I think it all depends on your current fitness level. Have you been swimming, biking or running?

Maybe check out 80/20 endurance dot com

Some good reading there...maybe it could be a good middle ground to your question...

I haven't swum in months because all the pools are closed [still], and I've been pretty inconsistent with bike/run, which is why I think a coach would be helpful--I'm more consistent when it involves someone else's expectations. Distance-wise, I could probably pull off a very slow sprint, but, yeah: I'm hovering near zero in terms of real fitness and could probably use someone to tell me how and where to start.

---

[what Yoda said about trying]

I'll definitely need a coach to correct my swimming form before I start my training.

It's most definitely not essential to have a coach. Whether your performance suffers by going solo, and how much, will depend on your knowledge and judgement, and how much you rely on others versus yourself to judge your progress or keep you motivated.
I'm much happier without a coach. I have friends who feel they need one or they won't know what to do, and won't be motivated to do it.

I went all in on a coach for one season (Peter Reid in 2007--yes, that Peter Reid). I had my best year ever. I trained less in terms of total time but with much more specific and tailored workouts. I supplemented that coaching with a Master's swim group as well to get some technique feedback.

Despite that success, I haven't used a coach since. Two reasons--I've been doing tri for 20+ seasons and endurance sports for 45 so I know pretty much what I need to know and have enjoyed a lot of success without a coach. The second, is the lost of control when you agree to have your schedule laid out for you by a coach was ultimately too big of a negative for me. I need to fit triathlon within the other parts of my life and that is too complicated, generally, to work well with a coach full time....

On the other hand, my son uses a coach and loves it, and is in tremendous shape as a result...

---

Randy Christofferson(http://www.rcmioga.blogspot.com

Insert Doubt. Erase Hope. Crush Dreams.

I have a coach because of time

Training for an IM is a time sucker. With a demanding job (where I have to make decisions all day), kids, and a wife who is a triathlete (and a job) I don't have time to plan training, execute training, evaluate my data, and make the changes to my training based on that data and not question did I make any mistakes along the way.

I want my coach to be my brain so all I have to do is be told what to do and execute.

You probably know this already, but don't discount trying out a book plan first. Lots of good ones out there, at all levels.

for me I coach myself but that's a lot of fun for me. I was a former runner and former swimmer so feel pretty comfortable with what I need for those disciplines. biking is new but different resources have been a big help in getting me up to speed and tbh the reasoning is very similar to what is done in running training

coaches can be expensive which is another drawback for me right now

I've gone both routes. Results were more or less the same I was training 600-700h/yr. Another option could be looking at a consulting arrangement with a coach. Ultimately though the answer will never be known. This is why how you select a coach, if you go that route, is important. You need to fine a coach that fits you and vice versa bc we as coaches all have had an athlete that every email or phone call subtracts 10yr from your life and I'm sure athletes have had a coach where you feel the same. You also need to figure out if you want a coach that's a lifestyle athlete coach or a performance oriented coach. Your training and possibly/probably results will be different.

fyrberd wrote:

Over the last month I've reached out to a bunch of local coaches/teams. .......So far I've gotten nothing but static, despite multiple emails/calls.........I can see on social media that all these coaches/teams are still out there training.........annoyed that no one will respond.

If they won't respond to you now, when you're trying to give them business and revenue, imagine what it could be/probably will be like later. Communication is extremely important. Not communicating when you're trying to give them business sets a poor precedent imo.



Answers:
if you're not going to spend the time to figure it out and want to perform to your utmost capabilities a coach could be the way to go. If you're willing to spend the time having a coach for a season will speed up your learning curve. If you're not too worried about your learning curve, go solo.
If you're not worried about maximizing performance and just want to do well, have fun, not be destroyed by every race then fly solo.
If you're not sure how to start or want some guidance then a coach, one off consultation or consulting arrangement could be the way to go.

Something else to ponder: Even if your coach lived a mile away 90+ % of your communication will be electronic. In person is great for swim analysis, bike fit help, running workouts etc. There is a ton of analysis that can be done by video
This should answer the other questions as well.

