It isn't fair to call it a mediocre life. It is more about defining success differently from someone else. More isn't necessarily better. Just like living a life of austerity isn't what a lot of people want. Don't let other determine what you want out of life.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

I am not killing myself to get to the top. Near as I can tell being a manager or higher comes with it's fair share of suckage along with the money.

I am comfortable. The reality is that our combined incomes put us in the upper middle class.

Life is good, I don't need the added stress of being in management.

If that makes my life "mediocre" then so be it.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

My take on this is that most people end up settling for the mediocre life. Mediocre is often a relative standard.
My story is that while by absolute standards I've had a pretty exciting and successful journey (so far), but because of where I am now, I am surrounded by people who are pretty fuckin' amazing and successful. Relative to that group, I am mediocre.

If I lived in rural (& fictional) Kazakhstan my comparitor would be a bit different

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Remember - It's important to be comfortable in your own skin... because it turns out society frowns on wearing other people's

I've been thinking about this a lot lately. I am very driven, but more so because I hate making mistakes, letting people down, or feeling like I should have known/anticipated/planned for something better.

Also, working in construction, you work under a lot of assholes. I knew if I didn't want to do that for long, I would have to improve quickly.

My longest serving employee recently quit. He left for a government job. He will make a bit more money, but his earnings potential will never go up. He will be making what he's making now, plus his small annual raises, until he retires. This new job will not challenge him at all. He is in his late 20's. We would often clash because he just had no drive to improve or take initiative to learn new things on his own. I feel like he is trading in a lot more potential (with some hard work) for a low stress, zero reward career with no future, which is something I just cannot comprehend.

On the other hand, he will never have to take his work home with him, will carry much less work related stress in his life, have his yearly 3 weeks vacation, etc.

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Long Chile was a silly place.

+1 Mediocre? I think there are billions of people that would love such a life.

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"The great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do."

So I was going to post and than saw yours. Basically what you say the Quality of Life is more important the Standard of Living. While the article (which I didn't read) does not relate to it directly, but rather talk about being driven person and such think the underlining theme is success which translate to higher standard of living (in most cases). I am not surprised about your post, being a Canadian (no pun intendant).
I was talking with my wife the other day (happens sometimes) about this point as we are going to Nova Scotia in couple of weeks on vacation. And she said that its more about Quality of Life there than otherwise. IDK.

My dad was a truck driver for 45 years. He made enough money to keep all of us kids in shoes, and he was happy driving trucks.

I was happy flying airplanes in the USAF. I never filled the squares required to become the Chief of Staff, but I managed to be in the cockpit for 19 out of my 20 years there. Then I taught school. Enjoyed teaching physics and chemistry to my students, but never wanted to become an administrator (where the big bucks are) and have to deal with their problems. Always made enough money to be happy.

Retired and living the easy life now. I don't own a summer house in Tuscany, nor a stable of horses, nor a private jet, nor a yacht. But we're comfortable and happy.

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"Human existence is based upon two pillars: Compassion and knowledge. Compassion without knowledge is ineffective; Knowledge without compassion is inhuman." Victor Weisskopf.

I think it would suck to settle for a mediocre life. But I think the hardest part is figuring out what a meaningful life is for you and going for it.

I had the big career and gave up a job with an international team to be a part time analyst. I can see some people staring down their nose at me. But every Friday when I walk into my daughter’s school to volunteer I get high fives and kids who hug me and want to tell me what’s going on in their lives and it makes my heart sing. I’m sure it seems mediocre to some- both those who think I should have pushed on career wise and those who can’t imagine why I still go to work at all. But for me it works. So I don’t think it’s mediocre at all even if others might judge it that way. That’s their problem- not mine.

I sleep well at night and that’s the best metric to me of how it’s going.

You can have it all in life.
You just can't have it all at one time.

It was possible for me to:
succed at my career,
excel at youth and masters sport,
successfully raise two children on my own,
lead a relaxed and satisfying life,
have beautiful and intelligent girlfriends,
live somewhat in conformance with my values


But.....
I don't think I ever had more than 4 of these things at one time. And usually less than that.

At every time in my life, I was always mediocre at something.

