What are the advantages and disadvantages of the Zipp frames? What are the diffrences between the models? Why did Zipp stop making them? Is the boom a suspension boom by design? Why would you buy/not buy one?
Please go into detail and write a book about it.
I have one so I’ll try to answer. As far as advantages, I’ll say that I bought one because I always wanted one. Is it more aero? I think so but I’ve never seen any tunnel numbers and everything points to frame being a minor advantage. I do like the way it rides and it feels plenty stiff in spite of its reputation. It is fairly heavy if that matters to you. I’m around 195lbs (6’3")so frame weight aint a big deal. Parts may be an issue in the future but for now there are still parts available from the man who made them for Zipp (see Zipp’s site for info) but if it breaks you’re pretty SOL.
Why did Zipp stop making them? I think because of the UCI changes but I could be wrong.
The beam is solid, it sits on a small elastamer system. I keep mine locked down and it feels solid.
The 2001 and 3002 are the same except for stickers.
Alright, my son is getting impatient so thats it.
Kevin
I second everything he just said. They are the same frame, except decals. I’ve had 4 Zipp 2001’s and I currently have 2. They are by far the best TT bike you can buy. They were tunnel tested to be the second fastest bike ever made. Only the Lotus tested faster.
The beam sits on elastomers and can be adjusted with a bolt through the top of the beam. I have mine tight so it does not bounce at all. Yet the elastomers provide shock absorbsion. I ride tires pumped to 160psi and its still very comfortable.
They were stopped being made due to the UCI rules changed that basically banned all bikes except diamond design frames.
I’d buy a third if I needed one. I have 2 now, one for racing and one for training. I do all my own work and have built 4 Zipp 2001’s from the frame up. I rebuild them at least once every year.
Killed by the same people that killed the electric car. It is a conspiracy!
Does this mean joshatzipp is involved in destroying the electric car?
Quite possibly, he was last seen around a grassy knoll.
Well I can confirm that I definitely had nothing to do with the demise of the electric car (though I did spend a bit of time in the autoracing industry…)…I think that consumer interest was the culprit there, though my wife does drive a prius and I have owned VW diesels, hatchbacks and wagons forever…can’t wait for Diesel/electric hybrids, 60mpg and lots of usable torque, bring em on!
As for the 2001/3001, the 3001 had a few distinctions. It had a lighter laminate layup that used a giant strip of boron running from head tube to BB. The few naked 3001 frames that were made showed this off nicely. The two strips of boron alone on the 3001 added about $100 to the cost of the thing and was the first use of boron in a consumer product which was a big deal at the time. The 3001 was really the last hurrah for the bike and only 250 were made, each owner received a laser engraved plaque with the serial number of the bike.
The bike was killed because of the UCI rule changes which at the time really had everybody totally freaked out. Really the timing was bad, the bike was due for a redesign and we needed new tooling, so to be looking at some serious 6 figure tooling costs (the tooling and bikes were both made in USA and were full monocoque, so each size needs a specific and very large/expensive tool) and have the UCI tell you that half of your market is no longer available really made doing a new bike out of the question.
The 2001/3001 was actually faster than the Lotus that was productionized, and we know because we were initially approached to produce the Lotus and I still have one hanging around the shop. The test showing the lotus to be faster was using the Boardman lotus which had a rear monostay and a single fork leg, but the last time we did bike specific testing was in 1997 we took a production lotus (which we decided not to produce and was later produced in south africa) and found it to be similar to but not quite as fast as the 3001.
