Z2 bike training (and bike fitness in general)

I’m now just a cyclist, but though I’d throw this question out there.

I’ve been a cyclist for 10 years now. Never super high volume but usually 80 - 100 mile weeks. Consistent riding throughout the year but more in summer.

I usually do 4 days on the bike (2 Zwifts, 2 outdoors). I walk to work (abt. 75 minutes round trip) 4 days a week. On the days I don’t ride I try to get 15K steps a day.

By saying all this I mean that I am not a sedentary person.

However, I cannot for the life of me seem to keep a low heart rate while exercising. I’m gearing up for a 6 day bike trip in Italy in September so I’m trying to do one longish Z2 ride a week in order to build endurance. You would think I would have decent fitness to do a reasonable pace but I don’t. In order to keep my HR under 146, which Garmin/Strava calculates as Z2 for me, I’m moving so slow it’s practically glacial. Any sort of hill puts me in the mid 160s.

My resting heart rate according to Garmin is 56/57.

Do I just accept the glacial pace and keep at it, or what’s going on with me? How should I train for my trip? This is the second weeklong trip I’ve done but this one is more miles per day and hillier so I need to be in better shape.

54 y.o. female. Asthmatic (controlled generally) and no other physical problems.

A few things from a roadie (mid-50s, male, ~300 km/week usually as 5 rides with 4 of them around 120 minutes and 1 of them at 180-240 minutes, 11-12 hours of ride time):

(0) There is nothing wrong at all with the numbers you give, however you are focusing on short rides (I’m taking the liberty of averaging 100 miles/4 rides here, which might not be correct) and need to get your longer rides north of 3 hours and preferably closer to 4;

(1) It appears you are letting Garmin determine your HR zones. You might benefit from a coaching session to get those dialed-in more. Many coaches offer packages for exactly what you (likely) need, namely a small number of sessions targeting the goal you are setting out to achieve (be it a race, a trip, and so on) - this is money well-spent;

(2) You don’t mention power, and that is a useful thing to have because Z2(HR) is pretty different than Z2(P): do you have a power meter, and if not, I suggest you look into it especially given the investment you’ve made for the cycling trip;

(3) What’s your cadence like? Do you do cadence drills? You can “pedal with your heart” at a higher cadence and “pedal with your legs” at a lower one;

(4) Walking is great, but you’re going on a cycling trip in Italy, so spend more time in the saddle and while you shouldn’t discount walking it’s not a substitute for riding;

(5) Are your Zwift rides structured? They should be to optimize since logging long hours on Zwift is neither representative of road riding (fewer degrees of freedom and other things) nor is it overly useful unless you are using it for structured parts of your plans (in my opinion and experience, and I use Zwift a lot and have benefited greatly from it as a training tool and for racing-to-fitness); and

(6) You don’t provide info (and that’s okay) about your hydration levels and the temperature/humidity where you are. Both affect your physiological state and you should incorporate consideration into your training. Again, a coach who is aligned with getting you into shape for the terrain, altitude, temperatures, and mileage by September is a very good investment, as is a power meter if you don’t have one.

Thanks for being the (sole) reply!

A few things from a roadie (mid-50s, male, ~300 km/week usually as 5 rides with 4 of them around 120 minutes and 1 of them at 180-240 minutes, 11-12 hours of ride time):

(0) There is nothing wrong at all with the numbers you give, however you are focusing on short rides (I’m taking the liberty of averaging 100 miles/4 rides here, which might not be correct) and need to get your longer rides north of 3 hours and preferably closer to 4;

You are right, most of my rides are short. Weekdays I can manage 1 - 1.5 hours per ride at best on Zwift (comfort and time constraints, one reason why I no longer tri). I am building up my endurance (“Z2”) Saturday ride and am close to 2.5 hours, which was 34 miles (I said my pace was glacial) and plan to continue increasing this throughout the summer. My Sunday ride is a social one that’s usually a little short but I can add miles before the ride to a degree.

(1) It appears you are letting Garmin determine your HR zones. You might benefit from a coaching session to get those dialed-in more. Many coaches offer packages for exactly what you (likely) need, namely a small number of sessions targeting the goal you are setting out to achieve (be it a race, a trip, and so on) - this is money well-spent;

Good point. If anyone knows of a coach who offers such a service I’m all ears. I’m in the SF East Bay.

(2) You don’t mention power, and that is a useful thing to have because Z2(HR) is pretty different than Z2(P): do you have a power meter, and if not, I suggest you look into it especially given the investment you’ve made for the cycling trip;

Unfortunately no power meter. I have done the ramp tests in Zwift to determine my FTP on there; no idea how accurate that is.