Some people probably think my life is mediocre/boring/half-assing it.

Some people would love to have what I have.

I'm happy (mostly), I have a very stable income, nice home, great family and leave work at work (mostly). While I'm not objectively note-worthy, I do not aspire to do more at the cost of my leisure time.

Plus I'm posting to Slowtwitch while i'm at work - nothing mediocre about that.

The question for me would be more so "when is it ok to accept a mediocre life." At some point 99% of us should ease off the gas and live a happier "mediocre life." But also, at some points, we should have the pedal on the floor. I am just not totally sure where those are.

I am not sure if high school REALLY matters. You can mess up, go to CC excel, finish up at a 4 year school and do well, and now that name is on your resume.

Maybe it is at the start of your career, to try your best/be an entrepreneur reaching for the stars.

This is a really good point. I certainly couldn't have been as "mediocre" at a younger age - nor did I want to be. Then the hard work vs reward was totally worth it - now, not so much.

And a guaranteed pension. As long a gov't stays afloat I guess. I prefer to more or less steer my own ship :)

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They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

I am successful by most metrics but have never experienced being utterly committed to an enormous, challenging collaborative project that consumed me. I dopn't really know how to make it happen but would be sad if it never did.

Before someone suggests joining the army - I'm not going to do that. The thing that pushed this thought to the front of my mind most recently was watching the documentary on the last season of GoT. Weird, I know, but to see the legions of extras and snow men and make up artists that show took was oddly moving. I was jealous of their exhaustion and accomplishment.

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"Are you sure we're going fast enough?" - Emil Zatopek

Which is fine. But I think he could still get that pension if he gets that job at age 40. He could apply himself, make way more money for 10-12 years, gain more skills, then fall back to the fluff job if he still wants to later in life.

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Long Chile was a silly place.

BZ

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Steve

This is something I've been mulling over a lot lately.

I don't live in the best zip code, but I have a nice home nonetheless. I don't drive a European car, but my Ford is well maintained. My wife will never be mistaken for a supermodel, but she can turn heads when she does herself up. When I raced, I never made the podium (well, one time), but my tri club peers respected me and thought I was terrific.

I've fallen into a saying...Better than some not as good as others. The only thing in my life that stands out is my marriage and my children - they are both doing very well. Every other aspect of my life is good, not great, good. I'll take that. Call it mediocre if you want, but I think great comes at a price. For me, I would rather have everything working well; relationships, finances, health, profession. If one of these areas really skyrockets, I don't know that I could maintain the other areas very well.

My husband is an administrator. He must be hiding the summer house and jet :).

Definitely. I'm reading a book on the subject now (The Subtle Art of Not Giving A Fuck). It makes essentially that point: find what gives your life purpose and enjoy the pursuit as much or more as the acquisition, because the struggle is what gives meaning. That may sound counterintuitive to being content with mediocre, but I think what you're eluding to isn't necessarily mediocrity. It's accepting and enjoying what you have without killing yourself in pursuit of something that probably won't bring you true happiness, because the list of things that you perceive as adding to your happiness is endless.

I'm trying damn hard to not give a fuck. It's harder than one would think.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

Yeah. I will no doubt always struggle with that ability. My brother and best friend are both able to “enjoy” what they are doing or what they have and just relax. As I said before, it’s not even about the “stuff” or money or title... it’s just the feeling that I don’t want to waste my potential. I think the key is trying to switch the lens to redefine potential...or at least which part of my life am I trying to maximize.

Indeed. Wise counsel from the ‘Buddha...

Define mediocre.

Some might say my life is, and it certainly is compared to the bright eyed idealist I was as a kid. But I think it's turned out to be an incredible life -- have traveled to most states & closing in on all 50, a few countries, have some phenomenal and real friends, awesome kids, a stable marriage, freedom and flexibility. I could go somewhere else and make more money, but my salary alone is well above the area median household income & combined we're quite comfortable at upper middle class and I have the autonomy to work without someone over my shoulder, can always go to my kid's events or help at the school, don't bring stress home, work out at lunchtime or do volunteer work that fills me up. Meanwhile I see people busting their asses only to be tied to a company. We live within our means, save, don't carry debt beyond one car and the mortgage, ahead of goal for long term savings. But we're not doing wild, baller stuff either.

