Hi,
I’m due for a set of new race wheels and is deciding between the ZIpp Firecrest 808 (factory built) and ENVE 65 Clincher (from wheelbuilder with DT240). This will be mounted on a Speed Concept.
Can anyone advise on the Aerodynamics quality and durability comparison between these 2 sets of wheels? I know the ENVE is a tad lighter but weight is not a big issue for me. Durability is important though.
Thanks in advance.
Firecrest all the way.
The Zipps are much faster
Hed Jet 90’s are as fast and cheaper(but there will be flack on this comment)
Boyd or Planet-x are even cheaper and in line (there will be even more flack on this one)
Order rims from Hong-Fu and have them built by a reputable wheel builder.
I own and race on all of the above…but there will be too much shit talking if I tell you the real truth in the real world.
Large, expensive purchase. Hopefully you are doing your due diligence/research as if you would purchasing a car.
If you do, the answer will be clear in the end - but pretty muddy in the middle 
Best of luck in your search.
Enve is amazing, but for aerodynamics, they don’t hold a candle to zipp firecrest. Save enve wheels for mtb and cross applications.
one is aero, the other isnt. both seem to be well built.
I love the guys at Enve, but at this point, their stuff just can’t compete on aerodynamics with Zipp. I do know that they are working on it and have some big brains on the task, but working around Zipp patents will be hard.
the toroidal patent expired, hence flocyclings wheels.
I like companies that spend lots of time with CFD and then spend lots of time validating it in the wind-tunnel
.
the hybrid-toroidal and new full-toroidal patents are still in effect - Zipp has locked everyone out of the market by patenting that the widest point in the rim profile is no longer the brake track as it has been with wheels for as long as I can remember. Unless someone has prior art of a rim that has it’s widest point past the brake track, I think that Zipp will be making the fastest wheels around for a little while.
that said, we are working on an alternative to that design that we may be able to prove out over the next couple months, but we have paying gigs that are taking precedence at the moment. But without the ability to create a more-efficient shape than Zipp’s patented shapes, it’s going to be a race for second-best.
*Zipp has locked everyone out of the market by patenting that the widest point in the rim profile is no longer the brake track as it has been with wheels for as long as I can remember. *
What’s the patent number?
I own the new Zipp Firecrest 404 clinchers and the latest ENVE 65’s. I’ve ridden the Zipp’s a half dozen times now. Without a doubt, they feel good and are plenty fast on the flats. I can feel the rim weight, although not significant, specifically when the road goes up. I did a local training ride today, which is a mile loop, half of which goes up from 1% to 6%. I rode the Zipps for the first half then switched to the ENVE’s about half way through the ride. I had an easier time staying with the group on the ENVE’s. I normally only last about a 1 1/2 laps, even with my Bontrager XXX’s. I lasted 2 1/2 laps with the ENVE’s. Although I might have been warmed up for the second half. I know, a very unscientific comparison. I plan to reverse the process and have the results speak for themselves. Might have been my imagination (which I’m sure many of you will claim) but the ENVE’s felt snappier, accelerate quicker, felt livelier, stiffer out of the saddle. The Zipp hubs had a little play out of the box. I had to tightened them up several times before getting the play out of them. I’m a190 lb sprinter dude so my forte is Crits and TT’s. No Tri’s. I don’t do road races since I can’t go uphill to save my life. For this class of wheel, I think it’s very important to consider what kind of riding you do, your weight and expertise of the rider.
Welcome to ST. Enjoyed your first post. Now brace yourself…
starts microwave popcorn
The 40gram difference is on the PAIR of wheels so 20g/wheel which I can guarantee you is imperceptable. Did both wheels have the same tires + tubes?
Both of these wheel sets are excellent. The Zipp should get a small aero advantage over the ENVE straight V but I’ve not seen the comparison data. The ENVE rims are very well made, molded nipple holes etc. Several friends of mine have Edge wheels including my son raced who 2 seasons on the tubular 65’s and he’s a sprinter to boot. No issues.
Welcome to ST. Enjoyed your first post. Now brace yourself…
starts microwave popcorn
Do you mind throwing another bag in there for me… I’m already comfortable with my feet up…
Yes, 40 g is a small. I used the quoted weight from each of the respective websites so actuals may be different. I agree with your statement that there should be a “small” aero advantage of the Zipps. Zipp claims a 16 sec aero advantage over a 40K timetrial, although the link is no longer on their website. ? The 16 sec is over a standard box rim (or was it over the previous generation 404’s?). The question of the day is, “what difference between the Zipps and ENVE?” Since both are aero rims, the difference would fall into the category of “splitting hairs”. Note that I’m comparing 404’s at 58mm to ENVE’s 65mm (7mm), which is more of an apples to apples comparison than the 65’s to the 808’s at 81mm (16mm), or the 404’s to the ENVE 45’s for that matter (13mm). However you slice it, I’m in wheel heaven with having the 404cc and 65’s in my stable. 
*Zipp has locked everyone out of the market by patenting that the widest point in the rim profile is no longer the brake track as it has been with wheels for as long as I can remember. *
What’s the patent number?
i thought i read somewhere that the hed/zipp patent expires in 2012. can’t find the source, though - ergo, i could very easily be wrong.
and i don’t know the patent number.
perhaps rappstar could shed some light on the matter?
*Zipp has locked everyone out of the market by patenting that the widest point in the rim profile is no longer the brake track as it has been with wheels for as long as I can remember. *
What’s the patent number?
i thought i read somewhere that the hed/zipp patent expires in 2012. can’t find the source, though - ergo, i could very easily be wrong.
and i don’t know the patent number.
perhaps rappstar could shed some light on the matter?
I’m sure that Rapp has the patent number…
Go with the ENVE/EDGE wheelset.
My two cents: I own the new Zipp Firecrest 404 clinchers and the latest ENVE 65’s. I’ve ridden the Zipp’s a half dozen times now. Without a doubt, they feel good and are plenty fast on the flats. I can feel the rim weight though, especially when the road goes up. I did a local training ride today, which is a mile loop, half of which goes up from 1% to 6%. I rode the Zipps for the first half then switched to the ENVE’s. Suspense…I had an easier time staying with the group on the ENVE’s. So which do I prefer for that particular training ride? I know the eight hundred pound gorilla “Zipp” won’t want to hear this…but…I liked the ENVE’s better. Why you ask? The ENVE’s felt snappier. Meaning, they accelerate quicker, felt livelier, stiffer out of the saddle. What’s interesting is that my 404’s are 1,510 grams and the ENVE’s are 1,540. The ENVE rims are 40 grams lighter. Note that rotating weight is more important than static weight (hubs). I think part of the difference is due to the superior hubs on the ENVE’s (DT Swiss 240). I am amazed that the Zipps have a little play. I tightened them up but keep coming loose. The downside of this is that I lost the tiny advantage of having both sides of the front hub in the aero position. Very strange. There was a small difference in cross wind stability. Granted I’m 190 lb sprinter type. My forte is Crits and TT’s. No Tri’s. I suffer greatly on road races. The shop I purchased the Zipp’s suggested replacing the hubs with DT 190’s or similar quality hub. I will do this as soon as I recover from the Zipp cash outlay. I would imagine the 808’s would be a little faster on the flats and more difficult going up. For this class of wheel, I think it’s very important to consider what kind of riding they do in addition to the weight and expertise of the rider. Since I don’t do Tri’s perhaps the requirements are different.
And let me guess you don’t ride with power… so you have absolutely zero idea whether it was easier to ride with the group because they were riding easier or because of the wheels or because you have magical powers that can differentiate between 40 grams…