He is describing ignorance that sex with a minor is a statutory offense and consent of the minor or other factors really do not come into play for a defense. So, ignorant of the law…
Ignorance of the law usually means you’re unaware of what the law is (i.e. in this case, that it’s illegal to have sex with someone under 18), not that you’re mistaken about some facts related to breaking the law.
You know what, go ahead and just believe you can simply assume that a female drinking an alcoholic beverage in a public establishment is more than enough for you to know she is 21. Try that with the judge too when it turns out she was 17. Report back with your results.
Why in the world would I do that?
We’re just having a discussion, there’s no need to get in a huff.
You know what, go ahead and just believe you can simply assume that a female drinking an alcoholic beverage in a public establishment is more than enough for you to know she is 21. Try that with the judge too when it turns out she was 17. Report back with your results.
Come on man, you know what he is saying and why he’s saying it. There has to be some responsibility on the part of the minor at this point. A person can’t read someone’s mind and know their age. He’s not saying it’s right, he’s not saying anything about Gaetz one way or the other, he’s making a point that there should be some responsibility if a person has done all of their due diligence.
There really isn’t. Have sex with someone who is a minor, get charged, go to jail. All of the burden is on the adult. Hazards of chasing after people on the cusp of adulthood.
Some states have distinctions based on how much older someone is. So if you are less than 5 years older for instance it is a lower offense than if you are Matt Gaetz’s age. Of course the vast majority of cases are never prosecuted because the underage person actually wanted it to happen and no one knows or doesn’t care. It is when you piss off the parents, or in this case the FBI when they are investigating one of your close allies, that you get sent to the pokey.
You know what, go ahead and just believe you can simply assume that a female drinking an alcoholic beverage in a public establishment is more than enough for you to know she is 21. Try that with the judge too when it turns out she was 17. Report back with your results.
Come on man, you know what he is saying and why he’s saying it. There has to be some responsibility on the part of the minor at this point. A person can’t read someone’s mind and know their age. He’s not saying it’s right, he’s not saying anything about Gaetz one way or the other, he’s making a point that there should be some responsibility if a person has done all of their due diligence.
There really isn’t. Have sex with someone who is a minor, get charged, go to jail. All of the burden is on the adult. Hazards of chasing after people on the cusp of adulthood.
Some states have distinctions based on how much older someone is. So if you are less than 5 years older for instance it is a lower offense than if you are Matt Gaetz’s age. Of course the vast majority of cases are never prosecuted because the underage person actually wanted it to happen and no one knows or doesn’t care. It is when you piss off the parents, or in this case the FBI when they are investigating one of your close allies, that you get sent to the pokey.
I suspect the pun wasn’t intended but I laughed
You know what, go ahead and just believe you can simply assume that a female drinking an alcoholic beverage in a public establishment is more than enough for you to know she is 21. Try that with the judge too when it turns out she was 17. Report back with your results.
Come on man, you know what he is saying and why he’s saying it. There has to be some responsibility on the part of the minor at this point. A person can’t read someone’s mind and know their age. He’s not saying it’s right, he’s not saying anything about Gaetz one way or the other, he’s making a point that there should be some responsibility if a person has done all of their due diligence.
There really isn’t. Have sex with someone who is a minor, get charged, go to jail. All of the burden is on the adult. Hazards of chasing after people on the cusp of adulthood.
Some states have distinctions based on how much older someone is. So if you are less than 5 years older for instance it is a lower offense than if you are Matt Gaetz’s age. Of course the vast majority of cases are never prosecuted because the underage person actually wanted it to happen and no one knows or doesn’t care. It is when you piss off the parents, or in this case the FBI when they are investigating one of your close allies, that you get sent to the pokey.
You know what they say, “Buyer Beware.”
You know what, go ahead and just believe you can simply assume that a female drinking an alcoholic beverage in a public establishment is more than enough for you to know she is 21. Try that with the judge too when it turns out she was 17. Report back with your results.