Is it mediocre? I suppose in the American "get more, do more, earn more, gain power" mind it is. But damn if it isn't great having a low stress life & financial comfort (but not total freedom).

There's probably not just one simple thing that fulfills you. And the mix of things that does fulfill you will probably change over the course of your life. You left NW Arkansas for a reason.

Me personally, I am very interested in maximizing my effect (power?) over myself and society. If I'm going to get out and help push this great car called humanity then I want that push to be as forceful as I can make it*.


* You know... until, fuck it, there's some nice roses to smell out there too. (Back to the "life is not just one thing" theme.)

https://bemorewithless.com/...e-mexican-fisherman/

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They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

Great illustration. I want to be that...so badly

I've spent most of my adult life living and working overseas. I spent a decade in the US, moved back to the UK for five, moved to the Middle East for seven and then to France by way of the UK again

The seven years in the ME was exhausting in retrospect.

When I left I was at the point where the thought of working again, in a senior-ish role, was beyond my frame of reference. I had had enough.

I've spent two years doing some consultancy, skiing 80 days a season and taking the kids to school and I have learnt:

I like my kids but I don't need to take them and pick them up every day to know that

I can, within reason, be somewhat selective about what I do

I am financially secure enough I could walk away from something if I needed to so the motivation for being there has changed

I quite like doing serious work, I like senior responsibilities and working with clever and motivated people but I also recognise that sometime I need a break from it

I also think that the thought of pursuing something less interesting to me for another 20+ years is soul destroying

Anyway, we were discussing it today and even my wife said she's quite excited about moving overseas again.

It is completely “relative”. I grew up in the Midwest. Redneck area of Michigan. Family was comfortable. We had a house. Cars. A boat. Never hungry. Got to play sports growing up without worrying what things cost. Knew some very wealthy people. Also knew some people that lived with a lot less than we did.
I now live in Orange County,Ca. With an income that would make me a 1%er in Michigan. I make more than I ever thought I would. I own a home that is worth low 7 figures. I have a job I like. A happy marriage. 3 awesome kids. I’m home for dinner almost every night. Take my kids to school most days. Able to take a decent vacation here and there.
But I know people out here who are filthy, crazy rich. We spent yesterday at a house on the sand in Newport Beach on a private beach. Way, way, way out of my league. Of the super well of people I know- Some of it is family money. Some are incredibly smart. Some work their ass off. Some got lucky. But for each of them, there is somewhafout there with more.

Not sure if this really applies to this discussion, but...

the longer I live, the more I begin to believe that more stupidity=more happiness.

(not pink)

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Not everything is as it seems -Mr. Miyagi

I lost several professional engineers to the Army Corps of Engineers in Louisville. In some cases the pay might've even been a little less, but the absence of utilization targets,relaxed deadlines, fat benefits, seemingly unlimited vacation days and holidays, and a shortened work week proved to be a Siren's song for some who were wired to be comfortable staying in 2nd gear.

I struggled to understand why anybody would willingly place a ceiling on their earning potential - especially with a family. Different strokes...

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Lifeguard: "Do you need help?" Me: "No, that's just my butterfly."

Different courses for different horses. I'm in my mid 20s with a fairly high paying and high potential job, but I'm focused on saving my money to be able to do what your employee did (and potentially go part time prior to retirement). It's not about drive, it's about what makes you happy. I like my job right now, but I hate missing out on all the great evening rides/races that I see my friends doing on Strava. My job actually has pretty good balance, but I'm usually leaving the office post 6pm (which takes me out of all the great weekday 6pm start times).

I'm not super ambitious. I've always been frugal- I don't wanr a fancy house, nice cars, nice clothes or any of that. My most valuable possession (literally, not in terms of sentimental value) is my road bike. What matters most to my happiness is to be able to live comfortably and spend as much time as possible with friends doing what I love (which is NOT looking at excel, SQL, and email all day). To your point, maybe I could kill myself for 10 years than move to this lifestyle, but I don't want to give up my best years in my 20s and 30s slaving away for a few extra dollars. I have friends in banking and consulting who are doing this, and you could not pay me enough to live their lifestyle.

