I thought this was about the “children”. Well, we finally see the truth. It’s about the DOLLARS. Fuck you, you take my dollars and dont give me what I want, FUCK YOU AND THE CHILDREN, I am going home! Eat me you cheese whiz dorks! And please stay in Cheese head land, dont move to Ca, we already have enough union goons here fucking our once great state UP!
Maybe they are retiring early so they can come to Cali and work in our thriving Solar Industry
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Zing
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I thought this was about the “children”. Well, we finally see the truth. It’s about the DOLLARS. Fuck you, you take my dollars and dont give me what I want, FUCK YOU AND THE CHILDREN, I am going home! Eat me you cheese whiz dorks! And please stay in Cheese head land, dont move to Ca, we already have enough union goons here fucking our once great state UP!
http://news.yahoo.com/...hZ2UEdGVzdAM-;_ylv=3
Umm. No. They are retiring under the ‘old’ union contract that gives them better bennies at lower cost than if they kept working and came under the new paradigm. You would do the exact same thing. I sure as hell would.
Got it. So they are greedy bastards and all those signs that said “IT’s FOR THE CHILDREN” was CRAPOLA. Greedy ass lying goose-stepping brownshirts!
I sorry but I didn’t follow the original story too closely, but a “for the children” argument back then would have been very difficult to swallow. It was obviously about unions and workers rights of civil servants who happen to be teachers. I guess you could bring up a “for the children” argument by saying that the state has essentially reduced the benefits of being a teacher and thus will get lower quality instruction in their classrooms.
Greedy ass lying goose-stepping brownshirts!
Wait, what?
Got it. So they are greedy bastards and all those signs that said “IT’s FOR THE CHILDREN” was CRAPOLA. Greedy ass lying goose-stepping brownshirts!
Union or no, I would do the exact same thing. Many industries use this tactic to ‘force’ people out in their late careers. Regardless of how they feel about the job, they have to consider their own future first. Remember that you are first…right after me.
I sorry but I didn’t follow the original story too closely, but a “for the children” argument back then would have been very difficult to swallow. It was obviously about unions and workers rights of civil servants who happen to be teachers. I guess you could bring up a “for the children” argument by saying that the state has essentially reduced the benefits of being a teacher and thus will get lower quality instruction in their classrooms.
During the original saga, which included over a week of protests at the state capital, the teachers unions repeatedly cried “for the children.” It was ridiculous. It was a farce. It made them look pathetic. It (meaning the protests) was not every about the children.
Got it. So they are greedy bastards and all those signs that said “IT’s FOR THE CHILDREN” was CRAPOLA. Greedy ass lying goose-stepping brownshirts!
Union or no, I would do the exact same thing. Many industries use this tactic to ‘force’ people out in their late careers. Regardless of how they feel about the job, they have to consider their own future first. Remember that you are first…right after me.
You are right and we all know this. But, this “reality” flies in the face of what the teacher protestors were crying during the protests. All we heard about was that teachers were in this profession for the children and that their efforts in the protests were for the children. We were to believe that teaching was “a calling” and not “a job” or “a career.” We were to believe that teachers were above all that.
Of course, we all knew that was a load of crap. Like 99.9% of the working public, no matter how much you love your job, it still is about earning a living. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. That is the reality of life. It is just that we got tired of having smoke blown up our ass via claims that teachers are above that.
Please try not to sound any more like an idiot than you already do.
My Dad worked for Ford as an casting engineer and eventually fairly high management. He was intrumental in desiging a process that took a German aluminum hand-casting process (the Cosworth process) and making it work for a mostly automated assembly line. Ford actually gave him over $100,000 for that patent. He then came back to the U.S. and designed a plant (that has been duplicated around the world) that cast these aluminum engine blacks. The problem was that it was in Canada. My Dad is a U.S. citizen and resides in Detroit. His green card expired and basically he was no longer able to work at the Windsor Aluminum Plant that he designed.
Ford transferred him back to their World Headquarters in Dearborn, but the problem was he had been a casting engineer for his whole career. Ford really had no more interest in making parts anymore. So they told him that he would be placed on a middle management team at Headquarters at a grade 8. He was previously a grade 15. He would be allowed to finish his career (30 years) out with pay and benefits (including pension) as a grade 15. If he went 1 day past 30 years, he would be reduced to a grade 8.
