I doubt Gomez was the instigator. At the time the two predominating theories were that either HW was asked to play that role as part of the UK team, or that he was hoping for a longshot Oly selection by showing his value as a domestique/enforcer for the Brownlees and went waaaay too far.

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ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)

There are many wtsc athletes that play this type of dirty game, that's why they now have rules. It often happens early in the swim, before ppl spread out too much, where it is much harder to be seen and can have a very big impact on the one who pretty much starts the swim with a gut full of water. Ask any of the WTS guys and I bet they can name a few consistent offenders. Ali will be amongst them for sure.

Except in Cozumel, when AB allegedly took his swim cap an goggles to favour his brothers chances. There was plenty of discussion back then.

Yes for sure. Gómez is well known for his dirty racing, and you can see in this video that Wiltshire was playing clean an minding his own race...

What I like most about this thread (and slowtwitch in general TBF) is people's absolute certainty about things. "These people who I don't know would definitely say this"

i love a hot slowtwitch mess, so sure - let's jump in.

i just watched the video and was a bit underwhelmed - based on the reactions here i expected it to be worse. that said it's probably a righteous DQ if it's intentional and the rules should hopefully help to clean up the swim a bit.

to ali's "history," it's irrelevant - you judge the evidence in front of you in the moment, and the referee either decides it's a foul or not.

saying that, i always wonder how exactly "bullying" is supposed to work in pro triathlon. so i'm the hottest hotshot in my little region, i'm in my early 20s and dripping with testosterone, and after a few good continental cups i get to go to a proper ITU race. ali corners me and says, "you'd better back off on the swim, or else." i promise you the first thing my young self says is "or else what?" like . . . really. if it's about meeting in the parking lot after the race, i like my chances against ali. if it's about out-racing me, fine - every single athlete in that race is busting themselves to go as fast as possible anyway, it's not like a basketball game where the point guard is going to refuse to pass you the ball. if you're saying he's often laser-focused, belligerent, rude, whatever, fine. but "bullying" . . . i just don't get it.

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https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

but not everyone is a tough guy like you, are you saying they should learn to be?

As a rookie, you train for a non-contact safe sport and save up your coins to fly to europe to get a chance to race along side people you watch on tv and see in the magazines - awesome! Then you are swimming next to one of the biggest names in the sport, and he doesnt like that so so he Dirty Harrys you - dunking you under water. Will this change how you view fairness in sport?

Does that mean the good guys and fair coaches now have to plan for aggresive moves? water polo training to handle themselves in a self defence situation , maybe some under water martial arts moves? Maybe team tactics will have to include one standover man, probably a surf lifessaver or water polo player, just like pro peloton, he keeps your guy stays out of trouble, stands over the competition and blocks the pack during break aways.

I saw yesterday the "Short Chute Show" and let me tell you that it was no fun at all... you´ve got Tim Don and Macca mocking Mc Queen (Lightning Chase McQueen...do I have to laugh too??) Then even denying that the famous "ducking" did not deserve a DQ, like it is part of racing....Someone well reminded Macca is the Bahrain´s13 manager, so he was kind of defending one of his guys....well, what about Tim Don? I used to like the guy but was no fun really. Seems he was just defending Brownlee because Don is brittish too so finally no one allegued in McQueen´s favour...at least good to hear Wilde saying what he and many others actually thought about the issue.

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Spaniard. Sorry for my english for the sensitive ones :P

Wiltshire deserved a 2 year suspension, not just 6 months...it is funny that nobody paid too much attention at this..but the guy was brittish and was not a real contender..why should he act in this way? Can anybody explain to me why nobody tried to find out if there was money or any deal with the brothers involved to spoil Javier´s race? Because I dont get the point of being a nobody in triathlon and piss Javier off unless you get paid , you are the Brownlees´ lapdog or simply you are a moroon...

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Spaniard. Sorry for my english for the sensitive ones :P

Even the 6 month ban for Wiltshire was over the top for what the offence actually was (which is different from what a lot of people seem to think it was). A 2 year ban would have been completely ridiculous. I think you're letting your partisanship cloud your judgement, something which you accuse everyone else of (or all British people at least!).

ugh, put the gun away, mate.

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https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

He wasn't DQ'd for being "A bully" it was for unsportsman like behaviour, ie porposefully dunking another athlete. Someone used the word bully and you don't like it, we get it, his actions were wrong whatever you want to call it. Maybe let's just say sometimes, in race situations he behaves like a prick, is that better?

jesus, chill out. i've said that i think the DQ was fair given what little evidence i've got at hand. i didn't say that ali was DQ'd for bullying, i said the opposite - and that people citing ali's history of 'being a bully' as justification for the DQ weren't being reasonable. good ref's don't make calls based on your history, they make calls based on what they see in front of them.

secondly, i'm reacting to the people who have said that he has a history 'bullying/intimidation,' and i'm trying to walk through what exactly bullying and intimidation look like in pro triathlon. like, what are some specific examples of stuff that he's done, and what impact has that had on peoples' races?

