I own a set of 2008 Zedtech 4’s and a set of 2009 808’s. I like them both and while I was a bit put off when they went to a different hub and changed the spoke count on the 404’s in 2009 I could chalk that up to Zipp upgrading the product.
My problem is now after hearing for years from Zipp that all carbon wheels were a problem for numerous reasons including but not limited to braking and rim strength issues they have now come out with an all carbon wheel. I bought the Zipp’s in part because I bought off on their apparent logic when I could have purchased an all carbon wheel.
Am I the only one who feels that Zipp has mislead us on the viability of an all carbon wheel?
Honestly, in this sport it is impossible to have the latest and greatest unless you are upgrading every 1-2 years. In my limited experience, it seems Zipp is a good company and likely hadn’t figured out the all-carbon clincher at the time they were making the statements you refer to.
I wouldn’t feel like I was mislead - it’s just the natural progression of technology IMO.
Honestly, in this sport it is impossible to have the latest and greatest unless you are upgrading every 1-2 years. In my limited experience, it seems Zipp is a good company and likely hadn’t figured out the all-carbon clincher at the time they were making the statements you refer to.
I wouldn’t feel like I was mislead - it’s just the natural progression of technology IMO.
Sell your wheels, and pay a little bit to upgrade to the 2010 wheels. “Problem” solved! Repeat in 2012 when Zipp develops airfoil wheels which lift the bike 2 inches off the road.
I wouldn’t blame you for feeling misled if you had purchased these wheels in the last month or so, because they left up on their website their FAQ’s stating that it is not possible to make a safe carbon clincher. Perhaps that was true when you purhcased your wheelset, but it obviously wasn’t a few weeks before they released theirs. I checked when Jordan posted the video teaser and it was still up there. I’m not sure when they finally removed it. I think it’s a bit misleading to leave up on your website that carbon clinchers aren’t safe until the day you release yours. Just my thoughts.
I wouldn’t blame you for feeling misled if you had purchased these wheels in the last month or so, because they left up on their website their FAQ’s stating that it is not possible to make a safe carbon clincher. Perhaps that was true when you purhcased your wheelset, but it obviously wasn’t a few weeks before they released theirs. I checked when Jordan posted the video teaser and it was still up there. I’m not sure when they finally removed it. I think it’s a bit misleading to leave up on your website that carbon clinchers aren’t safe until the day you release yours. Just my thoughts.
So I guess theirs are the only safe carbon clinchers?
I wouldn’t blame you for feeling misled if you had purchased these wheels in the last month or so, because they left up on their website their FAQ’s stating that it is not possible to make a safe carbon clincher. Perhaps that was true when you purhcased your wheelset, but it obviously wasn’t a few weeks before they released theirs. I checked when Jordan posted the video teaser and it was still up there. I’m not sure when they finally removed it. I think it’s a bit misleading to leave up on your website that carbon clinchers aren’t safe until the day you release yours. Just my thoughts.
So I guess theirs are the only safe carbon clinchers?
I’ve heard a few reports of them catching on fire during downhill braking.
Come on be serious! All company’s say that competitive products are unsafe, suck, useless…ESPECIALLY when they don’t have a similar competing product. Do you expect ZIPP to say, “yeah, those products are the greatest thing since sliced bread but we don’t know how to manufacture them so go purchase from our competitors”?
Probably talking bout clinchers. Although breaking seems to be always better with aluminum rims. Then again how much are you breaking in triathlon? Bottom line, more carbon = lighter. However, it will probably be less stiff than carbon, plus aluminum rims (all other things equal: same company, same carbon, etc.). But it will weigh less. And, with the advances in carbon, it is hard to say that it would be unstiff. I am a Hed guy, never gone with Zipp’s. Have had Hed carbon and Aluminum rims - I like Aluminum better (no breakpad changes, use of clinchers, hate cluing tubulars, etc.) One problem that could exist with a carbon clincher is the shearing of the rim lip of clincher when putting a tire on. Enough pressure and you could partially crack it.
Am I the only one who feels that Zipp has mislead us on the viability of an all carbon wheel?
No. It’s been known for a few years zipp has been working on coming out with an all carbon wheel. Unfortunately or fortunately, they waited until they were sure it wasn’t a run of the mill, me too carbon rim. So basically it took them this long to come out with what they thought was an acceptable product.
Who owes it to you to hold progress up and not produce something just b/c you would have waited.
