How much caffeine you taking? Because that could explain both.

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I limit it to one "large" cup a day first thing. I always train early too so nothing out of the ordinary. I don't use any caffeine other than that one cup also. I've found that alcohol ramps my HR and impacts my sleep so do not drink before a training day which keeps me at a couple of beers/drinks on Sundays afternoons only as Monday is my training day off.

If your heart does something strange that has not happened before then why wouldn't you ask a doctor about it? Probably nothing to worry about.......but really don't risk your heart health by relying on a forum for a diagnosis!

Are you using a chest strap for HR? Optical can be wildly inaccurate.

So is my chest strap this time of year. I need to use a dab of electrode gel under each sensor for it to be reliable.

I think this may be the culprit....I use my 945 when running on the treadmill as its my speed/cadence/HR sensor for Rouvy. It works better than a footpod for virtual runs I've found (pace is more accurate). I'm wondering if the HR strap is the solution...I have been using the 945 for HR because starting a run with a "dry" HR strap slips down too much unless uncomfortably tight or if I pre-wet the HR strap band with water first (I use a Coospo HR strap indoors as its BLE vs my Garmin Tri HR strap which is ANT+ and won't connect to my Apple TV box for Rouvy) I'll try using the Coospo HR strap in conjunction with the 945 and see if my HR data normalizes. On the comment above about a Doc....yes certainly I will get a checkup if this irregularity thing continues but I think it may be technology (wrist vs strap). I appreciate everyone's feedback, this is a great website!

Sounds like you're on it.

Our squad uses HR for training and we have everyone wear chest straps because of nonsense optical HR tracings like the one you posted. If you're going to use HR for training or read anything into it make sure you're getting good data.

A simple test for anyone who thinks their Garmin is giving good optical HR data is to go for a run with the watch strap in your hand. Obviously you can't get actually get an optical HR reading like this but you will end up HR data just the same.

First check should always be:

1. How do you feel? Were you light headed? Did you feel out of breath? or any other abnormal physical sensation?
2. Take your pulse the old fashioned way: Fingers on carotid. beats in 6 seconds * 10. While taking your pulse, is it a regular, steady, thump-thump-thump...or are there missing or "extra" beats?

if #1 and #2 are both negative (feel fine, and old skool pulse is normal) its probably the device. Both HR strap and optical ae subject to errors in different ways.

If either #1 or #2 are positive, time to knock it off and call your doc.



For the record, lots of people (almost everyone?) say that. Its true....until its not. Ask Tim O'Donnell.

Chest straps are equally susceptible in dry conditions. Static build-up on tech-wear is particular bad indoors in dry air until the clothing gets wetted with sweat.

Electrode gel can help some....but, the issue is the static in the shirt and interference with electrical HR signals (creating enough signal that looks enough like a heart beat), so Gel is not a cure all in many circumstances.

Yes to both #1 and #2.....I didn't feel like I was in Z6 HR at all, no dizziness, no out of breath.... and did feel my carotid for a few seconds and HR was thumping but no where near 166 bpm. You bring up a good point sir, I was running outdoors with a friend wearing my 945 for HR (no strap).....he's a lot more fit than I and I remember telling him "wow my watch says 172 bpm". I also remember being in "conversational breathing" and at 172 which I have hit running hard before I was gasping for air. Point being if a watch says your at very high HR and you body feels in Z2-Z3 (respiration, carotid pulse etc) its probably junk data. On the flip side if I ever felt dizzy, unnaturally short of breath or certainly felt chest/arm pains its a 911 call.

Glad to hear it. You didn't state your age. But if you are of a certain age (or will be ;-), be sure you know what to look for. Its not always PAIN---it wasn't for me (I was equally healthy....until I wasn't). Strange warmth, tingling, odd lump in the throat, strange sensation that you can't "touch" deep in your chest...anything that goes away with cessation of activity all count equally with classical "Its the big one. I'm coming for you Elizabeth!" pains (left arm, etc).

Some sensations can be confused with the same one from hard exercise. When I look back on the months leading up to my events...I think there were several that I missed, and wrote off as normal off-days.

Exactly, nice practical explanation.

That is why a medical diagnosis starts with History (how you feel) then moves to Physical (examine the body) before considering any test data (your heart rate monitor).

For what it is worth, I do shift work (ER doc) and if I sleep poorly (happens all to frequently) and try to compensate with too much caffeine (I love coffee!) before exercise, then sometimes my heart starts beating super fast and hard, which feels bad and a little scary, and I have to walk until it goes back to normal. Actually, I am not sure it is the walking that helps restore normal rhythm; it might be the self-castigating voice that says "again, you idiot, why?"