---

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

I coach about 15 athletes but I am self-coached. Personally, I do not want to be laser focused. While I will have a pretty structured week, I allow a lot of flexibility to enjoy myself. I also come from a running background and will shift focuses when needed. I think it really depends on what the athlete is looking to achieve too. I can be competitive on less structure and I am not interested in going all in. the athletes I coach are across the board from folks trying to reach their ceiling and some just enjoying life and staying fit.

---

USAT Level II- Ironman U Certified Coach

Agreed that swim coaches are amazing! I've been swimming for over 30 years, though, and every Masters or tri coach I've worked with has really helped me with my form, even after all these years.

---

[what Yoda said about trying]

Like the most recent reply to this thread I am a coach with athletes from various athletic disciplines who coaches himself. After 13+ years of coaching I began to formulate the pros and cons of self coaching vs professional coaching. Also after talking with many athletes over the years about the pros and cons of the two I posted a webinar regarding this very subject.

I think the biggest difference is how the self coached approach the task of managing the planning efforts and the work that goes into analyzing the efforts.

Mark Liversedge of Golden Cheetah fame introduced me to the idea of a sports performance framework and I adapted it to what many self coached athletes go through vs how professional coaches handle the work.

Have a look - No Cost Involved and No Hard Sale coaching pitch here or in the video. Just my professional experience.

Self Coached vs Professionally Coached

Yes, I really feel the "be my brain" thing, especially when it comes to evaluating data. Like, I know how to periodize and what days are best for me for which disciplines, but it would really free up some mental space to have someone do it for me.

---

[what Yoda said about trying]

Totally! I have a couple good books and some of my old training plans that, when cobbled together, make a pretty respectable plan.

---

[what Yoda said about trying]

This is great! Thank you for putting it so succinctly. I think you're right about finding a happy medium with maybe a consultation. And, yeah: the fact that I did a couple marathons, 70.3s, and a century without a coach should maybe tell me that I'll be OK going solo, if need be.

---

[what Yoda said about trying]

This is so helpful! Thank you.

---

[what Yoda said about trying]

I'm a mix of self-coached and using Trainerroad plans. I've been coached in the past, but I've also had 25+ years of doing various athletic/endurance sports so I have a pretty good understanding of what works for me. I also quite enjoy the process of planning out my training, keeping abreast of new training ideas, analysing my data, etc, for me it's part of the fun of the sport. And I think the "fun" part is key - what's kept me training consistently for my whole adult life is having a good handle on what I enjoy doing.

The people I know who get good value/results from having a coach (in my opinion) tend to fall into one or more of the following categories:
- They have technique deficiencies (typically swimming) which need addressing
- They're new to triathlon, or maybe to any kind of training, and have little to no idea what they're doing. Though arguably these people could also do pretty well just following a cheap/free cookie cutter plan at least initially
- They simply have no interest and/or aptitude for planning their own training and just want to be told what to do
- They're experienced but have known tendencies which a coach can help to address. E.g. overtraining, motivation issues, training their strengths not their weaknesses, etc. In these cases I think the relationship with the coach is absolutely critical as they have to have enough trust and respect for the coach to actually listen to them and change their ways
- There's also the podium contenders for whom performance is absolutely everything and are looking for every marginal gain and that includes having a coach.

The people who pay for a coach and don't get value are the ones who either simply don't follow the coaches plans/advice, or who are paying for coaching and getting just a cookie cutter plan and little to no personalisation. I know quite a few in both camps!

So, your list of "people who get or need coaches" makes me realize that I only really need two things: help with determining and then setting benchmarks (biomarkers, distance, etc.) and an accountabilibuddy--someone who makes sure my disorganized ass gets to the track on Tuesday and gets out on my bike before it starts pouring on Saturday. I do have motivation issues (actually, I have scheduling issues), but neither of those needs necessarily means that I need a coach, and, in fact, I can do the first part if I just take a bit more time to self-evaluate. Because you're right that a lot of folks I've known who work with a coach get a "one sized" training plan, which doesn't end up helping them at all. Thanks for the perspective!

