So, there has been so much angst and hand wringing and “embarrasment” about neanderthal replies in the thread about a man speaking at a women’s breakfast in Kona that I wanted to address it in a longer post and in another thread. I cannot fathom why, in this day and age in our sport, why the fact that a man was asked to deliver the keynote address at a breakfast would cause such outrage that some suggest women should not even attend. I can’t fathom that because triathlon, of all sports, has been inclusive and welcoming of women from the very beginning. To imply that men dominate this sport to the point that it is insult to have one speak at a women’s event is to ignore the rich history of women in this sport. In fact, it seems that some are being willfully ignorant of this sport’s history and the women who have helped write that history every bit as much as men.
Women have been a part of Ironman and the lore of triathlon almost from the beginning. Women have never been excluded from any triathlon at any distance; Lyn Lemaire competed in the second Ironman ever held, and women have competed ever since. In 1982, one of the most, if not the most, iconic moments in our sport was shown on TV when Julie Moss famously collapsed just short of the finish. This moment was captured and broadcast for all to see, and is probably the most famous of all images in our sport; that of a women competing with all her heart, not a man. The video of her during that race has been credited with inspiring thousands of people to take up triathlon and Ironman. During the period that followed Paula Newby-Fraser was just as famous as any of the men competing, and the women’s race at Kona has been as compelling as any of the men’s races. The famous “crawl off” at Kona didn’t happen between two men, but two women with a fierce competitiveness. The pro women at Kona get as much air time as the men; and when the men’s race is over, people don’t stop watching, but stay glued to their computers to watch the women race. Log onto ST during Kona and jump on the live Kona thread; the men here are just as excited about the women’s race as the men’s. This is practically unheard of in any other sport (witness how many people watch pro women’s basketball or other sports). Women triathlon started in the Olympics at the same time as the men; women get the same purses as the men; women have more events to choose from due to hundreds of women’s-only triathlons; in short, there is nothing but the utmost support in this sport for women, and there always has been.
And what about on the periphery of the sport? Triathlon magazine is edited by a woman. The event director for Kona is a woman (and who is also a WTC senior VP). A woman used to own Ironman Hawaii (Valerie Silk). One of the most popular books about the sport is by Chrissie Wellington (I own two books about triathlon; Ironwar and A Life Without Limits). Women aren’t just in the sport, they are also a part of running it and writing about it.
And yet, after all that, a man is not welcome to speak at a women’s event simply because he is a man. Have we not, as a sport, gotten past that sort of thing?
Sorry, maybe I’m a just a knuckle dragging neanderthal, but I just don’t get it.
You said it better than I could. Props to you. I hadn’t read the other thread because I wasn’t interested in it by the title of the thread. Triathlon is a sport that has no gender boundaries in my eyes as I repeatedly get my ass handed to me by women and that is cool!
Understanding demographics are vital to growing the sport. Right now, we’ve got the middle aged, white, middle to upper class dudes pretty much locked it. So, where are the areas for improvement? Clearly, African-heritages people (of any nationality) are under-represented in triathlon. So are the Asians. There are others. The more diversity amongst the group, the more stable and better off the sport will be as a whole.
As for the woman breakfast thing, I seem to have flip-flopped sides. Here’s what I’ve come to realize since this morning… The group has goals and objectives (most of which I’d bet are getting older female triathletes together to do female triathlete things) (whatever that means). It’s a Master’s Woman’s Triathlon Club (or something like that).
They’re not anti- dudes (at least, I don’t think so). They’re pro-women. If it was your run-of-the-mill triathlon club, I’d still be on the bandwagon. However, this is a women’s only group on purpose. I have no problem with them setting up such a group if that’s what they want. (Aside- If there is/ was a man’s equivalent, I wouldn’t care nor join that either.) Therefore, I understand the desire for the womens to want a women at that function and they seem justified in expressing that. (I do disagree in the manner in which the original thread was started. I could have been done more tactfully.)
Imagine the discussion if they invited a football coach to talk at the Kona Sports Awards Banquet. Some would think it would be awesome. Not me- I can’t stand football. I think it would be a sham if there were all of these first class triathletes and tri-coaches floating around and they picked a football guy. Now, he might have something brilliant to discuss and a great message. Still, I’d have a hard time getting fired up to want to listen to him talk (not that I’m good enough to get within 1500 miles of that banquet but I think you get my point).
Understanding demographics are vital to growing the sport. Right now, we’ve got the middle aged, white, middle to upper class dudes pretty much locked it. So, where are the areas for improvement? Clearly, African-heritages people (of any nationality) are under-represented in triathlon. So are the Asians. There are others. The more diversity amongst the group, the more stable and better off the sport will be as a whole.
As for the woman breakfast thing, I seem to have flip-flopped sides. Here’s what I’ve come to realize since this morning… The group has goals and objectives (most of which I’d bet are getting older female triathletes together to do female triathlete things) (whatever that means). It’s a Master’s Woman’s Triathlon Club (or something like that).