Come on man, you know what he is saying and why he’s saying it. There has to be some responsibility on the part of the minor at this point. A person can’t read someone’s mind and know their age. He’s not saying it’s right, he’s not saying anything about Gaetz one way or the other, he’s making a point that there should be some responsibility if a person has done all of their due diligence.
There really isn’t. Have sex with someone who is a minor, get charged, go to jail. All of the burden is on the adult. Hazards of chasing after people on the cusp of adulthood.
Some states have distinctions based on how much older someone is. So if you are less than 5 years older for instance it is a lower offense than if you are Matt Gaetz’s age. Of course the vast majority of cases are never prosecuted because the underage person actually wanted it to happen and no one knows or doesn’t care. It is when you piss off the parents, or in this case the FBI when they are investigating one of your close allies, that you get sent to the pokey.
I suspect the pun wasn’t intended but I laughed
Of course it was intended.
You know what, go ahead and just believe you can simply assume that a female drinking an alcoholic beverage in a public establishment is more than enough for you to know she is 21. Try that with the judge too when it turns out she was 17. Report back with your results.
Come on man, you know what he is saying and why he’s saying it. There has to be some responsibility on the part of the minor at this point. A person can’t read someone’s mind and know their age. He’s not saying it’s right, he’s not saying anything about Gaetz one way or the other, he’s making a point that there should be some responsibility if a person has done all of their due diligence.
There really isn’t. Have sex with someone who is a minor, get charged, go to jail. All of the burden is on the adult. Hazards of chasing after people on the cusp of adulthood.
Some states have distinctions based on how much older someone is. So if you are less than 5 years older for instance it is a lower offense than if you are Matt Gaetz’s age. Of course the vast majority of cases are never prosecuted because the underage person actually wanted it to happen and no one knows or doesn’t care. It is when you piss off the parents, or in this case the FBI when they are investigating one of your close allies, that you get sent to the pokey.
I guess it just screws with my sense of justice. You want to go after people who are knowingly doing something wrong or else you’re really not protecting society. Going after someone who is duped into a crime they had no idea they were committing makes zero sense to me.
So claims are he travelled with her (assume airplane) and paid her way. To get on an airplane requires birthdate in your ticket request. Assume under 18 she didn’t have her own credit card. Guilty as charged, he knew her age.
So claims are he travelled with her (assume airplane) and paid her way. To get on an airplane requires birthdate in your ticket request. Assume under 18 she didn’t have her own credit card. Guilty as charged, he knew her age.
I’m with you. If he is flying some girl around, putting her up in hotels, etc., there is likely ZERO chance that he didn’t know she was seventeen. He, and his dick, just didn’t care. He’s an arrogant, entitled, awful human being and it might catch up with him.
Every law enforcement agency in the US would disagree with you. Lack of knowledge of her age is not something that would matter to them charging and finding you guilty.
That just seems crazy.
How could a person know? Their ID even says they are 21+.
I would think it matter for findings of guilt at least, which is done by courts (including juries) not law enforcement agencies.
When I was younger, 21 living in Florida, me and my buddy were at a picnic and there were a couple of girls flirting with us. We asked my friends SIL what their names were and if she knew anything about them. She told us their names and said, “oh, the one on the left is 14 and the one on the right is 15.” They looked a lot older than 14 & 15. We left the picnic.
My daughter is 15. Sometimes, she goes to the college gym with me where I work out. I don’t think she looks any younger than what I presume are the mostly 18-22 year old girls working out there. She’s been mistaken for a college age girl more than once, and it’s not like she even has a particularly womanly figure.
The law simply doesn’t care. If “I thought she was 18” was a valid defense then age of consent laws could hardly ever be prosecuted. If they are under 18 you are guilty, and I’m not sure how many juries will really be all that sympathetic to someone in their mid to late 30’s making that claim. 21 or 22 years old, maybe. 38? Please.
