XC Skate Ski waxing

Triathlon Forum
1

I’ve got brand new skate skis and I’m looking for some advice on waxing.

I paid for the ‘hot box’ treatment for a base coat, but haven’t done anything beyond that. I was looking for a quick and easy ski experience so I think I’m going to do the paste wax every time out.

However, I was told to put a layer of ‘blue’ (hard) wax on. So it seems I’ll be scraping the hot box wax, and applying blue over it. How many layers would you recommend? Would I be applying blue, scraping, and reapplying more than one time? Or am I just scraping the hot box wax, applying blue once, scraping, and paste waxing (per use).

Thanks!

2

It sounds like you have hot wax equipment. Over the long haul I’m guessing you’ll go that route pretty much exclusively.

To the original question, scrape whatever’s on your skis. Apply something like Rex Blue, let it cool, then scrape. Repeat. Repeat again if you want. Go ski.

A quick google/youtube search should answer any technique questions you have better than we can here. If you get stumped, I’m sure someone here can help.

Good luck.

3

It really depends on snow temperature and humidity which glide wax to use - But DO NOT use a kick wax - even if a cold one on your skate skis. :slight_smile: bad ju ju.

if you have had a hot was and it has been scraped and brushed you should be ready to go - look for a black shiny surface for the whole ski - waxing can be very technical and many take hours in ski prep - but for me - I melt it on - scrape it off- polish it and ski.

Hope this helps and off soon for a couple of hours on the local golf course.

Have fun.

4

“Apply something like Rex Blue, let it cool, then scrape. Repeat. Repeat again if you want.”
So putting on Blue, scraping and putting on more Blue is preferrable? Better performance? Longer lasting? I’m lazy, so I’m always looking to cut corners. If one coat can do it, I’ll only put on one coat.

“Go ski.”
If only it were as easy as pumping up bike tires.

Thanks

5

Like was said, waxing can be a very technical, time consuming process: A Very temperature, humidity, snow condition process.

In its simplist form though, can be very easy, and you can usually get it ‘pretty close’ without alot of effort - really depends on where you are.

In the Rockies because it is generally so cold and dry, it is pretty easy.

I don’t have the links handy, but a couple resources are the Swix website, and I think Boulder Nordic Sport has their manual on line.

DB

6

First thing, get the proper equipment. Get a waxing iron, a couple of plastic scrapers and a copper brush and a nylon brush. You can add other brushes later.
First wax after the hot box treatment should be a couple of layers of red low flouro glide wax. Let the skis sit for 24 hours after hot waxing then scrap, brush and re-wax.
Apply a low to medium fluoro wax for the conditions for training and only use high fluoro waxes for speed work and races. The key to fast skis is lots of brushing!
I like Holmenkol waxes but Swix, Toko and the rest are also good. Just get to know your fav system.

7

The primary decisions to make are:

  1. how much time do I have to wax (or want to spend waxing)?

  2. how important is maximizing glide?

  3. How much money are you willing to spend?

  4. What’s the temperature outside?
    2a) Is the snow clean or dirty?
    2b) is the snow dry or wet?
    (can’t easily make a snowball = dry; good snowball = wetter; snowball that drips water = Seattle :slight_smile: )

If you are looking to minimize time and money spent waxing (i.e., #1=“little”, #2=“not so much”, and #3=“not much”), then these are the kinds of wax products to consider:

http://www.toko.ch/…_ch/Express+Wax.html
(these are from a company named Toko. Swix also has a line of XC wax products as well that are similar).

These products will neither glide as well nor last as long as those that take more time / money, but that’s the trade-off here.

If you’ve got more time / money and want more glide, then look here as an example:

http://www.toko.ch/...swax_ch/Hot+Wax.html

For this set of waxes, the selection of which glide wax to use is primarily based on temperature and secondarily on the answers to questions 2a and 2b. Blue waxes are harder and for colder temperatures, red / pink are mid-range (upper teens - mod 20s) and yellow are around 32 F +/- a few degrees.

If your snow is all of very cold, very dry, and very clean and you’re not racing, then straight hydrocarbon waxes are fine - examples are the Toko S3 yellow, pink and blue waxes. As snow gets warmer (and so may have more free moisture), and / or dirtier, and you get more competitive you’ll want more of a ‘race wax’. This usually means higher and higher concentrations of fluorocarbon additives. The higher the concentration, the more it costs, the better it glides, and the more it resists contamination by dirty snow - examples are the Toko LF (low fluoro) and HF waxes, and pure fluoros like Toko’s JetStream and Helx, and Swix’s Cera F line. Be warned that the last set of products are each > $100 / ounce. For warmer but still quite dry snow, the Toko LF Dibloc Grey adds in a good dry lubricant like molybdenum.