You do sound a lot like my ex-employee. I think the thing that bugged me the most about him, was that he just wasn't all that good at his job and he had no desire to improve, despite having ample opportunities to. His job wasn't very high paying, and I was hoping to set him up with the skills and opportunity to be more independent and earn way more money. It wouldn't even require much hard or extra work, just applying oneself while already at work. It was like pulling teeth.

It's all fine and dandy to not want a Mercedes and a 3 car garage, but, you do need to balance how you want to live your life now with some kind of preparation for the future. If you slack and don't gain skills when you're young, you're going to have a harder and harder time at work when you're older and competing against young hard chargers.

I'm not much older then you (early 30's), and definitely relate to a lot of what you said as it is a common mindset amongst our generation.

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Long Chile was a silly place.

What you may find, is that as your friends get married, have kids, promotions that the whole mid week thing drifts away. Few people in there late 20's early 30's are still living their lifestyle.

There is also something to be said for participating productively, but that's another thread

How would you or anyone define a life that is mediocre or extraordinary? Is it the number of hours that you work? How much $ you make? Whether you’re famous? Your position in a company? The difference that you’ve made in others lives? The awards and medals you’ve earned / won? How happy you and your family are?

I was an average student and in my work life haven’t done anything extraordinary - however I’m proud of what I’ve been able to contribute to society even though I don’t earn lots of $ or have fancy titles or awards to my name. Some of the things I’ve done in my personal life - some would consider to be extraordinary (or just crazy) but I don’t because I haven’t done anything significant to make some else’s life better. All in all I live a mediocre life and have no issues with it because I’m happy.

It’s not a question (that you’ve posed) I’d ever ask myself. The only question I’d ask is how can I further improve myself so that I can make a more positive contribution to society? That’s probably how I’d measure anyone’s life as being mediocre or extraordinary - inc my own, but to me, it’s all subjective depending on the individual’s priorities and values.

I'm currently traveling with my wife in Spain. We just left Madrid and the pace of life and the true enjoyment on the people's faces was awesome. It didn't appear by any of the standards they were living above a "mediocre" life but they did seem happy.

Since I am able to travel, I have what I want but I'm not a manager, I'm not making a high six figure salary but my bills are paid, my kids are healthy, happy and educated with the means to do what they want in life. Most of all, I'm very happy. By most appearances on this board, I'm painfully mediocre.

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_____
TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.

It's weird to me that most posts on this "mediocre" life thread are focusing on money.

I feel like we are -- unfortunately -- conflating the concept of excellence with the concept creating a nice perception of ourselves in the minds of others.

Well since you put it that way mediocre life no good. I want my wife to be totally in love with me and to do that I am going to spend lots of time with her and make her life better. And I am going to spend lots of time with my kids. And be the best friend ever.

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They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

Being satisfied is the highest achievement. Some will never have it no matter how much they have.

John Stuart Mill has a famous quote about not agreeing with you.

Using the word mediocrity itself implies that a person with "more money" or a role in work "higher on the food chain" is living an exceptional life.

They very well might be ignoring their kids and spouse, cheating on them, cheating their taxes, and overall a piece of filth.

Meanwhile, the 60 hour week single mother working at McD and attending the PTA meeting is knocking it outta the park.

I get tired of people equating money, wealth, and status with success.

This one?


I have learned to seek my happiness by limiting my desires, rather than in attempting to satisfy them.

John Stuart Mill

Ah, your frustration makes a lot more sense in this context. Totally agree about trying to learn skills and experience while you're in a job which will set you up for success down the line. I feel a bit better that I'm not in the same boat as your ex-employee here as I have good reviews and am working to take on more responsibility right now. My only original point was that I get why someone would want to go his route as I've been doing the math myself about how much/how long I need to save to be able to check all the boxes down the line. It's all about finding the right balance for sure, but I feel so bad for those who are losing their 20s in demanding jobs that they really don't enjoy.