They’re not anti- dudes (at least, I don’t think so). They’re pro-women. If it was your run-of-the-mill triathlon club, I’d still be on the bandwagon. However, this is a women’s only group on purpose. I have no problem with them setting up such a group if that’s what they want. (Aside- If there is/ was a man’s equivalent, I wouldn’t care nor join that either.) Therefore, I understand the desire for the womens to want a women at that function and they seem justified in expressing that. (I do disagree in the manner in which the original thread was started. I could have been done more tactfully.)
Imagine the discussion if they invited a football coach to talk at the Kona Sports Awards Banquet. Some would think it would be awesome. Not me- I can’t stand football. I think it would be a sham if there were all of these first class triathletes and tri-coaches floating around and they picked a football guy. Now, he might have something brilliant to discuss and a great message. Still, I’d have a hard time getting fired up to want to listen to him talk (not that I’m good enough to get within 1500 miles of that banquet but I think you get my point).
I get it somewhat, but not entirely. I don’t really buy the football coach analogy; the guy that was invited had an awesome resume, the only problem was that he was a he and not a she. My other problem with this whole attitude is that it is hugely hypocritical; women aren’t asked to speak at a men’s only group because a men’s only group can’t even exist these days. I can’t even imagine the horror of a men’s only group (if one could even be started, which it can’t) saying a women wasn’t welcome to speak at their event. You know, and I know, and anyone with any integrity knows, that even though triathlon is arguably one of the most gender-neutral sports there is, a men’s only gig is a non-starter, much less walking out of a event because they had a woman come as the key note speaker.
I am another woman that doesn’t get the point of all these “women-only” gatherings, and excluding people based on gender (or any other attribute that is beyond their control.)
And spot, further, none of the “oh my god it’s horrible they asked a man to speak” crowd is actually willing to debate or discuss the topic; they’re only interested in firing back how we must be men, or not get it. Not one concrete reason is provided.
Thanks for posting what you did even though I have not been at the other thread. As a coach of youth sports and specifically youth XC skiing, it really annoys me that the young girls are immediately get different event distances. When the boys XC ski 5000m the girls do 3000m. When the boys do 10K, the girls do 7.5K. It is really annoying for all the reasons you point out, because over here in triathlon, our women race the exact same distance as men. I thought Joan Benoit nailed that entire arguement back in 1984 when she ran 2:24 at the LA Olympics marathon. That was back in 1984 and more importantly it was a few months after she had her knee scoped, which at the time was revolutionary. Julie Moss was cool, but that was a bit of freak show. Joan Benoit in my book really raised the bar in terms of women truly racing over long distances. A few year later, right here in triathlon we had the Puntous twin…then the long legacy of champions from PNF, to Erin Baker, Natasha Badmann, Heather Fuhr, Lori Bowden, Michelle Jones, Chrissie Wellington, Mirinda Carfrae and Leanda Cave. These ladies are rock stars in our sport on par with any of the top pro men.
I totally agree…our sport should be way beyond this type of discussion. If anything as a sport we truly are leaders.
There is one area that I think we as sport on the media side can do much better. It is in race reporting in the sense that most press articles typically lead with the men’s race and then the women’s. To some degree, I can forgive that when it is a mass start, because the men come across the line first. However, when they have separate starts, or in the case of ITU races, when the women have their own race, it would be nice if the articles from time to time would lead with the coverage of the women’s race (especially the ITU stuff), because quite often the women’s race is way more exciting anyway (the Brownlees may has well moonwalk in the last kilometer and still win).
And to the other poster, while I’d like to see more so called minorities in the sport, I don’t think we should do anything special that we don’t do for everyone. The sport is open to everyone. You just have to learn how to do the three sports, then sign up and race. I know that oversimplifies it because perhaps some may not come from the rigth economic background. I can’t say I had a bad economic background by any means, but no one gave me a free path to enter this sport because I happen to look different than the other middle age 45-49 guys. I joined the armed forces, got an education while having the drill staff shout at me daily…but now I have the means to play. It’s available to everyone…no real need to do something special. Those who want it will figure out a way and come and play. Look at Manny Huerta…his parents came as penniless refugees and he made team USA for London 2012. Nothing was getting in the way of a boy with enough heart.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not in support of the concept of a establishing discriminating clubs. I find the concept of having women’s only triathlons or clubs just as hypocritical as you (Since this is America, they have the right to do so. We have the right to do so as well. Sure, it won’t be popular and would likely be met with lots of negative emotions but it’s also not illegal). However, if they went through the effort of setting up such a club and hosting functions I can understand why members of that group have expectations. It matches their mission and vision of the group. That’s what I think the issue is in that thread and I get it. I don’t necessarily agree with it, but I get it.
I, personally, would listen to any male or female with a resume not even half as impressive as the guy they found. Dude seems great. But, it’s not about me. It’s about them and their group.