(3) What’s your cadence like? Do you do cadence drills? You can “pedal with your heart” at a higher cadence and “pedal with your legs” at a lower one;

I’m most comfortable around an 80/85 rpm cadence. I do cadence drills in Zwift; not as much outdoors.

(4) Walking is great, but you’re going on a cycling trip in Italy, so spend more time in the saddle and while you shouldn’t discount walking it’s not a substitute for riding;

Agreed. I figured it counted for something as far as HR cardio conditioning though.

(5) Are your Zwift rides structured? They should be to optimize since logging long hours on Zwift is neither representative of road riding (fewer degrees of freedom and other things) nor is it overly useful unless you are using it for structured parts of your plans (in my opinion and experience, and I use Zwift a lot and have benefited greatly from it as a training tool and for racing-to-fitness); and

I pick workouts to do for the most part. I went though the Spring Training series, for example, and have been picking out the workouts geared to endurance/grand fondo rides there.

(6) You don’t provide info (and that’s okay) about your hydration levels and the temperature/humidity where you are. Both affect your physiological state and you should incorporate consideration into your training. Again, a coach who is aligned with getting you into shape for the terrain, altitude, temperatures, and mileage by September is a very good investment, as is a power meter if you don’t have one.

Living in the Bay Area means pretty kind climate for cycling. Coolish (so far) and not humid.

Thanks for the advice. Would I be better off adding another day of easy riding or going harder on one of my current 4 days?

Walk less and ride more and you will enjoy your bike tour much more.

I usually do 4 days on the bike (2 Zwifts, 2 outdoors). I walk to work (abt. 75 minutes round trip) 4 days a week. On the days I don’t ride I try to get 15K steps a day.

However, I cannot for the life of me seem to keep a low heart rate while exercising. I’m gearing up for a 6 day bike trip in Italy in September so I’m trying to do one longish Z2 ride a week in order to build endurance. …

My resting heart rate according to Garmin is 56/57.

Do I just accept the glacial pace and keep at it, or what’s going on with me? How should I train for my trip? This is the second weeklong trip I’ve done but this one is more miles per day and hillier so I need to be in better shape.

54 y.o. female. Asthmatic (controlled generally) and no other physical problems.

Zones are just man made constructs to help ID what sort of effort you are doing. They were originally designed to be descriptive but are used to be prescriptive. IDK if that’s a good thing or not, something I struggle with, still, after using power for coaching for ~ 20 years.

HR can be influenced by many factors - heat, humidity, dehydration, sleep or a lack of, stress, hormones etc.

There are only a few ways to really get better.

  1. Ride longer - more overall duration, longer duration long rides, longer duration for your other rides. None of these are exclusive of each other. You can ride 1 normal ride per week for a longer duration AND add in more duration for your long ride.
    2.Ride harder for longer. At some point you’ve got to ride hard and then extend out the duration you’re riding hard for.

All the training zones just try to describe these two things and make it easier for people to understand what they are doing and what is going on. For example sweet spot is just a sub threshold zone. tempo is somewhere sub sub threshold and just above endurance(zn2).

Figure out where you need to improve then go there.

Hope that helps

I’m most comfortable around an 80/85 rpm cadence. I do cadence drills in Zwift; not as much outdoors.

You will find a lot of opinions on this one, however being able to spin in a lower gear in the 90-95 rpm range will pay dividends on inclines. That said, if your comfort range is 80-85 rpm that’s not a red flag. Just beware that you will be recruiting more muscles at lower cadence and being able to modulate cadence will help you balance use muscle vs. cardio optimally. Given a constant resistance (force), lower cadence recruits more muscle and thus lower HR will be observed; at that same resistance at higher cadence, HR will increase and those muscles (mostly glutes and supporting) will get some relief.

Living in the Bay Area means pretty kind climate for cycling. Coolish (so far) and not humid.

I suspect you have a detailed route including topography, have an idea what the weather will be like, and can likely get % grade from numerous sources. Make sure you are geared properly. No shortage of great routes in the Bay Area for sure.

Would I be better off adding another day of easy riding or going harder on one of my current 4 days?

Easier and longer is the way to go. You are looking to maximize time on the saddle and minimize aches/recovery and enjoy the scenery and presumably the wine and food. Having a wide range of gears and having your body get used to at least one weekly ride > 3 hours and up to 4 hours will put you in a position to ride easily 6 or more hours per day, assuming you are breaking for lunch and at other times.

It’s also not very common on group rides (except for those primes that us local yokels go for) to be ready to sprint and lay-on the wattage, so in my opinion time is best spent on building your low intensity/longer time rides.

I usually do 4 days on the bike (2 Zwifts, 2 outdoors). I walk to work (abt. 75 minutes round trip) 4 days a week. On the days I don’t ride I try to get 15K steps a day.

