Awful grinding noise Dura Ace 9100 Series

Feb 3, 19 13:14

Post #1 of 44 Views: 9345

This had me completely puzzled for a while.

Brand new un-used cassette and chain, Dura Ace 9100 series. Perfectly tuned di2 bike shifts and rides beautifully on the stand. Put it on the rollers/ and outside and awful awful grinding noise in the highest 4 (4 smallest cogs) on big and little ring.

The chain is the new shimano dura ace chain with the master link. Switched to a different chain bought late summer with no master link, the noise is completely gone. Very strange.

Some points....

Chain is well lubricated, and ran it through the various gears for quite a while.
Chain length is correct (same as previous chain)
Bike is tuned perfectly all other cassettes and chains I have work flawlessly
Previlious Dura Ace 9000 series chain and matching cassette also work perfect no grinding noise.

Is there some sort of manufacturing defect with the new Dura Ace / Ultegra chains or same series cassettes? I noticed someone else online has this issue but it wasn’t resolved.

Re: Awful grinding noise Dura Ace 9100 Series [titemple652] [ In reply to ]

Feb 3, 19 13:38

Post #2 of 44 Views: 9311

Which model chain were you trying to use, the CN-HG901? Some of the Shimano chains are directional and the side that is engraved with the model of the chain should be facing to the outside. I believe the HG901 chain is directional. Not sure if that was the issue but worth checking out.

Brian Jacobson
Fit2Ride Velo Studio
http://www.fit2ridevelo.com

Re: Awful grinding noise Dura Ace 9100 Series [BrianJ] [ In reply to ]

Feb 3, 19 13:43

Post #3 of 44 Views: 9302

Hi there. Yes this chain is certainly directional and the logos are to the outside of the bike.

Re: Awful grinding noise Dura Ace 9100 Series [BrianJ] [ In reply to ]

Feb 3, 19 13:50

Post #4 of 44 Views: 9290

HGX11

Re: Awful grinding noise Dura Ace 9100 Series [titemple652] [ In reply to ]

Feb 3, 19 14:18

Post #5 of 44 Views: 9247

I have not heard of any manufacturing issues with Dura-Ace 9100 but anything is possible. Assuming everything was installed correctly it is hard to know what was going on without seeing it.

Brian Jacobson
Fit2Ride Velo Studio
http://www.fit2ridevelo.com

Re: Awful grinding noise Dura Ace 9100 Series [BrianJ] [ In reply to ]

Feb 3, 19 14:27

Post #6 of 44 Views: 9235

It is absolutely driving me nuts. I just discovered the same combo ia also grinding on my other bike. HG-901 chain and new CS9100 cassette. Seems like the problem is the cassette.

Re: Awful grinding noise Dura Ace 9100 Series [titemple652] [ In reply to ]

Feb 3, 19 15:07

Post #7 of 44 Views: 9216

Dura-Ace cassettes sound and shift like junk.
Try an 8000- It will quiet your bike down.

Re: Awful grinding noise Dura Ace 9100 Series [bootsie_cat] [ In reply to ]

Feb 3, 19 15:13

Post #8 of 44 Views: 9213

the cs8000 and 9100 are the two new cassettes where I am getting the popping noises no matter which series chains I use new or old. I left the new chains on, put lightly or moderately used 9000 series cassettes and the popping/grinding stops.

I should have noted it only happens under load. On the maintenance stand it is silent and I can spin all gear combos perfectly backwards.

Re: Awful grinding noise Dura Ace 9100 Series [titemple652] [ In reply to ]

Feb 3, 19 15:14

Post #9 of 44 Views: 9210

What wheel? Freehub need some love? Or is it multiple wheels?

Re: Awful grinding noise Dura Ace 9100 Series [bootsie_cat] [ In reply to ]

Feb 3, 19 15:16

Post #10 of 44 Views: 9208

Multiple wheels. ENVE 4.5s, mavic Cosmic Carbon Pro UST, Roval CLX40

Re: Awful grinding noise Dura Ace 9100 Series [titemple652] [ In reply to ]

Feb 3, 19 15:18

Post #11 of 44 Views: 9202

Hmm? Tough one.
Hanger aligned?
Hanger bolted tight to frame?
Rear derailleur tight in the hanger?
B-tension perfect?

Re: Awful grinding noise Dura Ace 9100 Series [titemple652] [ In reply to ]

Feb 3, 19 15:22

Post #12 of 44 Views: 9198

Going to ask, but are you sure the 4 smallest cogs are mounted in the right direction/side and not on backwards?

Re: Awful grinding noise Dura Ace 9100 Series [MKirk] [ In reply to ]

Feb 3, 19 15:26

Post #13 of 44 Views: 9195

With shimano 11s, it's not possible to put the cogs on backwards...