---

[what Yoda said about trying]

Just a thought--if this is the issue you present when contacting potential coaches, it might explain the lack of response. I imagine it's pretty frustrating for a coach when a client is inconsistent with training. I also suspect that coaches are seeking clients who will ultimately reflect well on the coach. After all, their reputation is at stake.

My experience--I hired a coach for my first year of tri. Although I did not have aspirations to complete a 140.6 race, I had so much fun that I went for it. I found the guidance of someone much more experienced than myself really helpful that first year, particularly as I tried to figure out the unique aspects of tri (transition, equipment, etc.)

Since then I have been self-coached (although I remain friends with my coach). My assessment was that at my level, the most important component of my training/coaching was consistency, and only I could make that happen.

If I had a specific performance goal that required shaving seconds, I would hire a coach. That's not my goal at this time.

---

No coasting in running and no crying in baseball

That's not coaching.

If you're a coach and you give out cookie cutter plans you are not a coach.

If you're an athlete paying for coaching and getting cookie cutter plans I guarantee you can find a better place to put your money and will see better results.

Now will workouts be the same? Sure some will bc there are only so many ways to write out go for an easy 20,30,70 min run.

Athlete A and athlete B, even if their race schedules are the same, should not be getting the same schedule since their strengths & weaknesses will be different.

---

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Fully agree, just pointing out that sadly those "coaches" do exist and I know people who are wasting their money on them.

I consider myself a highly competitive amateur with 5 years experience. I went with a coach for a couple months at $100/month and I quickly realized that I missed the process of creating my own training plans. I love the learning process and trial and error to becoming a great triathlete. If you are interested in the best results possible and willing to pay for a coach then it is well worth it. If you want to take ownership over your training then dive into all the books you can find from highly successful coaches. Most books less than $20 used on amazon (Friel, Dixon, 80/20, Bolton, etc.).

Fyrberd:

Here’s some guidance based on different goals and tri classification to consider in answering your question:

https://www.palmtreesahead.com/coach-selfcoach

Questions with two polarized answers, like the one you are asking, generally will prove both answers correct over time, just not at the same time. Evaluate whether you are more in the “This” section on the Hired Coach side or the Self-Coached side. That will serve as guidance for your best answer today. Over time though, your updated evaluation will reveal that you faltered, or dropped into either of the “Not This” boxes. In changing behavior, people will most likely switch to the “This” section on the opposite side to reap the benefits of the other solution. To best benefit over a tri career, people should strive to stay in either of the two “This” sections. The green arrows represent the concept in a going back and forth action. Their shallowness represents to recognize the possible impairments of either option and switch before hitting the bottom.

Think of breathing. Which is best, breathing in or out? They both have pros and cons; however, nobody can do these simultaneously. Being coached or coaching yourself is no different.

I was self coached initially up through 70.3 distance. Decided I needed a coach for 140.6. I loved allowing someone else to plan things out and especially adjust things when “life happened” and having a good coach has helped keep me injury free. The most frequent questions I get from my coach are “how did that feel” and “how are you feeling” She’s looking at the data so she can have a pretty good idea but she wants to hear it from the “horse’s mouth”.

Since I’m doing a lot more events including gravel and tri throughout the year it makes it far more complicated for me to train and taper well when events aren’t that far apart. For me, that’s one of the biggest benefits of having a coach. I was okay self coaching focusing on one event. But when I start adding in many events it just got a little complex.

I had 2 different coaches last year, my first proper year of training hard with coaches and had my worst year. There were a number of reasons, both races had tough conditions, there were some pacing issues on my part, but ultimately my run fitness was not what it should have been. Typically I would run lots and not ride as much when self-coached. It was lop-sided, but worked out. I always ran reasonably well. With the coaching there was more of a balance, run volume was reduced, bike volume increased, which meant I got stronger on the bike and as they saying goes, that will help your run. Well with me the only thing that helps me run well is running. So now I'm back to self-coaching. I will work on my bike, but make sure that run volume is the priority as well as having a few run time trials to make sure I'm on track.

I’m a coach and I’ll try to give you the short version to your questions, but first I believe language is important so we should probably start at the top. The title of your post is “Coach vs, Self-Coached.” The important idea to point out here is that you are either coached or not, there is no self-coaching. The most valuable thing a coach provides that an athlete can’t to themselves is a qualified, experienced, objective point of view on the athlete and their training.

