I’ve done a few group rides, races (C Group) and group workouts on Zwift and have been surprised each time of the pace of the pack. I could not keep up. I have an honest current weight and recent FTP test to equal 3.65 watt/kg. It makes me wonder if some people are putting in ideal weight vs actual.
Anyone else have problems keeping with the group or is it a major case of HTFU?
It’s the Internet what do you think?
Id say that there are some cheaters in regards to either zpower or “ideal weight” users. However, for the most part its a great training tool to keep motivation on rides/races.
I’m in the C group as well and struggle on climbs with an FTP of 3.8w/kg.
My buddies in the B Group have an FTP of between 4.2 and 4.7 w/kg and sometimes do well and sometimes finish mid-pack.
I know there are a ton of top tier riders out there (cat 1/Domestic pro) that hang in the A Group and are near 5.0 watts/kg
I think its a pretty fair measuring stick in that regard. Its easy to go out to a local ride and feel strong… but when you get all the top riders from each area it really puts things in perspective with those group races. I love it.
You have to take any and all zwift races with a grain of salt (currently) because so many things you don’t know that are variables, and that’s assuming they are racing with power (and not zpower which opens up even more questions)
Does the person have a smart trainer? What kind of power meter? Is it set up right? Do they calibrate? Does it estimate?
I normally categorize myself as a B (around 4w/kg ftp) sometimes I end the ride with the A group, other times I end up with a bunch of “C” riders minutes ahead of me. It’s just part of it right now.
That said, you are riding with people across the world, and to have the means/time/investment to play a dedicated cycling game you would have to expect a lot of them are more than casual cyclists. So there are likely some real beasts on.
I have found my Tacx Vortex is giving about an 8% increase in watts over my Stages PM. I haven’t raced on Zwift yet but I have altered my weight to hang with slower or faster group rides. I find it hard to find a group that is at my 3 to 3.5 w/kg at the times I can ride. If it’s a recovery day and there is a <2w/kg group I’ll add 10lbs and I’m not shooting off the front. That being said, it can be frustrating to see someone fly by at 8w/kg, and hold 5.5w/kg for entire lap on Z-Power.
I’ve wondered this before when someone blows by at 10+watt/kg and keeps holding it.
I got passed by the USS group ride and they were all holding 4-5+. I felt like:
http://33.media.tumblr.com/d8b326dd4b7469d61b1fe98a0296aa1e/tumblr_mq1lg7bkKN1r29i3uo4_400.gif
I ride on the pointy end in the A group of my local scene, but I too find that the Zwift races tend to be humbling. I like the challenge and have an FTP of about 4.7 w/kg but I think I’m going to race the B races to see if that is more reasonable. I don’t think there is necessarily so much cheating as the talent pool is worldwide and quite a bit deeper. Also a one hour race with punchy climbs isn’t my strength. There is a 65km or ~2 hour race on Jan 27 (Zwifta bianchi) that should be interesting to see if that format changes the dynamic a little.
It’s a combination in your case. 1) There are a lot of people on Zwift who don’t have real power meters so fudge the system by using BS weight with BS “Z Power”. 2) A 3.6w/kg FTP is middle of the road so it’s not unrealistic that 50% of the users are both faster and slower than you.
I agree that it is a great training tool and adds a fun dimension to indoor winter riding.
I haven’t paid much attention to how many riders with zpower//virtual power are on the system- as well as the calibration variables also mentioned.
I’d be really pleased if is simply a lot of riders that are strong. That puts my fitness in perspective and will certainly motivate me more.
I’ve got both a CycleOps PowerBeam trainer and a Pioneer PM I can/have used. With both calibrated properly my PowerBeam gives me about 0.5w/kg extra at ftp over the Pioneer. That’s not a Zwift thing, it’s not intentional, it’s just that my PowerBeam reads high.
The 2 hour race would be interesting. If you lose the peloton it would be a world of hurt trying to catch up for 50km.
Probably a combination of strong riders, miscalibrated power meters, wrong virtual power (wheel slipping, tension wrong, wrong trainer selected), defective smart trainers, and finally people who accidentally or deliberately entered wrong info like their weight.
