also let in “normals†via a lottery. I don’t see anyone complaining the normals get to race along with the qualified and would love it if Ironman did the same lottery with its WC.
I’ve started to dabble into the ultra running race scene a little. I’ve a dream of one day doing both Kona and utmb. I was surprised to find that ironman has a partnership with utmb.
Further I was surprised to see that utmb now has a feeder system of races similar to that of ironman with its WC.
For UTMB they have 55 slots per feeder race they partner with available that’s divided up exactly how ironman deals out WC slots (d’hondt method).
However in addition utmb also runs a lottery. To enter the lottery you get as many tickets as you have running stones. Stones are gained by running and finish feeder races.
I’m the ultra running utmb world the utmb race is billed as the world championship of ultra trail running.
I just find it interesting that in addition to fast runners getting slots from qualifying they also let in “normals†via a lottery. I don’t see anyone complaining the normals get to race along with the qualified and would love it if Ironman did the same lottery with its WC.
Ironman could basically do that lottery with their AWA program. They could offer the slots to AWA participants who hadn’t already earned one either in order of rank/region or based on a lottery that takes the AWA score into account for the number of tickets.
I’m surprised they haven’t done anything like this with AWA as a marketed benefit yet.
Did you account for the 2022 slots that got rolled to 2024 from races aug 17-dec1.
I imagine a ton of athletes took that.
Also we are starting to beat a dead horse about water down vs now hard to qualify but
Just remember the best people have not been there every year 2002-2019 either they go every few years and the best people 1-2000 will be there that choose to be there for that year.
Ironman could basically do that lottery with their AWA program. They could offer the slots to AWA participants who hadn’t already earned one either in order of rank/region or based on a lottery that takes the AWA score into account for the number of tickets.
I’m surprised they haven’t done anything like this with AWA as a marketed benefit yet.
thats a great idea, I really like it. More tickets to the lotto the higher your status (gold, silver, bronze) or maybe one ticket per 70.3 and 2 tickets per 140.6.
Ironman could basically do that lottery with their AWA program. They could offer the slots to AWA participants who hadn’t already earned one either in order of rank/region or based on a lottery that takes the AWA score into account for the number of tickets.
I’m surprised they haven’t done anything like this with AWA as a marketed benefit yet.
thats a great idea, I really like it. More tickets to the lotto the higher your status (gold, silver, bronze) or maybe one ticket per 70.3 and 2 tickets per 140.6.
Even better - merge it with the legacy program and make it so you get 1 ticket for every IM you’ve done in the past 10 years.
Cozumel is a massive draft fest fraud for most of the qualifiers anyway.
I don’t think any flat course IM should be allowed to qualify into the WC: Cozumel, Florida, Arizona.
Instead I think there should be some intermediate qualifiers to Hawaii, all with draft-resistant tough bike courses. Wisconsin, Louisville, Lake Placid, and Nice had no draft packs of significance, while Cozumel was a travesty. Switzerland seemed to have a fair amount of packs, although there is some climbing.
I think IM could add a lot of status and reduce one-and-dones if there were intemediate goals accessible to 30-40% of the field as opposed to 2%. A “Boston Marathon” tier of IM races, and from those you can select to get into Kona. Most one-and-dones on the fence of doing another one will do the race, look at the gap to Kona, and say fuck it. But if there was a "hey only 30-60 minutes and I can qualify for the “elite” races.
So Penticton, Nice, Wisconsin, Lanzarote, Lake Placid, and another 2-3 races would be the qualifier races to Kona. IM Corp might not like it though since a lot of those aren’t owned/controlled by them… but history is history.
IM would get more people in more races, so they make $$$$. WC chasers would do what it takes, but I doubt the IM corp would change things. It’s still crazy to me that 40 slots of a 2000 person field is significant in marketing. 90% of people aren’t in contention by any stretch, and really 95% aren’t. What if you could get 20-30% or more with qualifier goals to the “elite” races?
(replying to the thread)
And here we are, going from “watered down championships” to “OMG only 1 slot per AG it’s impossible to qualify”.
Jokes aside, I can’t wait for the situation to have somewhat normalised into a predictable WC system (whatever that system will be, including rotating championship/s)
LOL…I immediately thought this
Anyway, I am glad I already KQ and defered to 2024. With current slots you basically win your AG or you are out (maybe podium in some ag is enough)
Cozumel is a massive draft fest fraud for most of the qualifiers anyway.
I don’t think any flat course IM should be allowed to qualify into the WC: Cozumel, Florida, Arizona."
Have you done Cozumel? I have twice, and I would argue that the last two trips along the Caribbean -side coastline are as much a slog as any hill in LP, WI, etc. Also, it is highly competitive with fast Latin Americans targeting that race.
AZ and FL may be easier courses, but the field size is very large. In a year without a male Kona, there will be a lot of fast people at those races.
My gut reaction is that once we get through the races that had deferrals from 2022 into 2024 worlds (e.g., the fall slate), we will get a much better indicator of what the system really looks like with the spring qualifiers.
I agree.
I just wish IM would be more transparent.
Let us know how many men’s slots are available for ‘24?
They can say it’s an approximate number.
Why the secrecy?
I think most of the people that are actually in the hunt for a slot would get it and appreciate it.
I think they want to get their 2024 schedule locked in first before they announce slots for races – and for all we know, we’re going to be adjusting numbers for the fall slate.
850 AG slots from 2023 IM races1039 AG slots from 2024 IM races6 x 50 = 300 AG slots from 2024 IM races resulting from a shifted calendar (assuming the 2024 Nice will be also in October, allowing the August races for qualification)2400 - 850 - 1039 - 300 = **211 **carry-over women AG slots
Don’t forget 2023 and 2024 Legacy slots, about 300.
Middle East Championship in Israel will have same number of slots than “standard†races as last year slots were considerable more.
Don’t forget 2023 and 2024 Legacy slots, about 300.
Middle East Championship in Israel will have same number of slots than “standard†races as last year slots were considerable more.
I didn’t know about 300 legacy slots, estimated to around 50. Could you provide any hint of proof for such a big number?
Don’t forget 2023 and 2024 Legacy slots, about 300.
Middle East Championship in Israel will have same number of slots than “standard†races as last year slots were considerable more.
I didn’t know about 300 legacy slots, estimated to around 50. Could you provide any hint of proof for such a big number?
With the number of 300 I was very conservative, because I assume that in the last IMWC of 2022 IRONMAN has included a good part of the waiting list. But I certainly believe there will be at least 150 Legacies from the 2023 deferral (no one qualified for Kona chose Nice) and at least another 150 qualified for 2024
In 2019 the Kukui category was created where the Legacies and all the remaining wild cards were entered. Well, there were 315 finishers (certainly more at the start). After 2019 the Kukui category was eliminated and the Legacies placed within their respective AG, so the exact number is unknown.
But certainly 300 Legacies are the minimum conceivable number for** two years** of waiting list.
Ironman could basically do that lottery with their AWA program. They could offer the slots to AWA participants who hadn’t already earned one either in order of rank/region or based on a lottery that takes the AWA score into account for the number of tickets.
I’m surprised they haven’t done anything like this with AWA as a marketed benefit yet.
While not a straight lottery, IM has offered extra slots to AWA athletes in the past.