The training plan is maybe 20% of my value as a coach. You can then figure out what a cookie cutter coach’s value is from there.

In regards to the swim, my experience is that an athlete gives up a MINIMUM of 10% of the gains they could make swimming alone and remotely versus me coaching them every workout with the team. And I’ve only had one pro triathlete who I worked with get close to that 10%. For most athletes it’s closer to a 15%-20% differential. The bike and run don’t see that sort of difference but there still is one.

There’s plenty of books, YouTube videos, articles on training, forums to get information, but there is a huge difference between that knowledge or information, application of that knowledge (experience) and finally mastery (wisdom) of helping an athlete achieve peak performance.

Hope this helps and if you have any questions, let me know.

Tim

---

http://www.magnoliamasters.com
http://www.snappingtortuga.com
http://www.swimeasyspeed.com

You’ve got it backwards. You need to get in, swim with the stroke you’ve got, build up your strength and conditioning and feel for the water and work on your technique along the way. If you try to start before you are training you won’t have the strength and conditioning in the water to even get to a lot of the technique to help you swim more efficiently.

Tim

---

http://www.magnoliamasters.com
http://www.snappingtortuga.com
http://www.swimeasyspeed.com

Great question. Agree with most of the comments so far. For me the decision on whether to get a coach or not depended on my goals and how they fit into my current lifestyle. I should first say I chose to have an online coach that has proved to be amazing. A little background, I am in my mid 40's, former Div 1 track athlete (400m, 400m hurdler) so my strongest leg in triathlons is obviously the run. Also have a wife and kid who don't take kindly to long abscences on the weekend and a pretty busy professional life, with haphazard shift hours making it hard for me to do my training at the same time every day, sometimes even needing to do my workouts at night. I've been doing triathlons for 20+ years, working my way up to a full IM, but thus far mainly Olympic and Half IM distances. I was self coaching (given my track background, I have a decent idea of interval training and not redlining etc) until about 2 years ago. In the past, I was ranking in the top 5-10 in the races I competed in. Since using a coach, I have been 1st or 2nd in my age group everytime and top 5% in half IM distances!!! My coach is more than just a 'brain' who does my programming. She takes into account my busy work and family life, looks at my performance and tweeks my workouts accordingly so as not to 'overwork' my training. She knows my strengths in running and I think tweeks my workouts to further strengthen them, but also knows my weaknesses (swimming) and makes sure I work on building those. Perhaps the best thing is she tweeks my regimen to prevent overuse or chronic injury. Specifically, I started getting a flare up of the dreaded plantar fasciitis, she throttled back on some of my running, gave recommendations for stretches, icing, strengthening that have kept it from flaring up and has kept my cardio up by adding more cycling. Also given pools are closed (thanks to COVID), she has also added more strength and dryland cord training in exchange for swimming. None of this I could have figured out how to do myself, or might have tried through online research but probably would not have stuck to it or would have done it all wrong. Anyhow, she's worth every penny. But my goals are to keep improving against myself and she has helped me achieve them each year I've had her. I was also skeptical about an online coach who doesn't see you in person to critique and give feedback but she also offers critique through videos as well as nutrition advice/help which I have yet to take advantage of. In short, this online coach works for me. I'm sure there are plenty out there that might not. Not sure a book or those canned programs would do it for my specific needs and goals. In person coaching or team coaching would be different but my work schedule doesn't make that a realistic option. Self coaching, after ~18yrs of doing it, only got me so far. S no regrets about online coaching from me. Hope that helps. Good luck.

Why do you need a coach for swimming? Read Sheila Taormina's book "Swim Speed Secrets". It'll take one night and you'll have all the info you need to practice in the pool.

Exact same for me. Most people are endurance junkies and like reading and learning about the sport. At the end of the day, no one knows yourself better than you do. Unpopular opinion that coaches are way overrated and exploit those willing to overspend on anything.

