Been riding for a few years, and now reached a plateau where I am not improving on my own. So I’m looking for a good general structured training program to improve speed and endurance. I like zwift best of all the winter training apps so that’s where I’m looking. I was looking at the winter training plan and the ftp builder and I like the way the winter training plan looks because it starts out with long slow rides which is what I think I need. Problem is I can’t find any explanation or reviews or any banter about this plan, and before I place my trust in it for the next 12 weeks I would like some reassurance. Is this a good training program for someone looking to improve general cycling fitness?
Although I am not on the Zwift camp (I’m more a TR user myself), you can get some info about that plan here (not sure if it helps, or if it has more information than what you get inside the app).
Personally, I would not sit on the trainer during the winter and do anything z2. Focus on lifting your FTP. If I were tri training and using the zwift workout files, I would do something like the following:
Monday: off
Tuesday: 2x15 FTP Intervals, 2 miles ez run (2:00 slower than 5k pace)
Wednesday: 2-3 x 1 mile tempo run intervals (40 seconds slower than 5k pace)
Thursday: The Gorby, 2 miles ez run (2:00 slower than 5k pace)
Friday: 3-6 miles ez run
Saturday: 2x20 FTP Intervals, 2 miles ez run (2:00 slower than 5k pace)
Sunday: 2-3 x 1 mile tempo run intervals (40 seconds slower than 5k pace)
Alternatively, I think the ODZwifters schedule is also pretty good:
Week 1: VO2 544, SST 626/1233
Week 2: VO2 654, SST 726/1533
Week 3: VO2 764, SST 1533/1055
Week 4: VO2 874, SST 1533/2053
Why do you think you need long slow rides? That sounds like a recipe for total boredom and motivational death on a trainer. Also remember intensity and endurance are not enemies.
The advantage of indoor training is the controlled way it allows high intensity training and over/under threshold intervals. You can save the long slow stuff for the roads. My personal rule with Zwift is a min TSS score of 80 per hour for workouts which means you won’t be doing very many 2+hr sessions.
- will you plan to do 100% of the plan indoors?
1a) do you mind riding 10hrs+ a week on the trainer?
The winter plan peaks out at pretty high volume for indoor riding. More than some people might actually want to do indoors.
For something shorter, I actually really like the 6wk Beginner FTP Builder plan. It’s 4 workouts + 1 optional per week. Every workout is less than an hour. And I think it’s a really well laid out plan. And I think it’s suitable for any level of cyclist.
I work for Zwift. And, in particular, with a focus on this part of the product.
- will you plan to do 100% of the plan indoors?
1a) do you mind riding 10hrs+ a week on the trainer?
The winter plan peaks out at pretty high volume for indoor riding. More than some people might actually want to do indoors.
For something shorter, I actually really like the 6wk Beginner FTP Builder plan. It’s 4 workouts + 1 optional per week. Every workout is less than an hour. And I think it’s a really well laid out plan. And I think it’s suitable for any level of cyclist.
I work for Zwift. And, in particular, with a focus on this part of the product.
If you’re willing to ride the high volume, what/who would you recommend it for?
Thanks all for the great advice.
The reason I thought it would be good to do long slow rides is mainly because I’ve been finding that I have a hard time recovering after workouts. Sometimes after a hard workout, or even after a workout that I didn’t think was that hard, I feel worn out for days. I thought maybe it’s because mostly all I do is short intense workouts, and maybe I need to do some base-building. Maybe I’m wrong to link better recovery with better endurance. I also tend to overthink things, which is why I need a structured training plan that I can just follow.
Anyway, I recognize that the indoor trainer may not be the place to do endurance training, especially after reading these comments. I do have a problem with boredom when riding indoors, like most people, which is why I gravitated toward zwift in the first place. Also, I have never done a structured training plan before, and suspect that I may have a hard time sticking to it. Taking all that into consideration, it sounds like starting with the six week ftp building plan is wise advice, so maybe I will do that.
- will you plan to do 100% of the plan indoors?
1a) do you mind riding 10hrs+ a week on the trainer?
The winter plan peaks out at pretty high volume for indoor riding. More than some people might actually want to do indoors.
For something shorter, I actually really like the 6wk Beginner FTP Builder plan. It’s 4 workouts + 1 optional per week. Every workout is less than an hour. And I think it’s a really well laid out plan. And I think it’s suitable for any level of cyclist.
I work for Zwift. And, in particular, with a focus on this part of the product.
