I think those people would do stupid stuff regardless of how/where they trained. Much like I do stupid stuff with my money.
Some people just don’t get it, if I allow room for their errors, I stay safer.
Zen tri brett: I agree with your point. I spend tons of time on my Zwift and love it. In the winter, with possible black ice where I live it’s the only way to go.
But I’ve been riding a ton for 40 years now and after a few outdoor rides each spring I know what I’m doing at speed in tight quarters. My post was to solicit input from my ST peers about whether or not Zwift (and other similar platforms) might be leading to unintended consequences…
What do you think?
True dat!
I was talking to some fellow fanatics post AC 70.3 yesterday. Lots of crashes, which are easily attributable to the rain and bike concentration due to 3 laps. That said, I saw some really strong cyclists powering by me only to do really dumb things (like leaning into an apex at very high speed and discovering that a man hole cover isn’t nice to that in the rain, or a couple of other times blasting into a turn and then hitting the brakes during the turn…). Yard sale city!
Couldn’t help wondering if Zwift is amping the power/skill ratio and maybe leading to more accidents…
As noted-it’s not just Zwift, but anyone who trains indoors vs outdoors-and if you don’t train in conditions similar to race conditions, why should you expect to do well or not risk injury?
I train in hot/cold/rain/wind and with my race wheels (808’s front/rear) so I can handle the winds. But I also realize that I have to stop for stop signs and getting good workouts in is harder on the road and the trainer is far more efficient. Zwift has been my savior in making the stupid f’in trainer more tolerable.
But, the unexpected always will leave less experienced cyclists at a disadvantage. Rainy conditions were the unexpected.
There were lots of disadvantaged people on the bike course at IMAC. Why? IDK. We could all speculate, but I’d say that the number of first timers was part of it as well as the number of people who* predominately *train indoors being another part of it.
that said-I LOVE LOVE being outside on my bike and will NEVER NEVER stop
It’s a fine hypothesis. But you need to show that there are proportionally more crashes now than in the past. And these crashes are more common in Zwifters (or simply indoor trainers). Or a better metric might be cumulative time inside vs outside. And I might predict that there is a threshold of outside riding so that if you meet that threshold you are skilled enough, it doesn’t matter how much inside riding you’d be doing.
Another factor could be these riders are stronger than they should be because of doping.
Another factor could be these riders are stronger than they should be because of doping.
Pink?
People who ride mostly outdoors are generally better “cyclists” than those that ride mostly on a turbo, and people who ride in groups tend to be the better of the bunch.
Strong rider does not equal Good cyclist
You absolutely have to ride outdoors to become a good cyclist. Some solo skills you must have:
- take a corner at speed
- properly hit the apex descending
- drink from your handheld water bottle at speed
- stop on a dime without crashing
- bunny hop small debris
- ride out of the saddle, preferably without rocking
- climb in a straight line
You don’t get that on the turbo. There’s a time and place for turbo and it’s an integral part of training. But try to develop some actual skills as well, don’t be a total fred out there.
You absolutely have to ride outdoors to become a good cyclist. Some solo skills you must have:
- take a corner at speed
- properly hit the apex descending
- drink from your handheld water bottle at speed
- stop on a dime without crashing
- bunny hop small debris
- ride out of the saddle, preferably without rocking
- climb in a straight line
You don’t get that on the turbo. There’s a time and place for turbo and it’s an integral part of training. But try to develop some actual skills as well, don’t be a total fred out there.
You used the term “Fred.” The last time I used that was in a thread entitled “You’re Going to Get Yelled at If…” on another forum. We should start using it more around here 
Add to that list an understanding of traffic dynamics and intersection strategies. I truly believe the people who are afraid of riding outside were never shown how to safely interact with traffic.
Also, don’t forget that you have to be able to get a snack out of the center back pocket of your jersey and open it while riding at speed in a straight line.
I don’t of course know if they were Zwifters and thats not what I said in my post. I, and a few others, were just speculating about whether or not the rise of a lot of indoor training might lead to it…what do you think?
More than a few others believe this is the likely outcome. More poorly skilled bike riders in triathlons. What possibly could go wrong?
How many of those people you talked to might not have been there at all from being hit by a car or crashed in training, but were there because they trained indoors instead?
That’s easy: very, very few. There’s no epidemic of cyclists getting taken out left and right. The more riding is done outside, the better the riders become, and the more aware of cyclists the drivers become. Win-win.
I think also many people just aren’t actually paying attention to what’s ahead of them.