I like to think that I am well read on the subject of physiology; at least enough to make this endurance sport hobby a lot of fun. Regardless of what I think I know, I have worked with a fantastic triathlon coach for the past year and I find his input into my activities invaluable. I am often, all by myself while in the water, or pedalling my bike, or out on a run but having a coach, for me, means that I am never alone in my journey.

I have gone years, if not decades, pushing through personal and professional aspects of life, refusing to ask for help or reaching out for guidance. That for me, was a fault that I repeated too many times; a fault I’d rather not repeat while investing in something that is supposed to be fun and rewarding.

I would think swimming which is so reliant on technique would be the most important element requiring a coaches feedback.

A coach's perspective:

The two most important things that a good coach provides are objectivity and experience/context


Objectivity:

Left to their own devices, athletes almost always return to previous bad habits. This is true across all elements of training - biomechanics, recovery, 'intensity discipline'. The path back into that pattern that has been 'grooved' is always present & it leads to things like athletes cognitively agreeing with a particular intensity distribution but in practice, moving closer and closer to that every day grind that feels like it's 'doing something' or, ignoring signs of needed recovery due to that subjective voice in the back of your head reminding you "but your competition is out there training right now". It's very tough to make objective, smart decisions when you are literally the subject of those decisions.

Experience/Context:

Full time Coaches are exposed to significantly more data & experiences than any self coached athlete could possibly accrue. Experiences such as, 'I had an athlete who was a lot like you that started where you are now and achieved his goal of Kona Qualification.' If I have access to all of the data along that entire transition, I have access to a journey that I can compare your own progression against over time & iteratively make better & better decisions for each subsequent similar experience. As a coach is exposed to more and more athletes, the power of this contextual knowledge can't be overestimated.

####

At risk of obvious bias, without access to the above, IMO, it is very tough for most self coached athletes to 'make it on their own'. The path is full of legitimate self-doubt that comes from those questions...

"Am I truly doing the 'right' thing, or is my subjective bias causing me to make poor decisions?"

"Do I truly have the knowledge/context to plan for situations/levels of fitness that I am yet to experience?"

An honest answer to the above questions will lead the athlete in the right direction.

---

Alan Couzens, M.Sc. (Sports Science)
Exercise Physiologist/Coach
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Alan_Couzens
Web: https://alancouzens.com

I agree that swimming would utilize the coach best - but if you're just aspiring to be a decent MOP or even FOP (but not absolute top tri swimmer), most people can get there on there own through hard work even without a coach.

I do think there's a myth about swim coaches being able to turn nearly anyone into a competitive-grade swimmer that would crush the swim splits on triathlon, mainly because that's the level of swimming you see from 11 and 12 year old girl swim teams. People think, wow - if these 12 yr old girls can kill it, there is NO reason I shouldn't be killing it - must be the coach!

And then you find out that this 12 yr old competitive squad is NOT just a squad of randos. It's literally a grouping of the most talented, most motivated, and most dedicated kids to swimming in the entire area. It even self-selects - if you're not up for hardcore swimming day in day out, you're not going to continue.

Also, you can also go check out the local YMCA swim squad which does NOT only select the most hardcore swimmers - and these kids are still arguably wayyyy more motivated and even talented to swim than most AG triathletes. And yeah, they look like how normal 12 year olds would swim.

I'm MOP edging on FOP in the swim segments in local aquathon races (about 31 minutes for 1.5 km, 30% percentile in a 1.5 km swim - 6 km run aquathon with 209 finishers), but I'm in the slowest lane of the triathlon club swim squad, and I can't stay with most open water swim groups around my city without putting assistance. I'm also near the bottom in most open water swim races in the city (11th out of 13 in my latest race which was 14 km). I want to become a good swimmer (and orienteer) with running (and biking) as my secondary sports.