I agree with you also on the role and representation of women in triathlon. I think that they get the same coverage as the men’s field and the women’s triathlon is pretty kick ass. I’ll never argue that. Maybe a beef could be made on the number of Kona slots given to the mens and womens pros. That, however, might just be a reflection of the size of the respective fields (and, percentage wise, might even favor the ladies). Certainly there were several womens that were justified in their complaint of the wave start at IMMT this year (they went all mens waves first, then womens). I don’t believe that was a discrimination thing but more of a sucky wave planning thing (much like when they put the m-35-45 as last waves… it sucks).
And spot, further, none of the “oh my god it’s horrible they asked a man to speak” crowd is actually willing to debate or discuss the topic; they’re only interested in firing back how we must be men, or not get it. Not one concrete reason is provided.
I find that women are sexualized, even in triathlon.
I think it despicable that women who perform well are masculinized and men who get beat by women are “chicked”
And spot, further, none of the “oh my god it’s horrible they asked a man to speak” crowd is actually willing to debate or discuss the topic; they’re only interested in firing back how we must be men, or not get it. Not one concrete reason is provided.
I find that women are sexualized, even in triathlon.
I think it despicable that women who perform well are masculinized and men who get beat by women are “chicked”
So there: two things you don’t “get”.
Maybe in your world but I know a lot of pro and elite age-group women and I have never masculinized any of them based upon performance.,in fact I am always in awe of the top women in all sports…There are one or two elite females who could beat me up if they wanted but I’m okay with that…To me there is nothing more beautiful than an elite female in full flight.
And spot, further, none of the “oh my god it’s horrible they asked a man to speak” crowd is actually willing to debate or discuss the topic; they’re only interested in firing back how we must be men, or not get it. Not one concrete reason is provided.
I find that women are sexualized, even in triathlon.
I think it despicable that women who perform well are masculinized and men who get beat by women are “chicked”
So there: two things you don’t “get”.
Here’s what you don’t “get:” You are making gross assumptions about what other people think with zero evidence. To take what Toby wrote and draw the conclusions you did about what he thinks is preposterous. You have absolutely no clue what he gets or doesn’t get.
I think it despicable that women who perform well are masculinized … .
You clearly run in different circles than me. Do you think the top women pros are masculinized? For the most part, they are sexy as hell. My cycling club consists of many female riders who are accepted by the group as equals, generally kick ass racing and many quite capable of kicking my ass on the bike and off. Yet, the majority are very attractive and very much women. Ever wobbled on your line around a strong female rider, like a former elite national road champ? You don’t want to, believe me.
I’m of two minds about this. On the one hand, I’d like to believe that in our sport in 2013 the notion that woman are treated unequally, or are less accomplished than their male peers, is unsupported by the evidence. But then I read some of the posts on the other thread. the “ladies”? the women are “sexy as hell”? I mean, fellas, aren’t these sorts of comments just a tad bit sexist or, more to the point, are you surprised that a woman may find them to be so? And do you think that’s unreasonable?
Look. I’m a guy in my late 40s. I’m old enough to remember what it used to be like for women. And fortunate enough to have witnessed the shift in attitudes. But it wasn’t an easy shift, and it didn’t come without a fight. So if my female peers prefer to have a woman as the keynote speaker, I understand and accept that. It’s their right to do so. I don’t feel threatened by it, and I don’t think it’s unfairly discriminatory.
And I’ll add my voice to the chorus of male athletes who’ve expressed respect and admiration for their female counterparts. I have the privilege of training with women who are going to/have gone to Kona. Each one of them has kicked my ass in the pool and on the road. Many times. They are terrific competitors and wonderfully supportive. They serve as terrific role models in this sport for men and women alike. And, oh yeah, I regard them as being fing amazing athletes - not fing amazing female athletes.
A lot of great points and as a woman I completely agree that in general triathlon is one of the very few sports where the men’s and women’s performances are equally of interest. Tell me that triathletes weren’t glued to Chrissie Wellington’s performance at Kona in 2011… my husband and I had it streaming live on our TV all day and in general the coverage was fairly equal between the men and women. The only other time we come even close to seeing equal interest/coverage when it comes to gender in sports may be in the Olympics. I’ve been an avid athlete for most of my life and find it somewhat discouraging that there are different shorter distances for women. As a military officer I’ve also seen this happen for physical fitness tests… I understand that there are some areas (few) where women may physically be at a disadvantage but “female push-ups” on your knees were a joke. Also I know they certainly mean to do well but certain running or triathlon series that have mini events specifically geared towards women seem somewhat demeaning to me as I’m certainly more than capable of competing at the normal distances and enjoy beating the men just as much as the women and I don’t need a shorter/easier distance. Granted it’s great for women that may be intimidated of the full distance and may help ease them into the sport but I’m sure there are many overweight middle-aged men that fit that bill as well. Great post and thanks for reminding me of another reason why triathlon is such a great sport/lifestyle. FYI - I’m not offended that there is a male speaker at the Women’s Kona Breakfast but I can see why some people may be initially surprised - I’m sure his message/speech will be geared towards women and I hope that people still come and don’t discriminate because he’s not a woman.