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Re: Awful grinding noise Dura Ace 9100 Series [titemple652] [ In reply to ]

Feb 3, 19 16:04

Post #14 of 44 Views: 9176

weird that a different chain works fine.

I know the new Shimano master links require a lot of force to set. Did you check it to make sure it is fully locked in? I'm not sure why this would affect just the little cogs, unless the semi-frozen link is dragging on the pulled in tight derailler cage.

Also, I'd pull off the cassette and make sure all the spacers are in there correctly and that the whole thing is nice and tight and seated flat. There is a blow up pic of the cassette here: https://bike.shimano.com/...14014_1_750_750.jpeg or on this page: https://bike.shimano.com/...-r9100/CS-R9100.html

...again, no idea why it'd work on one chain and not the other, but easy to check.

Finally, have a look all over. Is there any finish rubbed off any components or is definitely only from the chain? Can you put it on a trainer and get enough power to make the noise? Someone can help pinpoint the piece that is being noisy.

Re: Awful grinding noise Dura Ace 9100 Series [titemple652] [ In reply to ]

Feb 3, 19 17:39

Post #15 of 44 Views: 9123

My vote is you are missing a spacer (maybe 10/11ring) on the inside. When on the trainer there is enough compression to keep it from moving?

Re: Awful grinding noise Dura Ace 9100 Series [titemple652] [ In reply to ]

Feb 3, 19 18:01

Post #16 of 44 Views: 9107

Have you taken the derailleur pulleys apart to see if anything on the inside is catching/rubbing? If you have DuraAce, the pulleys are really easy to take completely apart, clean and lube.

http://www.sfuelsgolonger.com

Re: Awful grinding noise Dura Ace 9100 Series [s.gentz] [ In reply to ]

Feb 3, 19 18:18

Post #17 of 44 Views: 9094

Not missing a spacer lads the cassette is installed correctly and is not loose. The master link is set as it should be but I will note the grinding is with my other chains as well it is just worse with the new Dura ace 11 speed one.

I put the new cassette on the kickr and it is even worse. Doesn’t matter which of my 4 Dura Ace 11 speed bikes I try it with. I’m not about to take all my rear derailers apart they are fine.

I’ve been wrenching for about 15 years, but perhaps I will take it into the shop for a fresh set of eyes.

Re: Awful grinding noise Dura Ace 9100 Series [titemple652] [ In reply to ]

Feb 3, 19 18:27

Post #18 of 44 Views: 9081

Tomorrow I am going to try a slightly shorter chain mine are all about a link too long. Maybe this particular cassette design close tolerances needs the chain length to be perfect. If I solve this problem I will let you know.

Re: Awful grinding noise Dura Ace 9100 Series [titemple652] [ In reply to ]

Feb 3, 19 18:44

Post #19 of 44 Views: 9072

Have you played with the angle of this bolt? I was getting a horrible grinding noise in my lowest gear, and it turned out to be that the setting of it was putting the edge of the pulley too close to the cassette.

Ian

Last edited by: sneeuwaap: Feb 3, 19 18:49

Re: Awful grinding noise Dura Ace 9100 Series [titemple652] [ In reply to ]

Feb 3, 19 19:52

Post #20 of 44 Views: 9045

I would definitely check derailleur hanger first, making sure it's not bent.

Re: Awful grinding noise Dura Ace 9100 Series [sneeuwaap] [ In reply to ]

Feb 4, 19 2:27

Post #21 of 44 Views: 8967

sneeuwaap wrote:

Have you played with the angle of this bolt? I was getting a horrible grinding noise in my lowest gear, and it turned out to be that the setting of it was putting the edge of the pulley too close to the cassette.

Ian

That is not an adjustment point, it is supposed to rest against the traditional hanger stop.
Some people will deliberately rotate this backwards to allow easier rear wheel removal, but that is contrary to Shimano design.

Re: Awful grinding noise Dura Ace 9100 Series [lyrrad] [ In reply to ]

Feb 4, 19 13:49

Post #22 of 44 Views: 8873

Hi,

I've seen this before several times.

Dura-Ace is very chain sensitive and often won't ever work properly without an official Shimano Dura-Ace chain. It's one of the only Shimano Groupsets that doesn't like any other Shimano series chain.

I suspect Dura-Ace lifting ramps of the cassette and chainrings are ever so slightly different to Ultegra etc. and the Dura-Ace chain has slightly different machined plates to match the ramps.

My advice would be to buy a Dura-Ace chain.

Pat.

Re: Awful grinding noise Dura Ace 9100 Series [Avoneer] [ In reply to ]

Feb 4, 19 18:32

Post #23 of 44 Views: 8802

Avoneer wrote:

Hi,

My advice would be to buy a Dura-Ace chain.

Pat.

See the OP's third sentence.