I went overambitious today trying to follow an open water group which is mainly composed of triathletes (rather than life-long swimmers). They do Ironman races, and I know one who even does Ultraman and Enduroman. My friend told me that the group is at slightly above 2' pace so I believed that I might be able to stay on the pack's feet without using assistance. It turned out that, after 1.5 km, I couldn't stay on their feet. I ended up putting on assistance trying not to lag behind so much, but after 5 km, I got fatigued so much that even with fins on I couldn't keep on his feet. I believe that the only reason why I can't stay on a triathlete's (who did not have a swimming background and could only barely swim 50 minutes in a pool 6 years ago, as reported from the news) feet is that my swimming technique is really crap. Also after 7.5 km swim the whole of my back was completely sore, along with my upper arms. I don't know if it is normal or if it means I have problems in my swim technique. (I actually did a 14 km swim race this January but my effort level was much lower to avoid burning out before the finish)



I want a swim coach such that she can bring me to MOP or FOP in marathon swimming races.



May I ask what's the difference in motivation between most AG triathletes and YMCA swim squads? I'm definitely an AG triathlete and I also do standalone swimming and running races as well.

I think you mentioned it before, but exactly how much (when pools were/are open for you) are you swimming a week to target marathon swims?

That's a totally different beast than AG triathlon swimming, even for IM swims, which a good swimmer can do in an hour or less.

Also, if you're swimming with enduroman-type triathlon swimmers, these are probably good swimmers who swim a LOT.

I do agree though that you should have plenty of room to improve both on technique and fitness as I think in the other thread you mentioned you're a pretty new swimmer, and as well, it's very realistic to get out of the BOP of a non-elite trisquad swimgroup with proper training although you do have to be patient here too - I was stuck there for nearly 2years, and another 2 years just to get to 50% in tri swim races. Only after that did I get to the top 30% and now 15-20% consistently.

Depending on the race, but I commonly swim 15 - 20 km / week to prepare for a 10 - 15 km marathon swim. (I still need to make time to train for my run and orienteering).

My friend, who broke the record of Enduroman last year, is now training for a 45 km round-island swim this October. I originally want to do that as well next February (he prefers hot water swim but I prefer cold water swim) but I've now put it on hold due to cost reason, and now given the interruption in training I don't think I can do it early next year anyway. He has a coach to write him training plans but the coach is not a swim coach. He does not currently have a swim coach. I am looking for the other way round. I don't need a coach to follow my training but I definitely need a swim coach to make sure that my swim technique is good enough such that my self-written training plan won't get me injured while I progressively increase my intensity.

I think you are swimming guys too fast for you if you are trying to keep up with a record breaker.

..
The funny thing is,the record breaking guy he is talking about is exactly the guy he should be listening to as he trained himself from an average Ultraman swimmer to a guy who only swam 16 minutes slower than one of Australia's best Ultra-swimmers across the Channel in the Arch to Arc. He won't listen though.

Thanks for this. Ironically, I've been a swimmer for about 30 years and [until March] a Masters regular, so it's always been the bike and the run where I need the most help. But yeah, I think I can definitely keep putt-putting along with all my experience, but a coach would probably help bring my bike and run down to something less terrible and closer to my potential peak. So now I just need a coach to actually return my messages!

---

[what Yoda said about trying]

This is great! I like the idea of finding someone who can help you "improve against yourself" because they know your weaknesses. I know for me it's easy to go to Masters 4 times a week and only bike twice, when really those should be reversed. But without someone to *tell* me to get on my bike, it can be more fun just to keep swimming. This gives me lots to think about, so thanks for your comment!

---

[what Yoda said about trying]

The whole idea of an objective observer is something I haven't thought a lot about, but you're right that it's important. I do tend to fall down the rabbit hole of self-doubt and "I never get any better at this and what am I doing and this is a waste of time", which hopefully a coach of some kind could short circuit. Thanks!

---

[what Yoda said about trying]

Wholeheartedly agree with the above.

As a full-time coach, it is far easier to make objective, rational decisions around the training of my athletes (and lack thereof when needed!) then it ever has been due write training for myself. Even when full cognisant of the likely implications of certain decisions, truly ‘believing in yourself’ and making wise decisions when it comes to coaching yourself is often much more difficult in practice than it is in theory!

---

Coach at Scientific Triathlon
http://www.scientifictriathlon.com

Spoken like a true triathlete...