If you’re willing to ride the high volume, what/who would you recommend it for?
it’s really designed for a pure cyclist, in my opinion. Or someone in a serious, dedicated cycling block. The plan is pretty intense, both in terms of time and intensity. It’s a good plan, but not one that I think is ideal for a triathlete in the offseason.
To me, winter is really a time that most triathletes should focus on swimming and running foundation. Cycling volume should be low but with high intensity; those triathletes who participate in winter CX or gravel or MTB or fatbike racing have it right.
Basic periodization: general → specific training. For triathletes, long-and-steady is “specific,” which is why it’s best not to do that in the winter. Inverse of cyclists for whom specific often means higher intensity stuff. Basically, cyclists and triathletes should train roughly inverse of each other in terms of periodization focus. “Foundational” work for a cyclist is “Race-specific” for a long distance cyclist.
Thanks all for the great advice.
The reason I thought it would be good to do long slow rides is mainly because I’ve been finding that I have a hard time recovering after workouts. Sometimes after a hard workout, or even after a workout that I didn’t think was that hard, I feel worn out for days. I thought maybe it’s because mostly all I do is short intense workouts, and maybe I need to do some base-building. Maybe I’m wrong to link better recovery with better endurance.
If you haven’t already, get yourself checked out by your Dr. When this happened to me, it turned out I had a sinus infection. I would be shelled for 2-3 days after a hard workout. One quick round of antibiotics cleared everything up.
I work for Zwift. And, in particular, with a focus on this part of the product.
Jordan, I’m sure you are working on it, but this is the area I think Zwift could use the most improvement. Aside from a few programs (like FTP Builder you mention), there are too many workouts without any logical structure. New group workout feature also seems pot-luck.
I would like to see the group workouts grouped by type of workout by day (Mondays FTP internals, Wednesdays VO2Max session). When I see a session that says “Watt Bombs” - what is that? how does that fit into my training?
Also, maybe a plan builder of sorts would be helpful. You should have enough data to see if I a) struggle with 5 min power, b) struggle with sustain climbs, etc. and you should be able recommend a set of workouts for me.
Most books, websites, coaches seem to organize their plans around specific events (5k, 10k, Half Mary, Full Mary) and by level (Beg, Int, Adv). In this regard, I think trainerroad has a better approach.
FWIW, I love Zwift and have moved all my cycling indoors and onto the zwift platform. So I hope the company keeps up the great work.
Need to put on my proper corporate hat and say, “no comment.” But really appreciate all the good feedback.
Im sure those guys are aware and are working on something, but yeah, agree.
this is why for structured plans I would rec TR over zwift, their progression or well lack there of is bad. Most or all zwift plans are mainly just a bunch of workouts without any linear progression. Things have gotten better with having a few “good” coaches as well as Jordan helping out now.
Hi,
on the 12 week Winter Training Plan (Advanced): https://whatsonzwift.com/workouts/12wk-winter-plan-advanced/
the FTP test on Day 6 Week 8 you have 5 min at 105% FTP before actually starting the test,
whereas on day 6 week 12 you have 5 min at 125% FTP…
really 5 min at 125% FTP before doing the test? it feels a bit tough for a warmup, isn’t it more or less our max power for 8 min …
or is it the point of this FTP test compared to the one occuring on week 8 ?? I mean for sure one is going to do better on the FTP test of week 8 than week 12
appreciated the feedbacks
cheers
Vincent
105% is barely a blowout before the 20 min test, it would be pretty much the same power at the FTP test itself.
125% is on the very high end of what people would be capable of. I’d be satisfied with 115%.
Also, it’s not the warm up, it’s the part of the test that is supposed to get rid of the anaerobic component of your fitness before you test for FTP.
By knowing your best 5 min power and 20 min power, you can predict AWC which may be helpful in telling you what you are good at.
so you are saying that the 1st FTP test would be a best 20 min effort meaning you have to remove 5% to approx your real FTP value
whereas the 2nd FTP test may have been designed to approx your real FTP on the get go by lowering your anaerobic capacity meaning the value you get from this 2nd test no need to substract any %
right?
I’m saying the 5 min at 105% on the first test isn’t high enough to to remove your anaerobic abilities. The first test should have a 5 min blowout at 115% or better, all the other tests should be the same.
It’s the standard test for estimating FTP, it’s not something Zwift made up. As I remember it’s Hunter Allen’s test.
If Zwift is basing your efforts on their test then by all means do what they prescribe. At the end of the program, 125% of FTP for 5 min before you do the 20 is not out of the ordinary.