In my case, History and Physical support the Test Data: I have a self induced tachydysrhythmia. And the cure is less idiocy.

Y're doomed! Something none of us are particularly good at. :-)

I don’t put the gel, just spit on the strap and rub it in. Feels easier :)

Thought I’d chime in separately tho - maybe it’s related. When I’m super tired / poor sleep, my HR acts strange during a workout. Usually it’s much higher than it should be.

From your screenshots (that don’t show the sudden spikes) it looks like you held an easy pace whilst your HR drifted up throughout. Is this normal for you at that pace? If not, could be a sign of fitness or poor sleep.

when I’m in good shape, my HR will sit at the same level for for 2-3hrs while effort is the same. Seeing a constant rise within a 1hr workout looks wrong for someone who says they’re in great shape.

...."great shape" is relative right? I'm actually not in great shape, my last race was late Aug and I'm just now in base 1 for the Couer D'Alene Ironman next June 2023. I’m really starting to suspect my 945. Below is a screen shot of a recent spin. My watts were pretty constant but I do see some HR blips. These may also have been from coming up out of aero, taking a long drink and not breathing, that seems to do it sometimes. For the gentleman who asked above I’m 53, will be 54 next April. Ill wear my HR strap tomorrow (Garmin tri strap connected to my 945) on a 2.5h spin and report back. As awesome as my 945 is I still question the optical sensors. I’ve been laying in bed wide awake with insomnia and its said I was in light sleep! Thanks again everyone !

It may be your watch, or how you wear it. How tight? It works by measuring the amount of "green" light (a very specific frequency) is reflected back to the sensor. Anything that cause a change in the reflectance CAN be picked up as heart beats. Running is typically bad because as you bounce your watch bounces, and causes changes in the skin contact and reflected green light. With run cadence overlapping HR frequency by a good bit, it can be hard to "ignore" the foot step effect. Changing the location, or tightness of the wrist strap can help decrease this effect. Sometimes people have better luck with the watch on the opposite side of the wrist, or even on the upper forearm instead of the wrist.

The Garmin tri-strap is equally if not worse. I've had 5 of them. The HRM-Run and HRM-Pro are marginally better....but, I've killed one of each of those also---all under warranty. So, its a unreliable source of truth. The other hard part is that you can't directly compare the HR output of the chest strap with the optical measurment....because you have to choose one or the other...and can't record "both". I've been down this road with the Tri Straps, and optical myself. Luckily, I had an old Garmin watch. So, I wore my old watch paired with the strap, and used my Fenix6 optical and recorded simultaneously. I uploaded both of these to Garmin Support and eventually got 3 new HR straps under warranty from that data.

You are trying to do the reverse....which may be harder. And I don't trust Garmin straps as much as I trust the optical these days.

YMMV. Just some thoughts.

PS: The Sleep detection uses the accelerometers to determine how still you are as well as HR. So, a low resting HR, lower respiratory rate, and laying very still can easily be detected as light sleep.

  
I most always wear my watch snug enough while training it "stays put" but not uncomfortable. The back stays flat with my wrist. Sleeping I wear it a bit looser. Based on the info above I'm now thinking I may try something tomorrow as I have a 2k swim, 2.5h Z2 spin and 40mn Z2 run off the bike. Ill get swim HR from my strap/945, then bike/run HR data with strap/945 (left wrist), my vivo active 3 (right wrist) using optical, not connected to the strap then as 3rd data point will also wear a MyZone strap I kept from cross-fit. It logs data for download later. I have not heard you cannot wear two straps an one time so don’t think they would interfere. May sound a bit overkill but I would like to compare the data.

I have worn two straps simultaneously without issue. Dc rainmaker frequently wears more than two. Sounds like a good plan.

Good luck!

Thank you!

Got much better sleep last night, a lot more REM and felt ready to go at 3:30am to get my swim.

Swim HR data, 945 with the tri strap....

Bike HR data with 945 and tri strap...

Bike HR data with vivo active 3 and optical sensor, almost identical to 945....

The spikes in both were sitting up out of aero for a posture break.

Run data with 945 and strap...

Run data with the vivo 3 and optical sensor...

I feel confident the crazy run HR data I saw running the other day was most likely my watch band too loose or something. I normally ramp up with HR when running but especially when not too fit. I just started a build 6 weeks ago and my fitness level in training peaks was 33 then, today its 66 whereas when I did a 70.3 last summer it was 109. I do feel better seeing the HR data from today and appreciate everyone's comments above.

Thanks again,

Tom