"That is why you fail."
Master Yoda

---

#swimmingmatters
Laugh hard. Run fast. Be kind.
The Doctor (#12)

If you get a coach a good and actually listen to them; you will go faster and be hurt less....... I have a coach off and on that I dont listen to much and I never really achieve my true potential and I get hurt a lot. Dont be me.

---

2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz

Interesting blog from cyclingapps looking at research on this question.....https://www.cyclingapps.net/...here-any-difference/

Pros and cons: http://www.ahmadfahmy.com/...ach-vs-self-coaching

N of 1 experience: https://bikes-n-stuff.com/...s-tailored-training/

I absolutely do not agree with the bold marked part and do not think that every one who is coaching themselves (yes I use the expression) is not doing that "qualified, experienced and with an objective point of view".

Contrarily to your former post, I absolutely agree with this remark. In fact it is an opinion you hardly ever see. It seems to be widely (and wrongly) agreed upon, that firstly you have to get your technique right and than build up volume. From my own experience I know that this is not true. I have (and still do, but less) always struggled with my breath, and had during swimming mostly one idea in my head: "when can I finally stop this session, hang on the wall and get my breath back" such that I could not focus on any technique. I kind of gave up and only swum maybe 2-3 times a week with 1500m or 2500m per session.
Since last year (after 13 years of "swimming": yes also with coaches) I started another regime: I swim more, and started with 40*50 as a session and at the moment I do 60*50-ies, with a 1000m additional with pullbuoy to make it 4000 in a session. It costed some time to get used to it, but at the moment it is getting a normal workout and since I'm getting stronger, I can now have more focus on the technique.

This made me laugh on a Monday morning. Thank you.

---

[what Yoda said about trying]

This is great! Thanks.

---

[what Yoda said about trying]

Yeah, I tried two marathon coaches, and they both agreed - in their own separate ways - that I was un-coachable, because I did NOT listen to them

Example:

Saturday

Rand: I ran 7 miles, when I was supposed to take the day off
Coach: What'dya do that for?
R: It was nice out
C: Oh, okay. Take tomorrow off then
R: I'll try

Sunday

R: I ran 8 instead of 6, well, instead of taking the day off
C: You ran 7 yesterday, no?
R: Yep
C: Are you trying to hurt yourself? LOL
R: No, I don't think so
C: How do you feel?
R: Pretty good
C: How's the hamstring?
R: Yeah, I think I figured that out! It's from the way I was stretching while hanging laundry on the line. I made some adjustments, and it's fine.
C: You got a step-ladder? LOL You're going to take tomorrow off, right?
R: I'll try
C: ~sigh~

---

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

You might be "self-directed," but it isn't coaching. If you don't agree with it, then you don't understand coaching. I think on this thread Alan expanded on this idea more than I did, but any experienced, qualified coach would tell you the same exact thing.

Tim

---

http://www.magnoliamasters.com
http://www.snappingtortuga.com
http://www.swimeasyspeed.com

to me this feels like sounds like bad coaching/communication. if you feel good and want to run more, then why the heck not. if you needed a day off or were feeling run down then you wouldn't be adding extra miles anyway. now if you were running extra and failing your other workouts then it's time to reconsider your extra runs

There are many reasons I can think of to NOT stray from a training plan. Also there is much to be said about the value of coach athlete communications and coaches listening to an athlete "who" feels up to running/training more but there is always a voice in my head that says "wait for it...."

Coach Rob PositivePerformanceCoaching.com

I didn't read all the replies, but figured I'd put in my perspective here. Everyone's is different. I was searching ST for threads about coaching because I was just going through the process of determining if I wanted to hire a coach or not. I have been doing endurance sports for at least 10 years. I did a decent job early on with creating my own training plans and following them to make some pretty large improvements in fitness (I was sedentary beforehand, no youth sports). Ultimately, my decision came down to time.

I realized that I need help. Not specifically in training, but with having job, working spouse, kids, home, training, there were just too many demands on my time that I was not able complete all tasks within a week. I considered hiring out help; gardening, house cleaning, babysitting, to name a few. Any of those would have been an investment similar to coaching, but coaching comes with the allure of having better performances (and if I'm going to invest time into training, I want the best performance).