For more information, see Nat Brown’s book:
http://www.amazon.com/...292013748&sr=8-6

Chris

8

Something I don’t think has been mentioned is that “layers” isn’t really a usable concept here. How much wax you apply to the base is irrelevant. How much the base actually absorbs is the question. The base will accept was through the heating process of the base not by how much wax you put on. Think of it as a sponge. When the was is ironed on it opens the base to accept the wax. What you scrape off is residual and of no use but to add drag and slow you down.

The key is getting the wax into the base. Hot boxing is the best way to do this. The long term “opening” of the base in a hot box allows the base to accept more wax.

However, you will want to tune the skis prior to the hot box. The new top of the line skis are pretty good from the factory. But in a perfect world you will still want to get a grind done and have a tune prior to the initial hot box if you want to get the best performance out of the ski.

However, if you are not into that much effort or cost to a ski shop then the hot box is good.

DON’T TAKE XC SKIS TO AN ALPINE SHOP TO GET GROUND. THE GRINDER IS DIFFERENT AND XC SKIS DONT’ HAVE EDGES. THEY WILL GRIND OFF YOUR BASE.

Blue is an good all around training wax depending on where you live. But you will ski it off after about 50k usually. You will start to see white, dry spots on your base. At that point you will need to re wax. For me that is about every third ski day.

The spray on or paste is ok but you will ski that off in only 5-10k easily since it is topical and not being absorbed by the base. So, you will really need to hot wax. It’s not bad it takes maybe 10 min once you get the hang of it.

Also, when waxing DON’T use too hot of an iron. That will burn the base and thus seal it not allowing for wax to be accepted. The only fix is a grind. A good rule of thumb is a smoking iron is to hot.

The catch is, the more effort you put into waxing the faster your skis and the more fun going fast out on the trails will be.

Jimmy

9

Here’s my 2 cents- how hard core are you of a skier?

If you are pretty serious and want to race etc - then go for the real waxing.

If you want to wax in less than a minute and still go relatively fast get some F4 rub on liquid wax. I love this stuff. My run training buddies are all elite skiers and make fun of me for doing this but I still keep up with them in training. I don’t do many races but the ones I have done it’s worked fine.

For me skiing is training for triathlon- I don’t want to spend a ton of time and money on all the extraneous stuff associated with it- we have more than enough of that with triathlon.

Skiing Trapps tomorrow!!!

10

"The catch is, the more effort you put into waxing the faster your skis and the more fun going fast out on the trails will be. "

when you get it perfect you will know and glide forever .

11

Here’s great basic waxing info:

http://www.rideandglide.bizland.com/wax_101.htm
.

12

The spray on or paste is ok but you will ski that off in only 5-10k easily since it is topical and not being absorbed by the base. So, you will really need to hot wax. It’s not bad it takes maybe 10 min once you get the hang of it.

Yes. Durability is a big reason most people end up doing hot wax eventually.

It’s also cheaper. Unless you’re racing cheap wax is totally fine. I’ve been happy with the Fast Wax Sport series that goes for $7-$8 a package around here. The paste is about $20 a package and you’re using several times as much.

With paste wax your glide won’t be as good (you’ll go slower and learning good technique will be harder), plus you need to do it every single time you ski.

You only ever need one layer of wax to ski. Actually, you can ski without any wax, but your bases will fill with dirt and you’ll be really slow. But more layers last longer because more wax gets into the base. As JT Rock notes, you’re not really layering it on, you’re melting it into the base.

Where are you located? Most ski shops do free waxing clinics in the winter and it’s worth more than the price of admission to attend. If you’re anywhere near Minneapolis, Steve Thatcher, the guy who wrote up the Ride and Glide tips linked above, does a workshop in his basement every year.

Last year (or maybe the year before) Slowman was getting tooled up to wax skis again. I wonder how that’s going…?

13

"The catch is, the more effort you put into waxing the faster your skis and the more fun going fast out on the trails will be. "

when you get it perfect you will know and glide forever .

I can’t disagree that the right wax will make a huge difference. My issue is that I’ve got 1 set of skate skis and waxing for conditions every time I get out is a hassle.

I just ran across this Universal Wax at REI (http://www.rei.com/product/808143). You still have to iron it on, but touts itself as universal temperature. Has anyone tried it?

It seems like it may be more durable and would last longer. I realize that it won’t be as fast as the specific wax for the daily conditions most of the time.

Thanks

-- Scott
14

I’d recommend you pick a wax that has a temperature range that is an average for you if you don’t want to wax often. In MN, I use Rex Blue for nearly all of my training. The only time I would wax differently is for a race or conditions that are way outside of its’ range. Most of the guys I ski with are doing the same thing. So, we are moving at a similar speed whether it is good for conditions or not. Rex Blue is pretty forgiving and seems pretty durable as well.

