I am a little unsure of the price tag on the Creo. But I will say, as someone who commutes 30 miles to work when I ride in, I would do it more often if I had an ebike (I think at least, I have never been on a high end one) But I have 0 interest in a 40 lb beast (and that is before I put on fenders lights bottles ETC) as I also have to take it up a few flights of stairs. I do think the Creo would be an awesome bike for my commute.
Now 16k and 10k for the for the models. Not worth anywhere near that to me. But if they were say 2,500 (which at some point they likely will be) I could see it.

It's so you can brag about how far you ride rather than buying a smaller chainring.

I also question in general who "reasonably priced" E-bikes are for. And I mean the ones that look like cruisers but cost ~$6k. Most dedicated roadies will stick to traditional road bikes, and most novices probably don't want to shell that out as an intro to the sport. Then there's people like my girlfriend, an intro cyclist who would love an e-bike to keep up on long rides, but wouldn't pay $4-5k more than the cost of her current bike just for that luxury.

There's not one. Training is not what an e-bike is for.

But a friend went on vacation this summer to ride the Alps. His wife is a cyclist, but not a strong cyclist. She was able to rent an e-bike and enjoy the cycling vacation alongside him the whole way. If not for the e-bike, one of them would have missed out.

I used to be strongly anti-ebike (still am on dirt), but as RA erodes my knees to the point that I can no longer put pressure on them after 30 or 40 miles (on a good day), and long climbs or steep hills are slowly becoming no fly zone (I live in the Rocky Mtns, so this limits my ride options), I can see where this might appeal to some. But at $10k, I'll just limit my rides to my trusty old cervelo for now.

in short, to answer your question... rich old people with bad joints who want to ride longer distances or do hills.

The people that I know that own to 4k-6k e-bikes basically know that they purchased a scooter that they have to pedal.

They are not technically allowed on the urban trail system my city has, but most people can't tell the difference between it and a bike. So in their eyes, it's more versatile than a scooter that is comparably priced.

Here's at least a small part of the potential market:


https://www.velonews.com/...elong-cyclist_470738

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"I'm thinking of a number between 1 and 10, and I don't know why!"

e-bikes are for everyone EXCEPT people that aim to train hard on bikes. That's like literally everyone except us triathletes and our roadie/MTB peers.

There's a range of e-bike assist as well - you can go from a 80+lbs motorized scooter equivalent that you would pretty much never pedal on its own for propulsion, to much lighter versions that give you assists but still require decent input.

This is a great reason for an ebike, and one that I can relate to. My wife also cycles and does triathlon. She often bikes with me and can keep up on flat terrain by staying in my draft. However, throw hills into the mix and she has a really tough time.

We did a trip to Colorado this summer and rented an ebike for her. Perfect - she could keep up and I actually spent a lot of time drafting off of her. She really enjoyed being out front and setting the pace for change, rather than having to look at my back side the entire ride ;) If she turned up the power too much, I couldn't keep up. And the battery lasted surprisingly long, although she had it set on lower power so she wouldn't drop me.

except that's not accurate at least for mtb peeps. We'll use the Pivot Shuttle to session various aspects/features of a trail before an event/ after a workout/ on recovery days. Don't believe me? ask Annika perhaps

My Father-in-law signed up to ride Ragbrai with his sons. He ended up with some pretty serious health complications, but really wanted to be able to do the ride with them, so he got an e-bike and did it.

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
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Don't have one, but my bike commute is only about 11-12 miles each way. If I was going farther on a daily basis, I would definitely switch over. I do a lot of my commuting on the Washington Old Dominion trail (west of Washington DC) and as it is now, I see fellow bike commuters with ebikes a couple times a week. Especially when the price point drops, I can see ebikes becoming a fairly common option for commuters.

The ebikes that I have ridden stop adding power at speeds above 20 mph.
And the bikes themselves are heavy, not very aero and lacking in good gearing.

I would find this extremely frustrating on descents and extended flat sections.

My current commute would take about 10 minutes more (each way) on an ebike.
It would also cost an extra $1,000/year.
And would not provide good training.


Who would prefer ebike over a real bike?
Answer- people who are less interested in training and physical activity, and who have more time and money available to them.

Not everyone wants to suffer just so they can enjoy a ride.