Re: Awful grinding noise Dura Ace 9100 Series [dalava] [ In reply to ]

Feb 5, 19 4:16

Post #24 of 44 Views: 8742

dalava wrote:

I would definitely check derailleur hanger first, making sure it's not bent.

If the OP has a replaceable derailleur hanger, he should also make sure the bolt or bolts that hold it in place are tight. My wife was having a rattling in the smallest cog and it turned out the hanger bolt was loose.

Re: Awful grinding noise Dura Ace 9100 Series [SummitAK] [ In reply to ]

Feb 6, 19 5:25

Post #25 of 44 Views: 8612

SummitAK wrote:

Avoneer wrote:

Hi,

My advice would be to buy a Dura-Ace chain.

Pat.

See the OP's third sentence.

Who then says it's a HGX11 which is not a Dura-Ace chain!

Re: Awful grinding noise Dura Ace 9100 Series [titemple652] [ In reply to ]

Feb 6, 19 6:47

Post #26 of 44 Views: 4932

Have you tried a different brand 11 speed chain yet? If not maybe try one (or maybe ditch the Shimano quick link for a different brand one like SRAM, Wipperman Connex or KMC).

While I'm not using the latest gen cassettes I'm currently running a Wipperman 11SO and a SRAM Red22 chains on my bikes with no issues with 6800 cassettes (and worked perfectly fine on a 5800 too). The Wipperman quick links are considered the best out there by many and I even bought an extra to use with my Red22 chain instead because it is reusable along with not requiring tools for removal (still use one when I have access but in a pinch this can be very helpful).

Last edited by: loxx0050: Feb 6, 19 6:48

Re: Awful grinding noise Dura Ace 9100 Series [loxx0050] [ In reply to ]

Feb 6, 19 6:50

Post #27 of 44 Views: 4928

Great idea about trying a diff brand chain. The only issues I am experiencing are with Dura Ace 9100 cassettes and Ultegra 8000 cassettes. Seems like they changed the shape of the teeth and maybe spacing to optimize for discs. I read that somewhere...

Re: Awful grinding noise Dura Ace 9100 Series [Avoneer] [ In reply to ]

Feb 6, 19 8:00

Post #28 of 44 Views: 4911

That is an Ultegra level chain.

Edit... I didn't realize that the current Dura-Ace and Ultegra chains have the same HG-X11 markings on them.

Last edited by: jimatbeyond: Feb 6, 19 9:01

Re: Awful grinding noise Dura Ace 9100 Series [Avoneer] [ In reply to ]

Feb 6, 19 8:38

Post #29 of 44 Views: 4899

Avoneer wrote:

SummitAK wrote:

Avoneer wrote:

Hi,

My advice would be to buy a Dura-Ace chain.

Pat.

See the OP's third sentence.

Who then says it's a HGX11 which is not a Dura-Ace chain!

Nope. The HG-X11 designation isn’t the part number for the chain. It is the Shimano designation for their latest series road chains. The DA version and Ultegra version carry this same naming convention and then 900 and 700 series part numbers as in the past series. OP said DuraAce chain. So unless otherwise stated, he is using CN-HG901-11. He does mention trying his older DA901 chain too.

https://bike.shimano.com/...t/duraace-r9100.html

Re: Awful grinding noise Dura Ace 9100 Series [BrianJ] [ In reply to ]

Jul 28, 19 10:17

Post #30 of 44 Views: 4642

I am having the same problem with 9100 crankset. I had 9000 on and it's fine. I keep swapping the two and everytime I have the 9100 crankset on, the grinding vibration would travel to my music earbuds. The RD and FD are 8050 and chain are not worn and they are DA chain for 11 speed. All components stay the same and no grind noise on 9000 crankset.
It does help a little if I do not tighten the crank arm fixing bolt as much.
Did you ended up finding a solution for it?

Re: Awful grinding noise Dura Ace 9100 Series [titemple652] [ In reply to ]

Jul 28, 19 11:48

Post #31 of 44 Views: 4606

Do you hear is sitting and standing?

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Re: Awful grinding noise Dura Ace 9100 Series [titemple652] [ In reply to ]

Dec 2, 19 1:09

Post #32 of 44 Views: 4336

Hi, I am having a similar issue with my cassette from the 4largest cogs. Did anyone ever get a fix?

Re: Awful grinding noise Dura Ace 9100 Series [loxx0050] [ In reply to ]

Dec 2, 19 3:16

Post #33 of 44 Views: 4317

Do you use wax based lube?

I use molten speed wax and I found that when I ride over a little dirty area or if it has rained, my drivetrain makes an awful grinding noise. It goes away momentarily when I switch gear and comes back within a few revolutions of the crank.
It usually does go away as I ride though. Can't be great for the drivetrain I suppose but I'm so happy with wax based otherwise that I've learned to live with it.