This crushed my Dad. He would have loved nothing m ore than to continue working for Ford. He loved his work. He loved the accomplishment. But you can’t work your life and count on benefits and then have them taken away like that. He was forced to retire. It is a shame and I believe that Ford is a weaker company without someone like my Dad.
These teachers are no different. They have gotten to a point in their careers where they don’t have a choice but to protect what they have earned. Would you expect them to give up what they have already earned? I wouldn’t, and I doubt that you would either.
I know this may be an unpopular way to think, but just because you are a government employee, doesn’t mean you are an indentured servant. It doesn’t mean that the services you provide (be it teaching, being a cop, being a firefighter) aren’t valuable and that you shouldn’t be adequately compensated for them.
Bernie
Please try not to sound any more like an idiot than you already do.
My Dad worked for Ford as an casting engineer and eventually fairly high management. He was intrumental in desiging a process that took a German aluminum hand-casting process (the Cosworth process) and making it work for a mostly automated assembly line. Ford actually gave him over $100,000 for that patent. He then came back to the U.S. and designed a plant (that has been duplicated around the world) that cast these aluminum engine blacks. The problem was that it was in Canada. My Dad is a U.S. citizen and resides in Detroit. His green card expired and basically he was no longer able to work at the Windsor Aluminum Plant that he designed.
Ford transferred him back to their World Headquarters in Dearborn, but the problem was he had been a casting engineer for his whole career. Ford really had no more interest in making parts anymore. So they told him that he would be placed on a middle management team at Headquarters at a grade 8. He was previously a grade 15. He would be allowed to finish his career (30 years) out with pay and benefits (including pension) as a grade 15. If he went 1 day past 30 years, he would be reduced to a grade 8.
This crushed my Dad. He would have loved nothing m ore than to continue working for Ford. He loved his work. He loved the accomplishment. But you can’t work your life and count on benefits and then have them taken away like that. He was forced to retire. It is a shame and I believe that Ford is a weaker company without someone like my Dad.
These teachers are no different. They have gotten to a point in their careers where they don’t have a choice but to protect what they have earned. Would you expect them to give up what they have already earned? I wouldn’t, and I doubt that you would either.
I know this may be an unpopular way to think, but just because you are a government employee, doesn’t mean you are an indentured servant. It doesn’t mean that the services you provide (be it teaching, being a cop, being a firefighter) aren’t valuable and that you shouldn’t be adequately compensated for them.
Bernie
I feel for your story. Ford is worse off without your dad. And many WI schools are worse off without the teachers that retired. Here is the difference:
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see JSA’a post above about how the portrayal was that they were “above” all of this because of the noble cause of the children vs. just being a noble professional, like your father who was in it for the nobility of the work and creating new parts vs. the nobility of being in it for children. In the end they were both faced with a decision they may not have wanted and did what was in their best interest (which I have no problem with)
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In my opinion many of these teachers were scared into retiring by leadership and/or members of their unions under the “sky is falling get out now” propaganda. This really wasn’t in their best interest, and they will realize soon that they could have remained teaching for a number of years to serve both themselves and their students while having made very mild financial and work place concessions. Contrary to what is being spewed by the unions, most of us WI taxpayers want good schools and teachers for our children and are willing to pay our teachers handsomely and treat them and their classrooms with dignity and respect it order to get just that
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the rampant abuse in WI betweeen teachers and school boards relative to teachers in some districts “retiring” this spring to lock in their retirement packages, then being “re-hired” 30 days later at their same pay rate (in many cases without other candidates being interviewed) is just starting to surface. I should point out, in most cases, these are in smaller school districts where this type of crap is easily done, overlooked and condoned in most cases.
In fights like this, teachers are in a bit of a no win situation. The Wisconsin legislation reduces their power to bargain collectively, and gives the State the right to increase class sizes, increase the school day, require teachers to put portions of their pay into mandatory retirement accounts and health insurance, all without increases to pay. Part of the teachers’ refrain about “it’s for the children” is directed towards this exact outcome. They knew that this legislation would result in more teachers retiring than usual, for obvious reasons that every sane person would also share if similar circumstances existed in their career path. The loss of experienced teachers does hurt students and younger teachers as well.
