My wife was in a slow speed crash with a delivery truck (truck driver ran the stop sign / limit line) Her bike (2008 Scott CR-1 Pro) hit the front of the cab enclosure at about 10 MPH. He stopped and she got all his insurance info. She was a bit shaken up but very lucky to not have serious injuries. Yesterday the insurance adjuster, who knew very little about bikes, came over to look at it. While we can’t see any obvious cracks or fissures in the carbon, my wife’s confidence in the bike is a bit rattled. I asked the adjuster if he would ride it and he didn’t give me an answer but I could see he was thinking about it. After a vsiual inspection, none of our local shops (one of them a Scott dealer) would say its 100% safe to ride, but none of them would say it’s not either.
What would you guys do? Keep riding it and have no worries? Replace it regardless of what the insurance company says? Push the insurance company to replace it to re-establish her confidence in the frame beneath her, regardless of the presence of clearly visible damage, retaining legal counsel to help out if necessary?
We are hoping for a replacement frame but our past experience with insurance companies tells us we are in for a bit of a back and forth to reach a resolution.
Anyone have an experience with an insurance company that could provide your insights into the process you went through?
Well if the bike shops (especially the Scott dealer) say it isn’t 100% safe to ride, then it isn’t safe. Will they write that down? What does Scott say? I would surely push for a new frame, at the very least a new fork (I assume it hit there?), regardless of whether or not it is wrecked. And I can’t imagine that the truck driver and his insurance company will be able to do much anyway as it was him running a stop sign.
I agree with having the fork taken off and the stearer inspected. I don’t think it would surprise too many people that no one is willing to say that it is 100% safe to ride. These days no one wants to assume even a hint of liability by making such a statement.
A lot depends on if she can ever have confidence in the bike again. Naturally if she continues to ride it she will be nervous at first. But will she be able to get over that?
It’s all going to come down to a matter of personal preference. The overlay of the carbon weave and the clear coating can occasionally mask sub-surface damages, but in most cases if it’s strong enough to damage a frame element it will reveal itself on the surface. If she’s the daring type, you guys could probably get away with a simple self-inspection. Wrench on the frame a bit and see if any trouble spots pop up. If nothing shows, then she could take it for a very slow spin and test it out. No one can give you a definitive answer on this because there’s no realistic (affordable) way to guarantee the integrity of the entire frame.
After crashing my frame, I gave it a thorough visual inspection and saw no issues. A few months later (once I was back in riding condition) I clipped in and got about a mile from my house when I felt some play in the back end. I got off the bike and checked the rear triangle on both sides. I could faintly see an inch-long crack in one of the seat stays, but only when I put some pressure on it. When I finally got it home, I torqued on the triangle a bit harder and realized that the inch-long crack was actually a 2-3 inch long tital fracture, held in place solely by the outer layer of clear coat. That fall, I sent it out to RR Velo for repair and have been riding it problem-free ever since. I still inspect it regularly.
Totally depends on the type of crash as a general rule, but in this case it looks like you’ve got an at-fault driver with an insurance company backing the claim. I’d have your local bike shop write up a “no confidence” letter and request a replacement. Push the ins company hard for a replacement frame. Damage isn’t always visible to the naked eye, but if you explain the sort of accident that could result from riding a damaged frame that fails down the road - for which they could be held liable, they’ll probably come around. A new frame might cost them a couple grand. A severe accident could cost them a couple hundred grand, easily.
You are no longer talking about “safety” as much as “liability”. And no-one wants to be holding that ball…
Ask the insurance company to pay to send it for proper inspection to Calfee. Once they find out how much that costs, they’ll just replace the frame. Problem solved.
I’ve had good success working directly with the driver directly and leaving the insurance companies out of it.
The driver doesn’t want the claim (insurance goes up for a long time) and can be settled very quickly.
As long as you’re reasonable with him/her to just replace what is damaged it should be a win-win.
Probably, yes. But… as we all know and love nothing is 100% certain when it comes to carbon.
I had a similar crash about a year ago where I hit a car that had turned left in front of me (having slammed on the brakes to get it down to about 10 mph before impact). Bike had a carbon fork with alloy steered. I told the claims adjuster (on the phone) that this was my race bike and I can’t race a bike that I have anything less than 100% confidence in (nor would anyone want to buy a bike that has been in a crash, ever). They cut me a check for full replacement value.
I’d definitely pull the fork and inspect the steer tube, and check and recheck the headtube for any hairline cracks. If the LBS writes a letter that there is no way to be sure it is 100% (and is thus a safety risk for you - or has no resale value), that should be more than enough for the insurance co.
I get nervous when a bicycle shop is asked to “inspect” a frame for defects post-crash. They aren’t really qualified nor often experienced in materials science, composite construction and failure mechanisms. They are a retail outlet for merchandise and offer general mechanical work on components. They may be the avenue to get a replacement frame from a manufacturer of which they are a dealer for but not to determine damage unless the area in question is obviously cracked/split/broken off.
I’ve had good success working directly with the driver directly and leaving the insurance companies out of it.
The driver doesn’t want the claim (insurance goes up for a long time) and can be settled very quickly.
As long as you’re reasonable with him/her to just replace what is damaged it should be a win-win.
Two problems with this:
the average driver’s eyeballs will pop out when they see what a carbon bicycle frame costs
if you skip a police report and avoid “the process” you have no recourse against the driver if they decide they don’t want to make things right afterall
Morning.
Hope your wife is ok. From an insurance perspective…
Just an FYI, I have been an insurance adjustor for 15 years and have never reveived any training on bike damage, specifically carbon damage. Since becoming a rider, I have become the go to person on cycling accidents in our area. You need to educate the adjustor - this is realistically the adjustors first carbon bike accident. I remember my first cycling claim - carbon bike vs side of Ford F350 pick up - needless to say, the truck won. I actually asked the rider if they could repair the broken top tube of his bike. All our training as adjustors was based on repair time vs replace. The rider I interacted with educated me and actually got me into riding. Looking back at the incident, I laugh thinking about asking this poor guy if they could fix his frame. It will be extra work for you, but well worth the time - supply any and all information you can. The previous replys on bike inspection is also a great idea - the cost usually outweighs the rewards for the company. Additionally point out the risk of you wife’s continued riding of a compormised frame. Put your concerns in writing to back up any issues down the line. .
If the adjustor is unwilling to listen to reason, push it up the chain of command. Make this a safety issue, not a repair vs replace isse. Just my 2 cents…
I’ve had good success working directly with the driver directly and leaving the insurance companies out of it.
The driver doesn’t want the claim (insurance goes up for a long time) and can be settled very quickly.
As long as you’re reasonable with him/her to just replace what is damaged it should be a win-win.I see zero advantage in working directly with the driver. Settle with the insurance company and if the driver doesn’t want his premiums to increase he can just pay the settlement amount to the insurance company.
I have flipped /wrecked and fell on my carbon trek 5200 a few times. Still riding it. I would have a bike shop check it over real good. Some bike shops would find a crack just to be able to sell you a new bike. I wouldn’t want that to happen karma and all !