Re: Awful grinding noise Dura Ace 9100 Series [g.e.] [ In reply to ]

Dec 2, 19 3:23

Post #34 of 44 Views: 4312

Dose not seem to be wax/lube related. It’s really loud when putting power through or when climbing. Then will randomly disappear and then come back again. It’s driving me nuts... people riding with me yesterday saying what’s wrong with your bike...

Re: Awful grinding noise Dura Ace 9100 Series [KevinSLR] [ In reply to ]

Dec 2, 19 3:35

Post #35 of 44 Views: 4302

KevinSLR wrote:

Dose not seem to be wax/lube related. It’s really loud when putting power through or when climbing. Then will randomly disappear and then come back again. It’s driving me nuts... people riding with me yesterday saying what’s wrong with your bike...

Exact same though. When I'm pushing higher watts on a climb I hear it. Then it goes away after a while climb or no climb.
It only happens to me on iffy weather / sand dirt situations.
It never happened before on other lubes.
It also never happened in dry weather.

So it's not so much wax lube but wax lube in bad conditions for me. I might be wrong but have proven 3-4 times now since it started raining here in Bay Area.

Re: Awful grinding noise Dura Ace 9100 Series [g.e.] [ In reply to ]

Dec 2, 19 4:13

Post #36 of 44 Views: 4289

Maybe that’s it, there was a lot of grime on the roads and salt/grit due to freezing weather. Maybe that’s something to do with it.
I just sounds so terrible like bearings being mashed... bike is only a couple of months old

Re: Awful grinding noise Dura Ace 9100 Series [KevinSLR] [ In reply to ]

Dec 2, 19 4:19

Post #37 of 44 Views: 4287

KevinSLR wrote:

Maybe that’s it, there was a lot of grime on the roads and salt/grit due to freezing weather. Maybe that’s something to do with it.
I just sounds so terrible like bearings being mashed... bike is only a couple of months old

Yep. "Crap, my BB bearings are shot" was the first thing that I thought but it was just the chain. It even felt grimey to touch but thankfully wax does a good job of keeping that stuff out of the rollers. Once dry, I imagine they just flicker off the chain and it's back to quiet again.

Re: Awful grinding noise Dura Ace 9100 Series [g.e.] [ In reply to ]

Dec 2, 19 5:31

Post #38 of 44 Views: 4260

Strange thing is it only happens on the 4 largest cogs though...

Re: Awful grinding noise Dura Ace 9100 Series [KevinSLR] [ In reply to ]

Dec 2, 19 13:56

Post #39 of 44 Views: 4198

Is your clearance from FD cage to large ring appropriate and is the cage parallel to the big ring?

I had this issue earlier in the season and it was the big ring hitting the cage in certain situations....ugh.....I had the cage too tight to the big ring which was more noticeable in certain "trim" positions.

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Re: Awful grinding noise Dura Ace 9100 Series [cmscat50] [ In reply to ]

Dec 3, 19 3:07

Post #40 of 44 Views: 4169

Thanks for the reply, FD looks fine, have had it back to the shop to double check. Definitely coming from the rear wheel. Will drop it back in later in the week and get them to check free hub etc.

Re: Awful grinding noise Dura Ace 9100 Series [KevinSLR] [ In reply to ]

Dec 3, 19 14:14

Post #41 of 44 Views: 4123

Your chain is too long.

In the last four (largest) cogs of your Cassette, the upper pulley is rubbing the Cassette because the chain has too much slack.
Remove a link pair from your chain and try it again.

I had this problem with my DA 9100 groupset because I like to Keep my chains one link longer than recommended. The noise did not bother me at first but I got tired of it. So I cut my chain by a link and voila - noise and rubbing disappeared.

Let me know if that works for you.

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Re: Awful grinding noise Dura Ace 9100 Series [titemple652] [ In reply to ]

Dec 3, 19 17:51

Post #42 of 44 Views: 4090

My issue was solved, it was a completely worn chain ring.

Re: Awful grinding noise Dura Ace 9100 Series [titemple652] [ In reply to ]

Dec 6, 19 12:08

Post #43 of 44 Views: 4017

Thanks for coming back.

LBS has regreased my free hub so I think that has sorted it. Hope to get a good spin tomorrow to test it out. Will post back the results 👍

Re: Awful grinding noise Dura Ace 9100 Series [KevinSLR] [ In reply to ]

Jan 18, 20 13:51

Post #44 of 44 Views: 3791

KevinSLR wrote:

Thanks for coming back.

LBS has regreased my free hub so I think that has sorted it. Hope to get a good spin tomorrow to test it out. Will post back the results 👍

Still not sorted this noise out.. trying a new cassette tomorrow to see if that works. If not it must be the wheel.

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