Obviously, a good bit of the fight was simply about continuing to have greater control over how much they get paid, and how much they can retire with, but if they represent it that way, they get crucified. And if they represent it as being for the kids, they also get crucified. I’m not necessarily agreeing with the Wisconsin teachers in this case. I’m not that familiar with it, since I don’t live there. But I’m also not sure it’s fair to excoriate them when they fight for their pay and financial concerns on the grounds that “they’re supposed to only care about kids.” It’s a bit of blackmail.
You teachers care about the kids right? So you better not say anything when we completely take away your right to collectively bargain or reduce your retirement or increase class sizes or increase your work day/year without giving you any extra pay, because we’ll just paint you as not caring about children if you do!
hmmmmmm, I can’t imagine why anyone would want to leave.
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The loss of experienced teachers does hurt students and younger teachers as well.
I do not agree with this statement. Some of the best teachers I had were younger teachers who had a real passion for what they did. Many of my friends who went into teaching (middle and high school) have told me their biggest fights are with the older teachers who are reluctant to change and even more reluctant to listen to young faculty who may have very good ideas.
The loss of experienced teachers does hurt students and younger teachers as well.
I do not agree with this statement. Some of the best teachers I had were younger teachers who had a real passion for what they did. Many of my friends who went into teaching (middle and high school) have told me their biggest fights are with the older teachers who are reluctant to change and even more reluctant to listen to young faculty who may have very good ideas.
+1 I was going to make the same comment. I have a daughter in school and see a lot of young teachers that are excited about teaching and love the job. Many of the older teachers just don’t care any more. Obviously there are exceptions, but people shouldn’t generalize that more experienced teachers are better.
The loss of experienced teachers does hurt students and younger teachers as well.
I do not agree with this statement. Some of the best teachers I had were younger teachers who had a real passion for what they did. Many of my friends who went into teaching (middle and high school) have told me their biggest fights are with the older teachers who are reluctant to change and even more reluctant to listen to young faculty who may have very good ideas.
+1 I was going to make the same comment. I have a daughter in school and see a lot of young teachers that are excited about teaching and love the job. Many of the older teachers just don’t care any more. Obviously there are exceptions, but people shouldn’t generalize that more experienced teachers are better.
The 1st grade teacher my 2 oldest had just retired after 27 yrs at the end of last school year because of the topic in the OP. We wished she hadn’t as she was fantastic for our kids. My youngest got a 1st grade teacher with 3 years experience at the same school (had the other one not retired we would have requested and most likely received her for our 1st grader). 3 weeks in we couldn’t be happier with how passionate she is about teaching and how much she cares about her students (including ours).
Conversely, there is a “specials” teacher at the school who I believe is <10 years experience that has clearly packed it in passion wise for one career. It’s too bad, more for the teacher than for me; long life and career to be that unhappy. Not a battle I care to fight as it doesn’t have a huge impact on my kids; except they clearly notice it in this teacher.
Life goes on. The sky has not fallen. Good and caring teachers are in the classrooms of WI. And good and caring parents respect and support them.
“I do not agree with this statement. Some of the best teachers I had were younger teachers who had a real passion for what they did. Many of my friends who went into teaching (middle and high school) have told me their biggest fights are with the older teachers who are reluctant to change and even more reluctant to listen to young faculty who may have very good ideas.”
The existence of good young teachers and poor old teachers doesn’t invalidate the value of experienced teachers as mentors for new teachers and for children.
“I do not agree with this statement. Some of the best teachers I had were younger teachers who had a real passion for what they did. Many of my friends who went into teaching (middle and high school) have told me their biggest fights are with the older teachers who are reluctant to change and even more reluctant to listen to young faculty who may have very good ideas.”
The existence of good young teachers and poor old teachers doesn’t invalidate the value of experienced teachers as mentors for new teachers and for children.
fortunately, here in WI, now that we are not subject to collective bargaining, we can evaluate good young teachers, good old teachers, poor young teachers, and poor old teachers to the best of our abilities and keep those that are the “goodest” regardless of age and experience. Prior to this we were subject to seniority regardless of whether they were “good” or “poor”.