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____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

It was by purpose, right? I dont care if it was to Javier or Greg Bennett or the last guy of the race....it is unsportmanship and he spoiled Javier´s race that day and the guy was even so cheeky to corner Gomez in front of everyone when the swim pack was on the other side...not just ducking but, cornering, and then stopping him at the stairs...Please show me evidence of other guys doing this s**** and I will agree with you.
Come on all, let´s whitewash this kind of behaviour!!!!!! yes, and I am pissed off with AB because he deserved it but some people are making excuses. You have to learn how to win and how to LOSE

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Spaniard. Sorry for my english for the sensitive ones :P

Now that is up there with the conspiracy about who was on the grassy knoll (got to be John Lennon...silenced subsequently by the FCBI before he published a duet with Yoko about it) and where the fake lunar landings were filmed (which everyone knows was a quarry just up The Valleys from Port Talbot, filmed in between episode's of Dr Who).

Of course it was deliberate by AB. No doubt at all in my book. Just that worse happens in every other Saturday morning OW training session with some of my buddies.
And I've lost count how many kicks I've had at turn bouys over the years, slaps to the chops, goggles knocked off, etc.

One thing about AB. He doesn't suffer fools or slackers, especially on the bike leg - work your ass off like he does if you're in a break away with him, or feck off back to the wheel suckers in the chase group. Those who'd rather it be a gentile soft pedal to get to the run are made to understand very clearly he's not going to tow them around. It's a benefit of being able to speak Yorkshire. Some people don't like it and whinge.

Yes there is contact in the start scrum and the crunch at turn buoys, but is the contact IME is rarely deliberate. Mostly just too many people trying to be in the same place at the same time. It's the deliberate nature of what AB did that's the DQ.

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ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)

Does no one remember the old Lake Placid mass starts? Brutal

That is a rather weak argument to justify your boy's behaviour. Back in my junior days, it was absolute chaos towards the first buoy. Shoving, kicking, clashing, you name it. Not a single time I saw anyone doing what your boy did.

Point of Order: That's not a scrum. A scrum is an orderly process that is systematic following a knock-on. Dudes jostling around would be a breakdown or a ruck.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Ends up we're both correct.

scrum
/skrəm/
noun

1. 
   1.
   RUGBY
   an ordered formation of players, used to restart play, in which the forwards of a team form up with arms interlocked and heads down, and push forward against a similar group from the opposing side. The ball is thrown into the scrum and the players try to gain possession of it by kicking it backward toward their own side.
   
   
2. 
   2.
   BRITISH
   a disorderly crowd of people or things.
   "there was quite a scrum of people at the bar"
   
   • 
     
     
   
   
3. 
   
   • 
     
     
   
   

verb
RUGBY

1. 
   form or take part in a scrum.
   "the two men scrummed down together for University College, Dublin"
   
   

Definitions from Oxford Languages

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ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)

Titan, actually you were right and strobro was wrong. He said what you described wasn't a scrum when clearly the dictionary definition includes what you said ;)

Yes, but I learned long ago that skinny triathletes shouldn't argue with rugby players ;).

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ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)

I would love to know what happens there. "I am not going to tow you." So what? Are you going to let the peloton catch us? There must be something more going on for athletes to start contributing when they are at the limit.

I heard Tommy Zaferes tell a funny story on a podcast or video or something about when he was in a small front group with the Brownlee Bros and Ali and Jonny were not happy with his efforts. He said he was at his limit just trying to stay with the group and at one point he is at the very back of the group with Jonny right in front of him. Jonny lets off the gas a little and lets a gap form between those two and the rest of the front group. Then Jonny accelerates quickly back up to the front group and Tommy was dropped and ended up in no mans land. If you aren't working to their standards, they had ways of getting rid of you. The best part was he was confused by the whole thing because he said he was no threat in the slightest to them once they got to the run.

I'm a 65-70min 2.4 mile swimmer. The year I was closer to 65min, I got the crap kicked out of me and spent a ton of energy just escaping the beating LOL. In that particular swim, I had someone dunk me under the water (their hand hit my back and instead of moving it to the side they continued to push downward instead). The second thing I had happen was someone grabbed a hold of my ankle and pulled backward. Same race, a friend of mine who swims in the 55 min range had her wetsuit UNZIPPED when someone grabbed her leash and pulled (it was before wetsuits were mostly changed to zip down to close instead of up).

So - people can be a-holes. ;)