However, I cannot for the life of me seem to keep a low heart rate while exercising. I’m gearing up for a 6 day bike trip in Italy in September so I’m trying to do one longish Z2 ride a week in order to build endurance. …

My resting heart rate according to Garmin is 56/57.

Do I just accept the glacial pace and keep at it, or what’s going on with me? How should I train for my trip? This is the second weeklong trip I’ve done but this one is more miles per day and hillier so I need to be in better shape.

54 y.o. female. Asthmatic (controlled generally) and no other physical problems.

Zones are just man made constructs to help ID what sort of effort you are doing. They were originally designed to be descriptive but are used to be prescriptive. IDK if that’s a good thing or not, something I struggle with, still, after using power for coaching for ~ 20 years.

HR can be influenced by many factors - heat, humidity, dehydration, sleep or a lack of, stress, hormones etc.

There are only a few ways to really get better.

  1. Ride longer - more overall duration, longer duration long rides, longer duration for your other rides. None of these are exclusive of each other. You can ride 1 normal ride per week for a longer duration AND add in more duration for your long ride.
    2.Ride harder for longer. At some point you’ve got to ride hard and then extend out the duration you’re riding hard for.

All the training zones just try to describe these two things and make it easier for people to understand what they are doing and what is going on. For example sweet spot is just a sub threshold zone. tempo is somewhere sub sub threshold and just above endurance(zn2).

Figure out where you need to improve then go there.

Hope that helps

You should write a book and only put this post in it. Lol. Great way to simplify it and it’s so true.

One more thing: get a professional bike fit, sooner rather than later.

It never ceases to amaze me how so many people drop thousands of dollars on wheel sets, the latest Garmin/Polar/whatever, carbon this and that every year and balk at a layout of maybe $250 every 3 years. And they ride like absolute clowns. Don’t be one of them.

One more thing: get a professional bike fit, sooner rather than later.

It never ceases to amaze me how so many people drop thousands of dollars on wheel sets, the latest Garmin/Polar/whatever, carbon this and that every year and balk at a layout of maybe $250 every 3 years. And they ride like absolute clowns. Don’t be one of them.

Well at least I did that right - got a pro fit when I got the bike 11 years ago. Or are you saying I should get a fit checkup? It feels good to me - no aches or pains.

If you’re feeling good and your general range of flexibility has remained the same, it’s your call.

If you are taking on a significant amount of mileage on your trip relative to what you’re used to, it probably wouldn’t hurt. You are alluding to longer rides and that’s usually where issues with stem length, saddle setback, cleat positioning, and the like can add up. I’m also not aware how much (if any) extra gear you’re carrying (is this a supported ride), which can add extra strain.

Disclaimer: I’m the guy who changes his chain on the bike at a hair over 0.5, regularly has the oil and filters changed on the car, and am of the general mind that I’d rather pay a bit more frequently than a lot less frequently. In short, preventative maintenance and trying to keep the big and expensive surprises to a minimum if I can. YMMV.

Zones are just man made constructs to help ID what sort of effort you are doing. They were originally designed to be descriptive but are used to be prescriptive. IDK if that’s a good thing or not, something I struggle with, still, after using power for coaching for ~ 20 years.

HR can be influenced by many factors - heat, humidity, dehydration, sleep or a lack of, stress, hormones etc.

There are only a few ways to really get better.

  1. Ride longer - more overall duration, longer duration long rides, longer duration for your other rides. None of these are exclusive of each other. You can ride 1 normal ride per week for a longer duration AND add in more duration for your long ride.
    2.Ride harder for longer. At some point you’ve got to ride hard and then extend out the duration you’re riding hard for.

All the training zones just try to describe these two things and make it easier for people to understand what they are doing and what is going on. For example sweet spot is just a sub threshold zone. tempo is somewhere sub sub threshold and just above endurance(zn2).

Figure out where you need to improve then go there.

Hope that helps

You should write a book and only put this post in it. Lol. Great way to simplify it and it’s so true.

Thanks. A long time ago Barry P and I were approached to write a book. I was working FT in pharma, coaching about 10 people and training 15-20h/wk. He was running a lot, working FT as an engineer and we just never really managed to get much written. Think after about 2mo we both had about 50 pages written.

When I read coaching, training and science(y) books, I often think :geez this author took 25 pages to say what could have fit on 4, they must really like typing." If I did write a book it would probably be < 100 pages and more comprehensive than just about anything out there that I’ve read.

For Accelerate 3’s new athlete packet I did write a short physiology & training primer that I’m pretty proud of - 4 or 5 pages long. I borrowed that man made construct right from it!