Winter Running in Snow

I did an experiment this morning for both you and me - it was -21c (-6f) without windchill and I was heading out for my usual 10-ish kilometer run down to the market. I was wearing an insulated jacket that doesn’t have the back cyclist pockets, and didn’t want to faff with a whole hydration pack, so decided to try something with stuff I had on hand.

I mixed up 500ml of skratch in a Hydrapak Stow bottle - mostly to lower the freezing point of the liquid, not necessarily because I need calories (though with another run plus a hockey game later in the day, fueling the work isn’t a bad idea). I put the bottle - which has a flip cap over the valve that I find effective at preventing leakage that could occur with a bite valve flask - in my Janji multipass waist bag.

(The bottle sprung a leak very early in its life - tyre repair patches work great to fix them)

I’m sure any bum bag would do, but this one is really nice and I got it for like $40CAD used off Poshmark. You could also try something like the Naked or Raise running belt

Off I bopped into the sunny, snowy, frosty morning. It was no big deal to swing the bag to the front and grab the flask, have a drink, stow it (ha, ha), then keep on rollin’, even with not-particularly-dextrous mittens on

I was out for 1h24m, and - thanks to the warmth of my lower back, plus keeping the flask out of the wind back there - the contents had not even chilled to the temperature they would be in a refrigerator. I have a lot of confidence this would keep flasks from freezing indefinitely, as long as you were working hard enough to keep the heat pumping out from your lumbar area.

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Got into a bit of a situation on Sunday that I was able to manage with what I think was a pretty good idea, and figured I’d share in case it helps someone out.

I was running a trail (crushed gravel main trail plus singletrack offshoots) that had some nasty flooding a few weeks back - it’s along the Speed and Grand Rivers, with an amazing lookout at the confluence of the two.

(It faces roughly west, so is very popular at sunset - you can see deer, beaver, muskrat, minks, herons, swans, bald eagles, osprey, red tailed hawks, snow geese, Canada geese, and all manner of ducks)

It was -13c (6f) and snowing hard. The trails were beautiful, but I could still hear ice shifting under the snow as I toddled along.

The flooding had frozen then receded, leaving voids below the ice that make it unsafe; same reason municipal stormwater management/drainage ponds have warnings about going out on their ice. 10cm/4” of thickness is safe to walk on when supported by water, but needs to be much thicker to be safe when an air pocket has opened below.

I noped out on one bit of singletrack - there’s a small pond there that had jumped its banks last time I was down, and I could see broken slabs of ice over it with no clear way through or around.

So that was me being smart by not risking a slab of ice shifting and either hurting me (I’d already stepped into a hole and sort of banged the front of my ankle on a big chunk of ice hidden under the snow), or dumping me into water and risking hypothermia.

(I was heavily dressed but the wind and snow were pretty vicious)

So, heading back, I got stupid - I took the singletrack that goes right along the riverbank. I got about 3/4km into it before I remembered it had also been flooded at the bottom of the fairly steep ramp up to the main trail right by the confluence lookout. I didn’t really have time to go back, as I had a hockey game that afternoon. As I looked ahead, I saw the trail disappear under the river ice..

I was able to move uphill a bit and pick my way through the trees - walking carefully and testing each step - but soon it became impossible not to traverse the ice to proceed.

My self-rescue picks were unhelpfully sitting at home. I had nothing except a small water flask and my cellphone with me. I could call for help, but would I be able to manage that if I’d fallen through the ice? Would my hands work, or my brain?

My husband had been out for a walk on the same trail, but turned back quickly when he realized his gloves were wet and his fingers were freezing up - he was back at the trailhead. So, I pulled out my phone and called him: I put the phone on speaker, told him exactly where I was, and explained that I had to traverse the river ice. I asked him to stay on the phone with me, and if I stopped responding or he heard sounds of cracking or splashing to call 911. I carefully picked my way through, hearing ominous creaks..

(This was further back - you can see some broken-off slabs of ice along the river bank at centre left)

It seemed to take forever as I inched forward, my feet sliding occasionally on slanted ice under the snow - I almost thought I’d missed the rampway up to the main trail. I landmarked off an island at the confluence, though, and suddenly..

I thanked my husband for hanging on the line with me until I was safe once more, and told him I’d see him in 15mins or less.

So my pro tip is: if you get yourself into a dicey situation that might preclude the possibility of you being able to call for help, make the call in advance! Just chat with someone - your partner, a friend, a parent - to whom you can give your position and situation, for them to call emergency services in case you drop off the line. Best case scenario you just have a nice little chat and laugh a bit about being silly enough to get yourself into something sketchy - worst case scenario you’re taking action to save your own life, and give those who love you some peace of mind.

(* Of course this assumes that you have cellular coverage and sufficient battery. Charge that sucker before heading out when conditions are rough, and keep it in a warm pocket to keep it from freezing the battery!)

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There is a thread someplace which asks “what is a long run?”'or how far is your long run?" or something along those lines

My reply was, I believe, “‘Long’ is defined by any run or ride whereupon completion of same I am greeted by D’Wife with: ‘Where the fuck have you been?’”