The beam is a suspension design that levers over an adjustable elastomer which could be changed out and varied in preload. Sadly, with these bikes being out of production for 10 years there are few spare parts left, so buyer beware when looking at a used one. The biggest issue with the bike is the cabling, which runs into the frame directly behind teh headtube, this was the first frame to do this and we have been hammered on for years for putting the cables in a place where sweat could intrude and corrode the thing, but this is the most aero location and looking around even today many of the top aero bikes are still using this cable location…but the downside is that you need to change your cables with some frequency as sweat can corrode the cables into the frame in such a way that the frame has to be cut open to replace everything. We have tried everythign from super corrosion resistant lubes to teflon coated cables, but the best recipe is to just replace cables once or twice per year. One of our former frame builders now has his own composites shop and still does repair on the frames and owns all existing spare parts so most any frame can be repaired, but it can be expensive.
Hope that helps
josh
everything points to frame being a minor advantage.
On the contrary: all of the available data point to the advantage of using an aero frame as being as, if not more, important than using aero wheels.
One of my buds here in the SF East Bay rides one of your bikes and loves it. But “productionized”?? You’ve been reading Slowman’s posts, haven’t you? But then you have the advantage of having been “verbed” or should I say gerunded since birth. In case you missed Dan “verbing” himself:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?post=1147686#1147686
BTW, love your podcasts, keep 'em coming. Great stuff to listen too while running.
The 2001/3001 was actually faster than the Lotus that was productionized, and we know because we were initially approached to produce the Lotus and I still have one hanging around the shop. The test showing the lotus to be faster was using the Boardman lotus which had a rear monostay and a single fork leg, but the last time we did bike specific testing was in 1997 we took a production lotus (which we decided not to produce and was later produced in south africa) and found it to be similar to but not quite as fast as the 3001.
Jim Martin got kicked off of Project 96 after crossing swords one too many times with Chet Kyle and Ed Burke. The final straw? Suggesting that instead of spending much time and trouble reinventing the wheel, that the US should just buy some Zipp frames and rebadge them as GTs.
Anyway, enough trivia: any chance of Zipp getting back into the frame business?
Cool. Thanks for the history. It is always interesting to see things from an inside perspective. I actually knew someone at university that did his PhD on boron chemistry. I should mention though that I have a pair of Swix ski poles from 1985 or 1986 that are a boron composite pole and I occasionally still take them out. The ZIPP bikes that I saw in the early ninties were and are still pretty close to being the coolest bike engineering I have ever seen.
Killed by the same people that killed the electric car. It is a conspiracy!
Two words: Cheverolet Volt.
Josh,
Thanks for the history. I love knowing more about the Zipp frames, since I personally think they are the best frames ever made.
“Jim Martin got kicked off of Project 96 after crossing swords one too many times with Chet Kyle and Ed Burke. The final straw? Suggesting that instead of spending much time and trouble reinventing the wheel, that the US should just buy some Zipp frames and rebadge them as GTs.”
Now THATS funny !!!
Thats really interesting Josh.
What a great shame. One of the last great looking bikes in my opinion. Seeing Pauls collection here occasionally makes me go green with envy. We now have a hundred derivatives of a double diamond design that is not optimum for a bicycle machine required for performance. Thanks very much the UCI but then, don’t get me started on that one…
I owned 2 Zipps…GREAT frame…hated the rear brake on the 2001…
If Zipp did build another bike…could you imagine what it would cost??
Do Zero G brakes work on the the Zipp frames or do I have to use the questionable Zipp brakes?
There’s really nothing questionable with the Zipp brakes. They are a pain in the ass to adjust until you’ve done it as many times as I have, then its easy.
The rear brake can be any centerpull. I’ve seen DA AX, Modolo Cronos, Campy Deltas and I’ve used a very light MRC. All centerpulls. Most if not all side pulls will get in the way of the chainrings and cranks on the drive side, though I’ve never needed to try one.
If you need a centerpull let me know. I have a VeRY light MRC. It weighs in at about 75grams. It works on the Zipp just fine.
A friend of mine over here in Taiwan who owns a bikeshop has a never-been-built Zipp 3001 hanging up in his shop. I guess it would be considered some-what of a collector’s item now.
Shane D
Yeah, problem is that it is a 650 large/large—not exactly a popular option.