Yeah I get that. My comments prior were specific to someone under 18 hooking up with someone older who they met in a bar, and even having an ID that shows they are 21+.
I find it hard to believe that any jury in those circumstances would convict someone of statutory rape. I know I wouldn’t. There’s the law and then there’s justice.
I’m trying to remember who it was, and it seems like it was a MLB player but not sure ( I found the story and it looks like it was Felipe Vasquez ). He, hooked up with a 13 year old and used the “I thought she was 16” defense. Oof.
Yeah that would be hard one to pull off.
I know we have some lawyers around here. If a person is duped into breaking the law would that really be prosecuted let alone get a conviction?
As for the conviction: you can only introduce evidence in your defense that is relevant to your case. Someone under the age of 18 is legally incapable of consenting to sex. Hence, your (mistaken) state of mind does not give you a defense of consent.
I can see a judge considering such evidence when it comes to sentencing. And, I can see a jury looking at the victim and crediting the defendant with a defense that she looks 18+. But, technically speaking, it’s not a defense to guilt, as far as I know.
ETA: some states’s laws are different. But, FL is like what I described above. Statutory rape in FL is strict liability and ignorance of the victim’s age appears to not be a defense.
I’m not suggesting “she looks 18” is the defense, I’m suggesting “she was in a place and engaging in behavior that only 21+ year olds can legally engage in” is the defense.
I suppose we could even take it further. What if she showed the other person proof that she was 21+ with her ID?
I know what you’re saying and, as a technical matter, it does not make that evidence admissible at the guilt phase. Her age was what it was. The defendant’s reasons don’t matter at the guilt phase. I was merely pointing out that there are other ways in which the full story might still play a role: in the prosecutor’s discretionary decision whether to bring a case, at the sentencing phase, and perhaps even in the jury wrongly crediting the defendant with a defense. I agree with you that one could imagine a situation where this would all seem rather harsh. And, the prosecutor and the judge have ways to take that into account. But, technically, it is not admissible at the guilt phase, based on my quick reading of FL law.
You know what, go ahead and just believe you can simply assume that a female drinking an alcoholic beverage in a public establishment is more than enough for you to know she is 21. Try that with the judge too when it turns out she was 17. Report back with your results.
Come on man, you know what he is saying and why he’s saying it. There has to be some responsibility on the part of the minor at this point. A person can’t read someone’s mind and know their age. He’s not saying it’s right, he’s not saying anything about Gaetz one way or the other, he’s making a point that there should be some responsibility if a person has done all of their due diligence.
There really isn’t. Have sex with someone who is a minor, get charged, go to jail. All of the burden is on the adult. Hazards of chasing after people on the cusp of adulthood.
Some states have distinctions based on how much older someone is. So if you are less than 5 years older for instance it is a lower offense than if you are Matt Gaetz’s age. Of course the vast majority of cases are never prosecuted because the underage person actually wanted it to happen and no one knows or doesn’t care. It is when you piss off the parents, or in this case the FBI when they are investigating one of your close allies, that you get sent to the pokey.
I guess it just screws with my sense of justice. You want to go after people who are knowingly doing something wrong or else you’re really not protecting society. Going after someone who is duped into a crime they had no idea they were committing makes zero sense to me.
Do you know if your BAC is .07 or .08? Sometimes it is on you to know even if knowing isn’t very easy.
I get where you are coming from, but the whole goal of the law is to protect young people, even if it is against themselves, and the responsibility lies on the adult, even if they are as dumb as Matt Gaetz.
Oh, and statutory rape laws are different from the federal sex trafficking law we are talking about. A majority of states have an age of consent for sex under 18. I think the sex trafficking law is about transporting people under 18 for the purposes of having sex with them, which is what the ally of Gaetz, Joel Greenburg, was being investigated for.
Summary of statutory rape laws - https://www.cga.ct.gov/2003/olrdata/jud/rpt/2003-r-0376.htm
Every law enforcement agency in the US would disagree with you. Lack of knowledge of her age is not something that would matter to them charging and finding you guilty.