So, the primary reason I invented (it could be false hope) to select coaching was that I think I will gain the most use of my time with a coach for the money invested. My training will probably be much more specific, resulting in actually recovering and not feeling tired all the time, giving me more energy to play with kids and do home maintenance. I will not spend an hour or 2 on the weekend looking through my training, going over my ATP, creating my workouts, etc...I will be more confident in my scheduled training so that I don't second guess myself and spend 30-60 minutes in the morning trying to determine what I should do instead of the workout previously planned. My overall training hours might also decrease, while I still improve in fitness, giving me more time for life.

The final added benefit, as I told myself, was that I might actually devote some extra time to work if I am more efficient with training. This could lead to accomplishing slightly more, which might lead to financial benefits that I could miss out on if I am sneaking off to make-up the workout I missed before I changed my plan in the morning.

Do my own thing. I wouldn't call it self coaching, as coaching implies outside feedback.

Why? I look around at the guys on my bike team that do have one. I think it comes down to cost, if you can afford a goooood coach that really digs and looks at what you do and adjusts versus just tossing stuff at you to do.

My random worthless sample is that I'm faster, on less volume, than all my teammates on LESS volume. Some of them are a few years older than me, sure. But I can race masters now and know of plenty of dudes older than me that are much faster.

Either I'm really gifted in genetics or I halfway know what I'm doing.

I prescribe to the having more time (and energy) by paying for other household tasks like house cleaning or yardwork.

Coaching, working joes with kids may optimize the time you do have.........but you're not gaining any time off really or added time for volume, whichever you need or want.

I would say hire a coach if you don't have kids (or you do and get a "pass") and are doing something that needs careful attention..........like a build up to a full IM or full marathon. Bike? I don't really see how I could physically injure myself outside of burnout and degraded performance. Otherwise, for an average joe without a current race.........it's just all the sweetspot I can eat in a "periodic" volume strategy. Have a week for more volume.....reduce intensity. Don't? More sweetspot and a few intervals. Race time? Couple weeks out start priming the VO2 engine up a bit for a RR or a cross race. Not rocket science really.

I just sort of coach myself, but I am not as hard core about the sport as most of you guys probably are. I only train for an average of 7 hours a week with my peak weeks topping out at only 11-12 hours. I only do up to the 70.3 distance races, have only been the overall race winner once, and my highest USAT score is just a 103.5.

I have been doing the sport for 6 years. My 4th year I did have a coaching scholarship. I expected to see huge gains working with a coach but I didn't progress any faster with a coach than I did planning my own season and training. Towards the end of the coaching period I was already noticing things that I felt needed attention that the coach was not address and so I looking forward to planning my own workouts again so I could customize them to the things that I felt needed to be worked on. My first day without a coach I felt like the first day out of school at beginning of each summer. I was free from structure from an authoritative figure and free to explore and make discoveries at my own pace. With the Coach I was doing about 30% more volume that what I do on my own. Tapers for races seemed to disappear with a coach and at the end of what were supposed to be rest weeks I often felt more fatigued than I did at the beginning of the week. I had a very positive experience with my one-year coach and would recommend him to anyone but feel that with guys who are twenty something years old who have been in the sport for less than 5 years being certified coaches that as a Masters Athlete my life experience suits me just fine to be able to put together a training plan. I PR'd at every race I did my first 4-1/2 years in the sport and continue to get faster into my 6th year in the sport and even with being a gray haired guy.

A coach can teach you things but you have to do the work. You can do the work without a coach and so at the cost of coaching I will stick with being self coached.

As so many people have eluded to it comes down to a lot of things. I personally do like having the flexibility, and low pressure of being self-coached (plus its free), and as some people said it can be uneasy to completely sacrifice your schedule to a coach but that doesn't always need to be the case. As someone who coaches a team of 20 athletes I think the question is more about finding the right coach, I would personally feel coaching myself but work with a coach that I really like as they understand I know stuff too and will listen to my input. But the biggest benefit for me is if you have a busy lifestyle or just an awful week you don't need to think about writing a workout, you just go out and do it when otherwise you might not have scrapped the workout. Also just an objective 3rd opinion is really useful if you are too hard on yourself from time time like myself