The trouble is, there’s no way to know who’s who and who does what on the Internet. We are all just a screen name and an avatar.
Reminds me of the saying. The Internet! Where men are men. Women are men. And teenage girls are undercover cops.
I’ve wondered this before when someone blows by at 10+watt/kg and keeps holding it.
I got passed by the USS group ride and they were all holding 4-5+. I felt like:
http://33.media.tumblr.com/...kKN1r29i3uo4_400.gif
I do the USS group rides on Sundays. I average about 280 watts for the ride which is a little over an hour long and I weigh 170lbs. So that is definitely not world class level by a long stretch, but it is a fairly fast group ride.
Having said that, there are a LOT of Zpower riders that have completely unrealistic times on climbs, etc.
I’ve wondered this before when someone blows by at 10+watt/kg and keeps holding it.
I got passed by the USS group ride and they were all holding 4-5+. I felt like:
http://33.media.tumblr.com/d8b326dd4b7469d61b1fe98a0296aa1e/tumblr_mq1lg7bkKN1r29i3uo4_400.gif
I have ridden with the USS group the last two Sunday’s and I believe the majority of those riders are playing fair. There was a 23 yr old pro in that group the Sunday before last and he was killing us. Dropped me before the end of the first lap. Both time that I rode with them we formed a second group and finished at around a 3.5 average. It’s not a race so I didn’t care. Still had a great workout and was gassed at the end. A heck of a lot more fun then sitting on the trainer watching football.
Yeah, I actually meant that as two separate comments, didn’t mean to imply the whole group was cheating or something. It was just crazy to see the comments of where they were and knowing they were getting close, then just being completely enveloped and passed. There are definitely some folks on there that are very talented/well trained.
It’s one of the most ridiculous things about “competing” on Zwift. Want to go faster? Just weigh less.
They should add a “Validated Rider” feature, where the user gets a special badge or token added if they step on an ANT+ scale before the ride and record their weight. But even that is subject to fudging.
It’s one of the most ridiculous things about “competing” on Zwift. Want to go faster? Just weigh less.
They should add a “Validated Rider” feature, where the user gets a special badge or token added if they step on an ANT+ scale before the ride and record their weight. But even that is subject to fudging.
The ANT+ or at least a WiFi scale like a FitBit scale that is linked to Zwift might be required to race. But then again, a little assist by a towel rack when you’re stepping on the scale might help shed a few pounds. So there is really no way to police it. I do know that a guy that is running one of the TT’s is reviewing peoples Zwift and Strava profiles to see if the racers are all of a sudden finding unusual speed and power numbers on race day.
Yeah, I actually meant that as two separate comments, didn’t mean to imply the whole group was cheating or something. It was just crazy to see the comments of where they were and knowing they were getting close, then just being completely enveloped and passed. There are definitely some folks on there that are very talented/well trained.
Didn’t think you were accusing anyone of anything. I know that some of the games more seasoned riders were in that group. Which is why I’m going to try to hang with them this offseason as long as I can. Just like in real life, the best way to get fast is ride with stronger riders. At least this way I’m not left alone on an unfamiliar road trying to navigate my way home. My ego can handle being dropped in a video game. If you are riding next Sunday and you see us coming try and jump on. I’ll be looking forming a second group at some point.
Don’t forget that there’s a “the other checkout line is faster than mine” bias going on - we tend to focus on the people passing us rather than the people we pass. Keep in mind too that if you’re a triathlete, you’re also dividing your time between 3 sports. There should be a class of cyclists who, all else equal, kick our butts.
I have no doubt that people are fudging the numbers though, even if it is the less serious “this is my ideal race weight” which gets input. The best metric is vs yourself, or vs a group of riders who are at the same “virtual” ability - however that is defined.
I’ll bet its a lot of virtualpower miscalculations. Before I went Kickr/Powermeter, my Cycelops “virtualpower” pegged me at FTP of 300. Then I got a powermeter, and it was sad to see the real numbers were nowhere near as high…