That just seems crazy.
How could a person know? Their ID even says they are 21+.
I would think it matter for findings of guilt at least, which is done by courts (including juries) not law enforcement agencies.
When I was younger, 21 living in Florida, me and my buddy were at a picnic and there were a couple of girls flirting with us. We asked my friends SIL what their names were and if she knew anything about them. She told us their names and said, “oh, the one on the left is 14 and the one on the right is 15.” They looked a lot older than 14 & 15. We left the picnic.
My daughter is 15. Sometimes, she goes to the college gym with me where I work out. I don’t think she looks any younger than what I presume are the mostly 18-22 year old girls working out there. She’s been mistaken for a college age girl more than once, and it’s not like she even has a particularly womanly figure.
The law simply doesn’t care. If “I thought she was 18” was a valid defense then age of consent laws could hardly ever be prosecuted. If they are under 18 you are guilty, and I’m not sure how many juries will really be all that sympathetic to someone in their mid to late 30’s making that claim. 21 or 22 years old, maybe. 38? Please.
Yeah I get that. My comments prior were specific to someone under 18 hooking up with someone older who they met in a bar, and even having an ID that shows they are 21+.
I find it hard to believe that any jury in those circumstances would convict someone of statutory rape. I know I wouldn’t. There’s the law and then there’s justice.
I’m trying to remember who it was, and it seems like it was a MLB player but not sure ( I found the story and it looks like it was Felipe Vasquez ). He, hooked up with a 13 year old and used the “I thought she was 16” defense. Oof.
Yeah that would be hard one to pull off.
I know we have some lawyers around here. If a person is duped into breaking the law would that really be prosecuted let alone get a conviction?
As for the conviction: you can only introduce evidence in your defense that is relevant to your case. Someone under the age of 18 is legally incapable of consenting to sex. Hence, your (mistaken) state of mind does not give you a defense of consent.
I can see a judge considering such evidence when it comes to sentencing. And, I can see a jury looking at the victim and crediting the defendant with a defense that she looks 18+. But, technically speaking, it’s not a defense to guilt, as far as I know.
ETA: some states’s laws are different. But, FL is like what I described above. Statutory rape in FL is strict liability and ignorance of the victim’s age appears to not be a defense.
I’m not suggesting “she looks 18” is the defense, I’m suggesting “she was in a place and engaging in behavior that only 21+ year olds can legally engage in” is the defense.
I suppose we could even take it further. What if she showed the other person proof that she was 21+ with her ID?
I know what you’re saying and, as a technical matter, it does not make that evidence admissible at the guilt phase. Her age was what it was. The defendant’s reasons don’t matter at the guilt phase. I was merely pointing out that there are other ways in which the full story might still play a role: in the prosecutor’s discretionary decision whether to bring a case, at the sentencing phase, and perhaps even in the jury wrongly crediting the defendant with a defense. I agree with you that one could imagine a situation where this would all seem rather harsh. And, the prosecutor and the judge have ways to take that into account. But, technically, it is not admissible at the guilt phase, based on my quick reading of FL law.
I guess that’s how we get to the statutory rape cases that make the news from time to time because they rile people’s sense of justice. At least in some states they’ve added that age discrepancy bit so you don’t get some 18 year old kid convicted of raping his 17 year old partner.
backpfeifengesicht battle of the titans.
Who wins?
I do have two fists.
Funny how that one never ended up in the Qanon folks’ playbook… Well… even if they missed it, surely they’ve grabbed on to it and run wild by now, right?.. Or maybe, this echoing and conspicuous silence could ALMOST lead you to believe that it was all just a bunch of politically motivated hacks regurgitating these sloppy lies because they knew that the dumbest people in the world would happily latch onto anything that could be used to demonize their political opponents… Of course, that would make everyone "we-should-be-looking-into"ing those lies monstrous humans or absolute dupes… Definitely not the sort of people who should be major influences in a quasi-legitimate political party… So we MUST be missing something here…
I’m really, really hoping that our collective societal memory doesn’t allow anyone to pretend all the things that were said and done by people between 2015-2021 were excusable, or things that shouldn’t permanently and irreparably harm people credibility.