I think it would be pretty cool to hop on a e-bike at 6:30 am, do a 80 mile ride, go explore all the fun places to ride in my area, climb over some big hills and descend, and be back home by 10:00-10:30 am. I still got in some decent pedaling, and I don't feel like I need a 3 hour nap afterwards. I can go about the rest of my Saturday and do other things.

missing the fact that a vast majority of people who own bikes arent racing, or even training, e-bikes are awesome

When they start showing up on our local training rides,then we may have a problem! No Motorized Vehicles on bike path,Another potential problem.

Precisely. Riding bikes is fun. People buy ebikes because riding them is fun.

The current print version of Velonews has an interview with Mike Woods. He talks about using an e-bike in order to get in some easy days while living with all of the climbs in Andora.

Then there's an article on electric mountain bike racing with comments from Christoph Sauser and Xavier Marovelli.

And another article on "performance road category" e-bikes.

I can see the point of getting one for commuting. Otherwise, you're riding a scooter with an electric vs. a smokey 2-stroke gas engine. The electric mountain bike racing seems especially whacky. Sort of motocross lite.

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"Human existence is based upon two pillars: Compassion and knowledge. Compassion without knowledge is ineffective; Knowledge without compassion is inhuman." Victor Weisskopf.

I don't have one but I would consider getting my wife one so she could keep up with me on rides. And I would also consider getting one for myself for my bike commute to work. It is horrendously hot and humid here and we don't have showers, so it would be great to enjoy a nice ride in by bike instead of in car traffic jams and show up not drenched in sweat for the next hour. Pedal when you want, e-power when you don't. Loads cheaper than burning gas and/or a Tesla.

My training partner and I were doing a run bike run bike run bike workout at the Great Dismal Swamp (16 mile loop) there was a guy riding a R5 and his wife was motorpacing him on her E-bike. He rode with us for a few miles and said it allowed her to ride with him without having to work hard, plus the added training benefit for his training.

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All I Wanted Was A Pepsi, Just One Pepsi

Team Zoot, Team Zoot Mid-Atlantic

Yep, both great examples. Will be part of healthy lifestyle and more of a desire for people to be outside. There will be pockets for competition integration for sure. Wife, kids, and I did an e-bike tour of Asheville and everyone loved it. Everyone can get up to the Grove Park Inn and enjoy the view but still enjoy the active side of riding along river on the path.

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I miss you "Sports Night"

Yeah...it's kind of like golf. There are a lot of people who like to play golf but simply are not capable of walking 18 holes...or if they did, they would get fatigued to the point where it would be detrimental to their golf game and they wouldn't enjoy it as much. Introduce the golf cart...and now more people can just focus on actually playing golf without the portion that they don't really care about...the walking.

Or the golf cart allows someone who is able to play 18 holes walking a much easier way to play 36 holes in one day, or maybe 36 holes on back to back days.

Some golfers are super serious...insist on walking and carrying their bag whenever possible. Play by all the rules, and putt their ball into the hole every time. If that's your cup of tea, because you are golfing with the intention of playing in sanctioned tournaments...then that's fine. Just realize that most people don't take golf that seriously, play by the rules *loosely* and are more than happy to take a gimme when their putt ends up 2.5 feet from the hole.

Not answering your question directly, but e-bikes in general are selling more than traditional bikes in arguably the country that has the most bike riders per citizens, the Netherlands. They are selling more adult ebikes than adult bikes now, and the revenue from ebikes far, far, outstrips traditional bikes.

This article is very interesting, and surmises that the mechanical adult bike will go the way of the Dodo bird, with the majority transitioning to ebikes. I live in an area with a very large employer nearby and I see people commuting on ebikes to work on a daily basis. Parking at the employer happens to be $700 a year. I think it’s great that people who always commuted by car are now on ebikes.

https://www.forbes.com/...ts-now/#50bea2c2e4aa

When Will E-Bike Sales Overtake Sales Of Bicycles? For The Netherlands, That's Now

There are now more e-bikes sold in The Netherlands than non-electric bikes. But let me qualify that. According to new market statistics 40% of all bicycle sales in The Netherlands last year were e-bikes. However, when you strip out of the total the 11% of all bicycle sales that account for childrens’ bikes then the majority of adult bikes sold were e-bikes.