I’ve never used a “Universal” wax. I’m not sure how effective that would be.

15

X2. I used to run Blue most of the season. You could pick up an extra set of skis at one of the local ski swaps that occur later in fall. I’m not aware of any more this year, but it is something that you could put on your list for next year. And pricing at the swaps can be very reasonable.

16

X2. I used to run Blue most of the season. You could pick up an extra set of skis at one of the local ski swaps that occur later in fall. I’m not aware of any more this year, but it is something that you could put on your list for next year. And pricing at the swaps can be very reasonable.

Thanks for the tips. I’ve missed the ski swaps in Madison for this year. If I get serious, I’ll eventually need to add to the quiver.

Prior to spotting the “Universal” wax I’d thought about just sticking to blue as well. I applied some this morning, and if I want to challenge the wind, I’ll give it a try.

-- Scott
17

“Apply something like Rex Blue, let it cool, then scrape. Repeat. Repeat again if you want.”
So putting on Blue, scraping and putting on more Blue is preferrable? Better performance? Longer lasting? I’m lazy, so I’m always looking to cut corners. If one coat can do it, I’ll only put on one coat.

“Go ski.”
If only it were as easy as pumping up bike tires.

Thanks

You can put as many coats as you want, but one is all you need :). In your current situation, you’re probably set since your skis have been hot boxed, unless you care to apply a wax appropriate for your temperature first (which I’d do, but since you claim looking for the easy way… you’re set and your bases are gorged with wax).

What you basically want when waxing is a three step process: 1/ open up the pores in the ski bases so you can soak them with wax (this is done by brushing with a reasonably stiff brush, e.g. nylon/copper); 2/ do said wax soaking (meaning going multiple times over the base of skis, tip to tail, melting and remelting the wax you dripped off); 3/ scrape surface wax off the ski and brush/buff/polish (this is done with a soft brush, e.g. horsehair).

Depending on how “thirsty” your bases are, you may have to do more than one coat.

So as a “lazy” guy, you can:

  • Do a wax regularly often.
  • Do more work less often.

I like doing the wax regularly often and I ski often. I don’t look forward to the mess of scrapped off wax, but I sure like how fast I am on skis!

Something else that I do every time is a hot scrape: take some cheap soft wax (Swix will sell a specific wax for base cleaning, but whatever your preference’s softest wax is great), drip and iron. When the wax cools off on the ski, but before it hardens up, scrape it off. This will lift all the dirt and grime from your bases. Repeat this until the wax you scrape off is clean.

Then wax.

Then ski hard: you deserved it.

18

hot waxing skate skis is NOT childs play, it is an art form that you will need to learn over the course of several seasons. Always err on the side of the harder wax if the conditions are questionable, you can always slap a coat of liquide glide wax on if the snow temp heats up. Go here and read these articles: http://www.sierranordic.com/home/index.php?site_config_id=28&page_selection=727&s_page=

Now go have some really dam good fun !!! I am headed to Tahoe in a week for my first outing of the season, it’s going to be GREAT!!!

Cheers,

Dave

19

Personally I’ve been using the SWIX F4 rub on… I have the warm temp liquid to put on in case of a major chinook… that said I usually ski on man made snow that’s super packed down and much colder than a natural track… I’ve been out 6 times thus far and found this wax works decent for training. I’m hoping to be decent enough to be competative in my first winter triathlon. I raced XC as a kid but quit to swim year round when I was 11. So I haven’t been out more than twice in a year since then but I’m regaining my technique a bit each and every time I head out the door. I figure I can go twice a week between now and April with a few extras here and there. I have to spend a week in Banff 2 weeks before the target race…

20

So I have a question about applying multiple layers. When I was growing up the method for prepping the bases for a race season was to apply many (10-20 coats of base wax) early in the year and then use 3 to 5 layers of race day wax depending on the length of the race. This seems to be the same today as well. When my brother and I used to race in high school the coach would have us hot wax, cool, scrape, brush and repeat for each layer. When my bro went off to a collegiate skiing program his coach had them just hot wax, cool, hot wax, cool, hot wax, cool, hot wax… and so on and so forth for each layer (under the idea that each time the wax was heated it would get more into the base of the ski). Only scraping and brushing when changing wax or getting ready to ski on them. I was wondering if anyone knew which method is better. I just got my racing skis back from getting stone ground and immediately started slapping on the wax. I have been trying the melt, cool, and re-melt technique to apply multiple coats of wax. I just skied on them for the first time this season a couple of days ago and they were wicked fast however, I am a little concerned about the longevity of the wax especially through marathon races. Thanks in advance. Peace and happy skiing!