That’s how you keep from having to bunny-hop in your aerobars
Even the most observant cyclists can’t see everything in the road until it is too late to avoid. I’ve bunny-hopped on my aerobars once in my life (within the last two years or so; I remember where it was), because the hole was in shadow and I couldn’t see it until the only options were crash or bunny-hop at speed on the aerobars.
Also, don’t forget that you have to be able to get a snack out of the center back pocket of your jersey and open it while riding at speed in a straight line.
Yes! And ride no-handed… even on a TT bike. And ride really really slow in a straight line. There are so many solo skills that one should possess even prior to attempting the group ride dynamic. But when a crowded IM race turns into a glorified group ride it’s no wonder it’s a complete cluster.
Also, don’t forget that you have to be able to get a snack out of the center back pocket of your jersey and open it while riding at speed in a straight line.
I once went to a stage of the old Tour duPont in Pennsylvania (IIRC). We rode the course counter-clockwise to watch the peloton go by a few times. Once, they came by at speed in a large bunch, and I was amazed to see guys sitting in the middle of the group taking off their jackets.
Once, they came by at speed in a large bunch, and I was amazed to see guys sitting in the middle of the group taking off their jackets.
That is a fairly basic skill for serious roadies. All the guys I know who are Cat1’s and 2’s are as smooth no handed as with their hands on the bars.
I’m nowhere near that level but I have been inspired to work on riding no handed as a skill exercise and I highly recommend it. I try to end most road bike rides going no handed for a bit while cooling down.
As for clothing on the move, jackets freak me out because my arms get stuck and keeping the sleeves out of the rear wheel looks like a challenge but I can take off a vest or arm warmers and get them in a pocket no problem. I’m not confident enough to do that though without moving to the back of the pack. Taking out half the group on the Saturday coffee ride because you could not wait 10 minutes to the next stop light would be a bit hard to explain . . . . .
I lived in Florida for awhile and riding outside anywhere except the Suncoast Parkway was scary. I got very good at long trainer rides but think I lost some of my road skills. Riding in Boulder now I feel comfortable riding outside and those skills have all come back. I think a good blend of inside and outside helps keep those skills fresh.
Once, they came by at speed in a large bunch, and I was amazed to see guys sitting in the middle of the group taking off their jackets.
That is a fairly basic skill for serious roadies. All the guys I know who are Cat1’s and 2’s are as smooth no handed as with their hands on the bars.
I’m nowhere near that level but I have been inspired to work on riding no handed as a skill exercise and I highly recommend it. I try to end most road bike rides going no handed for a bit while cooling down.
As for clothing on the move, jackets freak me out because my arms get stuck and keeping the sleeves out of the rear wheel looks like a challenge but I can take off a vest or arm warmers and get them in a pocket no problem. I’m not confident enough to do that though without moving to the back of the pack. Taking out half the group on the Saturday coffee ride because you could not wait 10 minutes to the next stop light would be a bit hard to explain . . . . .
A friend of mine (top rookie at RAAM one year) could take off his jacket while on the rollers. I was thrilled I could get onto my aerobars and off while on rollers without falling over.
As for clothing on the move, jackets freak me out because my arms get stuck and keeping the sleeves out of the rear wheel looks like a challenge but I can take off a vest or arm warmers and get them in a pocket no problem. I’m not confident enough to do that though without moving to the back of the pack. Taking out half the group on the Saturday coffee ride because you could not wait 10 minutes to the next stop light would be a bit hard to explain . . .
No question you have to use some common sense when it comes to stuff like that. Sunday during a club tour ride I took a water bottle out of my jacket pocket and handed it to my riding partner, removed my jacket and tied it around my waist, and then took the water bottle back and put it in my jersey pocket, all while riding a slight uphill at about 18 mph and talking. A group of women that watched me do it were not impressed and thought it was just showing off and dangerous. I told them it was only dangerous if you were a Fred or Freda. They didn’t get the insult.
There seem to be a lot of riding skills that were common in the 80’s and 90’s that have been lost with the new riders. I guess us old guys are to blame for not holding the standards that we were held to, or we could blame the technology.
Triathletes have always been labeled as having poor handling skills and making bad cycling judgements long before Zwift ever came to be. …Don’t blame Zwift, or the rise of smart trainers for the ineptitude of (some) triathletes;).
If you can do this on rollers, you can more than likely do it on the road. But most people are not training on rollers.
I’m not blaming anything (ultimately each of our responsibilities to have our shit together)–just wondering if it might be leading to more accidents…what do you think?
Are there more accidents than there were pre-zwift?