This tipping point is even more impressive when you see the growth between 2017 and 2018 – the e-bike market grew by 9% in a single year. This is the steepest increase to date.

According to figures from Dutch industry organizations RAI Association and BOVAG more than 1 million bicycles were sold in 2018, with revenues of €1.22 billion of which €823 million were from e-bike sales. The average price of a bicycle in the Netherlands is now €1,207. In 2011 the average was €734, when e-bikes were 15% of bicycle sales in The Netherlands.

In a research note, BOVAG and RAI Association state that electric bikes are starting to become the “new normal” in The Netherlands.

And here: https://www.bicycling.com/...riding-trails-again/

Plus, wasn't there an ex-pro mountain biker who was partially paralyzed who has been able to get back on the trails with an electric bike? I can't find that article right now.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

The Orbea Gain starts at $2500 MSRP with flat bars, $3000 in a drop bar configuration. I've seen the carbon Di2 version (~25 lbs) on sale for less than $5k.

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"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"

Older cyclists

I was chasing a lady who must have been 75 up the col du Lautaret. Couldn’t catch her


Got to the top and commenced bitching and my friends sloughed at me and said it was the bianchi e bike

Extending her riding life

I've seen good and 'bad'(maybe bad is not bad, is just less good).

I've met a BIG unit in the Alps who used an ebike to commute amd lived up a mountain so was not ever going to do 3000ft+ climb each eve in a regular bike. But it got him out doing some stuff, amd not in a car. Perfect use of an ebike i think.

Also an older lady out on the hills on a Spesh full susser ebike - said it kept her active and coule still ride off road with her husband. And had on the day we met, ridden from home. Again perfect, no car journey involved, keeping her cycling longer and older and enjoying it.

My 'beef' about ebike is with all the mtb ebikes bought as +1 and then put in a truck or car and driven to trail head or trail centre... and being marketed as 'saving rhe planet'. Nope thats damaging MORE of the planet as the truck is still used and there's the extra manufacturing impact anf especially the dirty dirty DIRTY world of making batteries.

I came here to say commuting, but you covered that.

I wouldn’t say the target is people who are “training” when it comes to electric assist road bikes. It’s more for those who enjoy cycling but either don’t want to put in the effort on every hill, can’t put in the effort, or older people who want to keep up with those who they ride with.

They aren’t targeted toward “training” just basic fitness.

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Its for Patrick Lange so he can come off the bike with Wurf, Frodo, Brownlee In Kona.

My first experience with an e-MTBer was a complete caricature. The dude had brought an electric chainsaw out on the trail and was cutting down trees. Not just doing trail maintenance and clearing overhanging branches, completely changing the character of the trail. We had words.

Despite that I try to be accepting of our new e-future.

We aren't exactly a cycling team, more like a bunch of guys in our 50's and early 60's that get together a couple of times a week to ride 25 to 40 miles and have a good time.

One of the guys is in his late 70's and a Viet Nam vet that has been riding with us for 20 plus years and was a very strong rider. As the years have passed Manny has become a burden. We were constantly waiting for him and worried something had or would happen. He kept at it and we kept quite, but we were worried.

Manny now has an E-Bike and he is right back up there in the group, pulling at times, and bitching about the pace, just like 20 years ago.

Better for him, better for us.

There is definitely a market and a need for this technology at all levels of riding. It just has to be used correctly.

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"...the street finds its own uses for things"

I passed a couple in their mid to late 80s on a couple of ebikes climbing Huez last month. I thought it was pretty cool that they were able to enjoy something like that at their age.

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Dan Mayberry
Amateur a lot of things, professional a few things.

Family cycling vacation in the Swiss Alps. My son caught me on the early switchbacks of a 30 min climb using “Cruise mode,” but I went with him... launching a viscous attack on my roadie as we approached the summit. He required “Turbo mode” to respond. He got the KOM, and I puked. Great fun.

Bunch of hand wringing and denying facts on this very topic over on Bikeforums.

Someone who hasn’t trained to learn how to handle 400 plus watts around other people isn’t someone I want to share a path or line with (assuming the full 350w assist plus another 150w input).

When you grew into it, you rode enough to learn to handle it.