I know that a big differentiator of myself vs a lot of folks who face a similar choice is my life situation. I'm single with no family or others who depend on me, no student loans to pay off, etc., so money isn't as high on the priority list as other. Add in a SO or especially kids and that whole equation changes, and I know that I would have a much harder time turning down higher paying opportunities even at the expense of a work-life balance. I'm hyper focused on saving now to create a nest-egg to hopefully prevent me from having to sacrifice quality of life down the line, especially if I had kids and a family who might pay the price for that.

I would just call this LIFE. Neither mediocre or better or worse.

I left Kansas for Arizona, then San Francisco and now Nashville, but, I'm to the point where I would just like to live someplace for most of the year that has (1) good gravel riding, (2) a decent pool to swim in, (3) some good Mexican food, (4) a bookstore and (5) a decent coffee shop (that isn't Starbucks). Then in the winter, go live temporarily in FL, AZ, HI. Working on making it happen sooner than later.

My dad was a mailman for over 30 years and lived in the same town his entire life. He seemed pretty darned content his entire life (and was also able to leave me and my brother a decent amount of money when he died last year).

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

No. This one...


"better to be Socrates dissatisfied than a fool satisfied"

Four things my father-in-law told me:

1) "You should always be trying to get that next promotion."

2) "I loved my job until I got into management."

3) "I never went for the director position because it was a whole lot more time and stress, I wouldn't have been very good at it, and it didn't pay much more."

4) "The problem with a lot of engineering companies is that too many engineers go into management and they aren't very good at it."


I pointed out that it's hard to reconcile #1 with the three quotes that follow.



For me, personally, I try to strike the best balance between freedom, flexibility, pay, and job security. I've turned down opportunities for management, but I did teach myself a programming language which got me a promotion. I make good enough money and work in my pajamas. Every physical I get shows that I have great blood pressure.

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

Some might thing that I settled on mediocre, but to me and my wife the choice was either give up my integrity, my honor and most of my time and self respect. I gave up an upward moving career in management, a downgrade in position and I have refused three promotions in the 6 years that I have been in the lower career position.

To me, the ability to give up previous ambitions when they become harmful is wisdom. The rat race in DC is abominable, and the dog eat dog paradigm is no joke. I saw people just above my paygrade get people fired just to stick a finger into a rival supervisors eye. I saw people volunteer for combat zone positions just to get out of the job, and none of that fits within what I want for my life.

So now I am in the "fly over" territory, working pretty much independently and because of the civil service regulations I carried most of the pay that I gave up in DC to the lower paygrade I now inhabit. I am living well, have enough money for the things we want to do, my wife does not need to work, and my retirement will be significantly better than most. Yes, my leadership thinks its "quaint" that I won't take a promotion back up to DC, but my local supervisor in Atlanta protects me from any negatives and appreciates what I do out here in the wilderness. Living well doesn't always mean promotions and positions, in the end it is defined by the person's wants and self esteem. I get all of those needs taken care of with what I do now, so if someone else thinks that mediocre, they can just stuff it.

I can't wrap my head around wanting a mediocre life. I totally get not wanting the top rung of the job ladder because it costs too much in other areas, but to me that's not settling for mediocrity. That's balancing one area of your life to match your goals in another area of your life. I want the best family life I can create. If my job compromises that I'll adjust. I'm involved pretty heavily in my church. That matters to me so again I've worked to make adjustments so I can make as much of that as I want to. My triathlon participation (back when it existed) was completed on limited training and was mediocre from a results standpoint, but it was exactly what I wanted it to be in balance with all my other roles. My job right now doesn't really shut off very often. But I really like what I do so I'm good with that for now and at this stage of life it doesn't compromise the other things that matter to me.

So I guess this boils down to the idea that I'm good with certain areas of my life being objectively "mediocre", but the whole package of my life adds up to me getting the absolute most out of what I have.