I played around with the all carbon 404’s. Nice wheels, seem well done. But they are $2700 and really I just don’t see how carbon clinchers are an upgrade over AL. Are you going to stop faster or go faster? probably not.
This is not and has not been such a stress of the mind to look at a carbon clincher and KNOW that it just was not ever a good idea - that however did not stop the market from demanding them. I still have no idea why one would not just get tubulars as they are lighter any damn way.
It’s good that you put your disclaimer in there, or I’d think you missed the pink font.
Faster? How exactly. 100 grams. Only a sales rep intent of selling something could look you in the eye and tell you 100 grams makes any difference.
Lateral stiffness and impact resistence? Are you serious? Using those as a marketing tool for better performance is like saying your crankarms are stiffer than someone else’s. They might be on a machine but no human riding would notice the difference.
I own a set of 2008 Zedtech 4’s and a set of 2009 808’s. I like them both and while I was a bit put off when they went to a different hub and changed the spoke count on the 404’s in 2009 I could chalk that up to Zipp upgrading the product.
My problem is now after hearing for years from Zipp that all carbon wheels were a problem for numerous reasons including but not limited to braking and rim strength issues they have now come out with an all carbon wheel. I bought the Zipp’s in part because I bought off on their apparent logic when I could have purchased an all carbon wheel.
Am I the only one who feels that Zipp has mislead us on the viability of an all carbon wheel?
The only reason these wheels were able to be made was because of a VERY recent partnership between Zipp and a company who develops resins primarily used in F1 carbon rotors (yes, the brake rotors in F1 are carbon fiber). The extremely high curing temperature of these resins is what allowed these wheels to be made safely.
There was a time when heart transplants were impossible. If a doctor - at that time - had told you that, he would not have been misleading you. He was simply telling you the state of the art at the time. Same with these wheels. The technology that allowed Zipp to make full carbon clinchers that met their safety standards didn’t exist.
The Firecrest 404 is the ONLY full carbon clincher to pass the CEN braking test without a weight limit. Both the Corima and the Campagnolo wheels - the only two other wheels (AFAIK) to have passed the CEN braking test - passed with restrictions on rider weight (among a few other restrictions - brake pads and other things). There are a ton of other carbon clinchers you can buy. But they didn’t - and don’t - meet the standards that Zipp sets for their wheels.
It’s good that you put your disclaimer in there, or I’d think you missed the pink font.
Faster? How exactly. 100 grams. Only a sales rep intent of selling something could look you in the eye and tell you 100 grams makes any difference.
Lateral stiffness and impact resistence? Are you serious? Using those as a marketing tool for better performance is like saying your crankarms are stiffer than someone else’s. They might be on a machine but no human riding would notice the difference.
Chad
How are they faster…sorry for not being more clear, but when talking about aero wheels, by faster I mean that they test as more aero in the wind tunnel. Will being lighter also make them faster…in some situations yes.
Lateral stiffness and impact resistance matter a lot to me, not as a sales rep, but as a rider. I am a big guy, 6’4" and 210 lbs. I bounce the current 404s off the brake pads when climbing. With the new carbon clincher, I don’t. As far as impact resistance goes, I can’t see how for any wheel this wouldn’t be a positive. I have broken carbon wheels and aluminum ones, road and mountain. Impact resistance is an area where more is clearly better. The new 404cc can withstand an impact that would cave in the aluminum brake track on the aluminum clincher. That’s pretty cool if you ask me.
Hmmn, interesting. Probably because more material is needed. I think the construction of wheels would be a little different. I think you are comparing apples to oranges. I mean some of those aerobars (carbon) aren’t the stiffest. Hence they need more material so you don’t bend them.
Zipp had some valid concern for performance of CC up to this point. Braking heat buildup is real, and there are demonstrated field failures of overheated rims. That being said, I have a set of Reynolds with 9K miles including a lot of East Coast climbing and descending. I am light, but never had a problem. Some others have. If I was going to bomb an Italian corkscrew descent, I may think twice about using them. We will see if Zipp’s offering shows demonstrated field benefit over time.
That being said. I still do hold a grudge over CK for their integrated headset scare campaign. I had a more than a little reservation about buying an IS headset frame when they first came out. Even after years of field acceptance, CK still pulled a Vatican and claimed that it would be the end of us all. Now they more or less make them too.
Only time will tell if Zipp’s CC story picks up the same stench. If their rims go for years with no breaking failures, where others occasionally give, then they will be cleared in my eyes. To make a statement either for or against their previous marketing would be premature for at least a few more years.