With your tip-toeing across the ice, we can also say that “long” has nothing to do with distance

“When everything goes wrong, that’s when ‘Adventure’ begins” - Yvon Chouinard

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Interesting results - thanks for sharing. I do have a winter cycling coat with a pocket that’s partly inside - I might try putting some fluid in there and seeing how it does. Though I’m usually bringing 1.5L with me so that might get heavy in that spot. At the very least it might allow 2 loop courses instead of 3-4.

Though with the low temps this weekend I just chickened out and opted for a long ride inside and a short treadmill run off the bike. Perks of being a triathlete I guess is that we can pick and choose our workouts a bit more. My training partner is doing Boston so had no choice but to eat all 29k on the treadmill.

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We have a new term to use for people who claim to enjoy running outdoors in the snow, thanks to Mina Kimes and Pablo Torre Finds Out show

“Brrr-tue Signaling”

She was specifically talking about people who believe football games played in the snow are fun to watch, but I think we can move that over here

“It’s the same people who love bragging about how they live in the Northeast, and they wear shorts in the Winter, and you’re so soft on the West Coast …”

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Ugh, just run your own run. I would rather be a bit too warm than too cold, and it’s not been above -10c/11f for weeks - I’m out shoveling my driveway basically every day (sometimes more than once), and for that I’ll just throw on a thick sweater because I know I’ll stay warm from the work, but -crucially - I’m also only a few steps from a warm house with more clothes if I need them.

When running in this arctic weather, I’m not fucking about. This is what I looked like after running Thursday night at -17c/1f

..and at -21c/-6f (ran again later because my hockey game was cancelled due to a broken zamboni)

Let the brr-tue signallers get frostbite - I’ll just have a lot of smelly laundry.

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Actually I just remembered a kind of funny story from a few years ago:

I was running a 72hr event in mid-October and - after one sunny afternoon to start off Thursday - it rained every 4 hours. The start/finish/AS/crew area was in a wind-blasted field full of mud, and temperatures were only about 15c/59f during the day and down to 2c/35f overnight. The mud made it challenging to run, so everyone was walking a lot, especially in the dark.

A guy showed up to pace an acquaintance of mine overnight. Bloody idiot showed up in shorts and a wind jacket, because trail bro. He ended up needing to spend most of the night in the heated AS/crew tent instead of actually pacing, because he went hypothermic within the first two (1 mile) laps. He was supposed to be there as an asset to a runner and ended up being a liability to everyone instead because “durrr wear shorts when run”

I wanted to put this in the “Surfing” thread, but I bumped into the “no more than 3 posts in a row” rule

Skating in the beach in Wildwood, NJ

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Oh! It gets better!!!

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That’s one heck of an ODR!

How bright was the moon when I was out snowshoe running through the sunset this evening? :full_moon:

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Laura is getting into “Weather Tax” territory

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Here in Ottawa, we have the Rideau Canal which goes through the middle of the city and since it ends where all the government buildings are located, the city very much has a ‘skate commute to work’ thing going on.

(Related to winter running) There’s a thin strip of snow and ice that they maintain on the side of the ice for walkers. Its basically the snow/ice freeze/refreeze with sometimes packed snow on top that’s suitable for walking or running. I gave it a try today on my lunch break. It isn’t much faster than running on the MUP beside the canal, which has devolved into a morass of soft snow, but at least its consistent. Fortunately/unfortunately they don’t salt next to the canal so as to maintain the waterway, so our city’s best running path tends to be less than useful in winter.

Anyway, here’s a stock photo showing better running conditions than usual

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Hey Tim, I actually needed to pick up a 1L Hydrapak Stow bottle last weekend for something else I have upcoming, but decided to test it in the Janji Multipass waist bag on Sunday when I was out running for over an hour through sunset woods with very cold snowpack and wind - it was about -10c with windchill of maybe -18c, but I tried with pure water instead of sport drink (I didn’t need a litre of water with me and only drank less than half, but this was for research)

The full bottle sit nicely in the bag and rode along nicely at my lower back - not uncomfortably heavy, no bounce, and easy to pull it to the front to access the bottle, then spin back to my back to keep running. The water never got colder than from a faucet.

So, it seems with the correct carrying system you might be down to 1-2 laps.

Bonus snowy sunset woods photos:

..and some hoarfrost from the other morning

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Awesome! Good to know that that’s an option - looking at the long-range forecast, we’re back to -20 and colder for my next long run.

I can only skip out on so many long runs before my training partner starts giving the eye. Normally I’m game for whatever weather, but with my main target this year as a 70.3 in July, I can generally afford to just swap out the runs for more indoor rides once the weather starts to get not so great. At this point its less about training miles and more about running with someone else.

Though FWIW, I’ve also started winter biking to work this year so I feel like my winter training chops are still up to snuff.

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UPDATE: I posted the “Weather Tax” in her comments and Laura + 4 other followers gave it a “Like” LOL

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I had the date wrong in my calendar — it actually went down on the 7th

Twelve years ago, never forget

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..and that’s why I wear trail shoes or spikes around my neighborhood.