I'd say wanting a mediocre life, or at least being satisfied with a minimal amount of things is a superpower. Just like the ability to feel comfortable being alone.
https://www.youtube.com/...Cc1cUbx90&t=256s

[/quote]Different courses for different horses. I'm in my mid 20s with a fairly high paying and high potential job, but I'm focused on saving my money to be able to do what your employee did (and potentially go part time prior to retirement). It's not about drive, it's about what makes you happy. I like my job right now, but I hate missing out on all the great evening rides/races that I see my friends doing on Strava. My job actually has pretty good balance, but I'm usually leaving the office post 6pm (which takes me out of all the great weekday 6pm start times).

I'm not super ambitious. I've always been frugal- I don't wanr a fancy house, nice cars, nice clothes or any of that. My most valuable possession (literally, not in terms of sentimental value) is my road bike. What matters most to my happiness is to be able to live comfortably and spend as much time as possible with friends doing what I love (which is NOT looking at excel, SQL, and email all day). To your point, maybe I could kill myself for 10 years than move to this lifestyle, but I don't want to give up my best years in my 20s and 30s slaving away for a few extra dollars. I have friends in banking and consulting who are doing this, and you could not pay me enough to live their lifestyle.[/quote]
I worked hard in my 20’s, not as hard in my 30’s and harder in my now 40’s. Why? Kids.

If I can give any comment to what you said- realize there is a difference between not being able to go to a ride because you work late and not being able to work late because you have to run to daycare and now you can’t ride either because your home with kids. My rides have to be strategized with family stuff and I am running during my kids soccer practice at the soccer fields doing laps in the park.

Just giving you an idea of what happens when Mrs right rolls along and you have a family. What I can say is that I am glad I am more financially secure than many in my 40’s, so that stress is less. Live up your freedom. Much of what I found I enjoy doesn’t really cost money. Riding my bike, running, spending time with my girlfriend...

It is interesting how money seems to be a driver for most when many don’t know what to really do with the money. Of course lifestyle rise and the money gets spent, but I don’t think many people have a defined financial goal. So what work so hard?

The ol' time vs money contradiction. We work to make enough money to one day have enough time to enjoy the money we made.

The first time I retired was at age 24. I had spent a full summer on a commercial fishing boat in Alaska working god awful 16-20 hour days. I never saw a pay check until the end of the summer so through out the months of drudgery the concept of 'being at work' slipped away to just 'existing knowing in the back of my mind that I was being taken care of.'

I stepped off the boat with $8000 in 2003 and made it 28 months with out a job. The hippy term is 'living off the universe' but it was juxtaposed with my otherwise myopic obsession with maintaining my free time in order to pursue my passion. At the time it was skiing, (yes I will keep referencing this subject through out various thread topics because I think it is the foundation of my thinking that leads to contentment. Which is ironic that contentment would arise from constant need to improve as some of you have mentioned.)

It was about 20 months into this retirement that I met a lovely Canadian girl on whistler Peak Chair and boom I ended up living in BC for 7 years. Now this is where it gets tricky. I had to tell the Canadian government that I was in the country and I wanted to immigrate there etc.

Now I wasn't ALLOWED to work. Crazy how quick perspective changes with context. My first Canadian job was lift maintenance guy at small ski area making $9/hr. We had been living in a camper for a fucking year straight and now with all this money rolling in we bought a house for $62k. ($4000 down borrowed out of my wife's RSP)

2 years later sold house for $125k. (lucky market swing) Turned money right around and bought land in same small BC town, land in Nicaragua and land in Alaska. Spent 10 years obsessively working in construction , 60-80 hour weeks are the norm in building season. Learning as much as possible while constantly dumping resources back into land and now houses. My co workers would think I was crazy because I would go home after 10 hour day and work 3-4 more hours on my house every day.

Recent remortgage bought house in Kona, which is where Id rather be but full time move not in the cards yet. I could technically retire now at age 39 and live off rent but kids need iphones and shoes and stuff. Plus we have good school and community here, and the kids need to learn to ski. Again the relational ship with work changes when the context changes.

Its funny, Im actually sitting in 12 x 16 cabin in back yard so we can air bnb main house this week. My 4 and 10 year olds are bugging me to go for walk... I'm technically not rich by a long shot but when I'm hanging at the beach explains to a random dentist on vacation how I take 6 months off every year, Feel like I could be on to something.

Final answer: 1)don't be afraid to take risks
2)invest in real estate