Nobody needs 350w assist on a Trek road ebike. It only takes 170w manually to go 20mph flat and 200w gets you up almost anything. Albeit slowly.

It’s a toy, period.

Any real commuter will have something with less assistance, cheaper, and lighter to carry. That’s not a toy, but transportation.

No different than the children, oops, adults riding those one wheel electric things.

I have a Copenhagen wheel I use occasionally for commuting. Shaves 8-10 min off my 1 hr commute. It's great to climb the bridge I cross at 32 kph instead of 20. It averages about 38kph on the flats. I still arrive with my shirt soaked with sweat but it smooths out the efforts. Good to use on a Fri before a big ride on the weekend. Not sure why I'd want less assistance.

but I went with him... launching a viscous attack on my roadie as we approached the summit. He required “Turbo mode” to respond. He got the KOM, and I puked. Great fun.
That is great stuff right there. I had a chance this month to go back to France for the first time in 24 years and had some great experiences but also a number of e-bike experiences. When I was getting ready to ride the col du Glandon, Telegraph, Galibier loop out of Bourg D’Oisans, there was a bike shop across from my hotel and they had a high-end Pinarello road e-bike. I was really tempted to try it out because I was pretty unsure about my fitness for the loop. I should have done it. My amazing experience across the valley, up the Glandon (then down) and over to the Telegraphe turned a bit rough 8K from the summit of the Galibier. I was forced to admit I was old and had planned poorly when the wheels came off. For the last 5K I stopped at each one of the K markers that count down. It turned out to be a nine hour day for which I was really unprepared. That ebike would have made it more fun.
Then, a few days later I was climbing the Col D’Agnel (after doing the Izoard) and I knew I was going to have a few days off from riding when my wife flew in and we had to do more traditional tourist stuff. I went back and forth with one guy until I kicked it up with 5K to go and really started climbing faster. I caught a few people and then looked up to see what looked like a father and son a switchback above me on mtbs. I thought, “I can catch them before the top.” I started to close and they looked back and road away from me. It was pretty funny to me when I saw the skinny little boy. He and his dad looked like he had a great time.
That got me thinking and when my wife suggested we should rent her a bike, I was a bit shocked but figured it was worth a try. The shop rented us the most powerful motor/battery and we proceeded up the Monte de Semnoz out of Annecy. It was really odd to be hammering along on the climb and look back and see my wife smiling and just happily following me. (She is not a cyclist.) Then when her backside could not take the seat anymore, she would ride up ahead and stand for a bit until I passed before catching up with me. She almost made it to the top before the battery died and that bike was totally unsuited to the road ride we did—huge 2.6 inch knobbies and dual suspension with a short stem. She could not even get out of the saddle.
I think ebikes can bring people to cycling that are not willing to suffer but might enjoy the ride; something between the hard-core rider and the hundreds of folks I saw on motos in the Alps. I’d rather get passed by a guy on an ebike than a loud, aggressive moto.
When I was looking at ebikes after I got back, I was a little surprised how much ‘racers’ really hate the idea. One asked, “Why would you want to ride faster than your fitness allows?” Only a young, stud who can put out 350 watts up a hill would ask that. It was clear he felt his ego and place in the pecking order was being threatened, but I was happy to see that there were far more folks who saw the bikes as a way to enjoy cycling in a different way. I can definitely see myself on one soon enough for all sorts of reasons and would love to have one now to try and tempt my kids to come out with me. I’m sure they would love to put it to Dad without having to train for hours and hours. The cost and technology need to change and evolve, but they are definitely the future.

This lady was hard. You could tell she would have smoked me in her 50s

I have two use cases that I'd like to have an e-bike for. First, commuting. I don't have safe roads to ride to work. There are several places where there are uphill sections right around blind corners with no shoulder. I'd like to have enough power to do 20 mph or more up those sections so that I would be closer to the same speed as traffic. Second, I'd like to get an fat eBike to groom trails. No noisy motorcycle with the requisite maintenance.

that's true - in city traffic I could keep up with traffic during rush hour, and benefit by drafting.
Starts and hills were awesome. I did Port Moody to Downtown Vancouver BC in 55 mins afternoon commute, which matches using a car.
I had a Bionx chipped (restricted only by aero). It got stolen - minus the battery. Not a huge loss really as I sold the battery for nearly $1000.