So claims are he travelled with her (assume airplane) and paid her way. To get on an airplane requires birthdate in your ticket request. Assume under 18 she didn’t have her own credit card. Guilty as charged, he knew her age.
They were simply together to discus Russian adoptions
You know what, go ahead and just believe you can simply assume that a female drinking an alcoholic beverage in a public establishment is more than enough for you to know she is 21. Try that with the judge too when it turns out she was 17. Report back with your results.
Come on man, you know what he is saying and why he’s saying it. There has to be some responsibility on the part of the minor at this point. A person can’t read someone’s mind and know their age. He’s not saying it’s right, he’s not saying anything about Gaetz one way or the other, he’s making a point that there should be some responsibility if a person has done all of their due diligence.
There really isn’t. Have sex with someone who is a minor, get charged, go to jail. All of the burden is on the adult. Hazards of chasing after people on the cusp of adulthood.
Some states have distinctions based on how much older someone is. So if you are less than 5 years older for instance it is a lower offense than if you are Matt Gaetz’s age. Of course the vast majority of cases are never prosecuted because the underage person actually wanted it to happen and no one knows or doesn’t care. It is when you piss off the parents, or in this case the FBI when they are investigating one of your close allies, that you get sent to the pokey.
I guess it just screws with my sense of justice. You want to go after people who are knowingly doing something wrong or else you’re really not protecting society. Going after someone who is duped into a crime they had no idea they were committing makes zero sense to me.
Do you know if your BAC is .07 or .08? Sometimes it is on you to know even if knowing isn’t very easy.
I get where you are coming from, but the whole goal of the law is to protect young people, even if it is against themselves, and the responsibility lies on the adult, even if they are as dumb as Matt Gaetz.
Oh, and statutory rape laws are different from the federal sex trafficking law we are talking about. A majority of states have an age of consent for sex under 18. I think the sex trafficking law is about transporting people under 18 for the purposes of having sex with them, which is what the ally of Gaetz, Joel Greenburg, was being investigated for.
Summary of statutory rape laws - https://www.cga.ct.gov/.../rpt/2003-r-0376.htm
Just to be clear, nothing I’ve said refers to Gaetz. I’m not defending that guy, or actually anyone 
I guess I just don’t see how you’re protecting young people by prosecuting someone who wasn’t interested in having sex with a minor and was in essence tricked into doing so? I would assume the normal route for the guy going after minors isn’t to hook up with them in bars.
This is somewhat similar to mike Vick. He got in real trouble for transporting dogs across state lines to fight. The federal laws would not have applied. (I think the state laws for felonies at the time were that the dogs had to die. Whereas the federal crime was just transporting the dogs to commit a crime).
Someone REEEEEAAAALLLLYYYY needs to go through this guy’s Twitter with a bucket and a mop to scrub it clean.
ETA the link, because the recent replies are pretty good - https://twitter.com/mattgaetz/status/897946853437833217
He is describing ignorance that sex with a minor is a statutory offense and consent of the minor or other factors really do not come into play for a defense. So, ignorant of the law…
He’s not describing ignorance of the statute. He’s talking about being lied to about the facts such that you don’t think you’re committing a crime.
I think we all get that if you just didn’t know sex with a minor was against the law, that’s no defense.
I think we all get that if you thought the minor was able to consent, that’s no defense.
Thisisit is talking about a situation in which the defendant reasonably thought he was having sex with an adult, because he was lied to by the minor.
That’s not ignorance of the law.
Lied to about the facts? Really?
How many people do you know that used fake ID’s?
I amend my statement. Straight up ignorance. That is all. Not just of the law, just straight up ignorant.