I built up a Giant Liv flat-bar fitness for my wife : 28mm tires, ext range Bionx system, color LCD display etc. Really nice setup. Goes forever.
We tour together for hours at a time. She has no fear of steep hills or distance. She normally runs it 1 or 2 assist (out of 4) and gets a great workout.

Went for a tour with my daughter (the Dynamo) on the e-bike one weekend. Ruthlessly dropped me in a climb, when we were supposed to keep together. frickin' heck I was pooched.

For my commute, I keep a car 1/2 way now. Ride city, rack it and jump in the vw buggy for the hiway section.



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Training Tweets: https://twitter.com/Jagersport_com
FM Sports: http://fluidmotionsports.com

My advice get over it. E bikes are going to rule the world. Look at any major city. the E bikes and E scooters outnumber the real bikes probably 2 to one now and we are in the infant stages of their development. I will probably never own one but I thought that about computers and cell phones at times in my life as well. They ain't going away any time in our lifetimes so buy one or ignore them, you will see them out every day on your rides and their owners will wonder why you are so old fashioned on that pedal bike.

Perhaps the question is a bit insular, like fictional Jerry (Senifeld) and George questioning a dermatologist for taking credit for "saving people's lives"... oh, skin CANCER... right. So, an e-bike rental or purchase for a person with incurable cancer who has ridden a lot in their lifetime and hopes to eek out a few more epic climbs during their "good days" between chemotherapy treatments. Day to day, maybe they can get up all the way completely "on their own". Maybe not.

LOL. You have the same Fuze problem I had. Get rid of the Fuze Chrome plug-in and it will stop adding the Fuze crap into your post.

They are for riders like my wife. She and I enjoy riding together, but as my training has ramped up by a large amount in the past few years, and hers has not (she has no interest in racing, improving cycling fitness beyond a moderate recreational level), our rides together often end up being frustrating for one (or both) of us. My solution for this has typically been to ride my fat tire mountain bike while she rides her road bike, but that's not ideal for many reasons. A road-type ebike will allow her to ride with me and go at a speed that is comfortable for both of us. They will also allow her to ride farther than she currently can based on her fitness level, which will help us tackle half-day jaunts out, e.g. ride 2-3 hours out, have a picnic or stop in for a pub lunch out in the country, ride 2-3 hours back.

We have the same deal in my house, except my wife has done sprint tris and refuses to train regularly (and doesn't want to "get faster" or take my advice on how to train lol) so we're always in a position where I'm struggling to average under 100w and not ride away. I can appreciate how an e-bike can be a good equalizer but recreational cyclists would probably enjoy their cycling if they invested just a little bit of effort, plus they'd get to enjoy all the other health/physical benefits of more vigorous physical activity.

Not a road bike, but I really want a e-fatbike to break trail. Breaking trail often wipes me out especially if the snow is deep. I may not get to enjoy the fruits of my labor if the snow melts quickly. With an e-fatbike, I could break trail, take a little rest then enjoy the groomed.

I would also like to have a e-bike for a commuter. There are several places, usually hills with curves, where it would be much safer if I could be moving at a speed much closer to traffic. A light road e-bike would be great for that.

I am 62 years old and I am riding mostly with 40 years old guys and girls.
We do usually 80 to 100 KM rides.
They are getting better and I am getting slower, I still can keep us with them when they don’t go for hard day but It won;t last long!
In few years, I will buy an ebike so I can stay with us, I am sure that they won’t mind because we are friends but I would be reluctant to join a group I don’t know!
I prefer to use an ebike and stay with my friends than riiding alone :)

I thought they were so Eric Lagerstrom could keep up with Paula Findlay. (pink)

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http://www.sfuelsgolonger.com

E-bikes are obviously for taking all the Strava climbing KOM's... Most of them have 20 to 25mph limiters, but going 20 on many climbs is beyond world-class.

I make a joke of this, but it may be the case that the Strava KOM/ranking system will indeed be pointless in another 5 to 10 years and E-bikes and regular bikes will be completely mixed together. But, honestly, maybe that is not a bad thing. Of course Strava may go out of business anyway, so they probably won't be around in 10 years.