Ok, gang I clicked on the Williams ad above and noticed that their aero wheels are decently priced. Anyone (not sponsored by them or working for them) have any experience with these wheels? Overall impressions, quality, aero, ride, etc. How do they stack up against a Flo for instance?
no experience with them but a question for those who may know. aren’t Williams Wheels just the old (ie patent expired) ZIPP rim shapes from a few years ago?
My father has owned a set for about 2 years now. He seems pretty happy with them. I do know he had mentioned when he bought them he thought they had pretty good communication and customer service.
If one can get 90-95% of the speed gain for 1/2 the price of Zipps, it seems like a no brainer.
Am looking at the 85 front…run that with a rear disc cover.
Ok, gang I clicked on the Williams ad above and noticed that their aero wheels are decently priced. Anyone (not sponsored by them or working for them) have any experience with these wheels? Overall impressions, quality, aero, ride, etc. How do they stack up against a Flo for instance?
I raced a pair of 58 Tubulars last season for ~8 collegiate cycling races (collegiate racing can be either crit / crit / crit or TTT / crit / road race in a weekend), including some pretty technical races and a very sadistic hillclimb. I was impressed - they handle well, they’re light, they’re stiff, and they roll well (ceramic bearings standard!).
There is something that very few people ever address: are they good wheels all-around? Sure, they can be stiff, but might not brake well. Similarly, they can be light, but would you want to hit a 60 mph descent on them? The Williams are confidence-inspiring wheels. They will treat you well. I would gladly race them in every race I’ve ever done, except some road races or triathlons where I’d go very deep (disk and 80mm up front, baby!).
**: I did not pay to ride these wheels. They were lent to me by a sponsored triathlete.
edit: I would put them on par with the Easton EC90 56mms and slightly stiffer (but less aero?) than the Zipp 404 tubular, which are the only other ~60mm tubulars I’ve ridden. I would go out on a limb and say they are as high quality as the Eastons.
Correct
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Ok, gang I clicked on the Williams ad above and noticed that their aero wheels are decently priced. Anyone (not sponsored by them or working for them) have any experience with these wheels? Overall impressions, quality, aero, ride, etc. How do they stack up against a Flo for instance?
We get this question fairly often. I posted the response below on another thread a while ago. I’ll post it again here. I believe some of Williams build specs may have changed slightly from the time I wrote this the last time, but the same general message applies. I’ve also written a two part blog series titled “The Ultimate Guide to Buying Race Wheels”, that take the most non biased approach I can take at purchasing race wheels. I won’t post the link here, but if you google the title, you’ll see it. Let me know if you have any questions.
To start I will say that Williams make great products. No if, ands or buts. about it. The reason I can say this is because they use some of the best factories on the planet to produce their products. Wheels are essentially a group of components put together to make a wheel. In Williams case (speaking about carbon wheels) you need hubs, spokes/nipples, and a carbon rim. A FLO wheel requires, hubs, spokes/nipples, an aluminum rim and a carbon fiber fairing. Now assuming both of those companies use skilled builders (which they do), you end up with a great product.
I think the biggest difference between Williams and FLO is the shape of the fairing/rim and what is the actual “structural” component of the wheel. Let’s start with the shape of the Fairing/rim.
To my knowledge (and I could be incorrect), Williams uses what is called an open-mold rim shape. What this means is a factory in Asia has spent the time and money developing a mold for an aero wheel. Wheel companies can then have said factory manufacture wheels for them using this open mold. However, any other wheel company can also use this same mold and put a different sticker on it. You’ll hear people on here saying that Williams uses a “Chinese” knock-off. Don’t listen to them. There is a big difference between getting your carbon fiber rims from a Chinese factory that popped up 6 months ago and arguably the best rim factory in Taiwan who has been making high quality products for over 20 years. Williams uses the later.
What we did at FLO was design our own rim shapes from scratch. We used CFD software to test a variety of rim shapes so that we could produce the fastest shapes we could. Once we had these shapes we went to Taiwan to meet with the same high quality factories and told them we want you to make our shapes. There are basically 2 ways you can do this.
- You can share the cost of the rim mold with the factory. This means you get to use the mold but they are also allowed to sell the technology to any other company who wants it.
- You pay for the molds yourself. This means the mold is proprietary to the owner and no other companies are allowed to use the mold.
We chose option number 2. There are plenty of pros and cons to doing this. First it’s really expensive and you have to wait very patiently through the engineering and prototyping phase working out small problems at every corner… BUT… you end up with a new proprietary and very fast product that is unique in the industry.
Going back to my structural comment, Williams wheels are full carbon wheels. This means that the carbon fiber is actually the structural component of the wheel and the braking surface. FLO wheels use aluminum rims/braking surface with carbon fiber fairings. The aluminum rim in our case is what is structural and the carbon fiber fairing is simply there to improve the aerodynamics.
Finally, the wheels spec out different. To give you a few examples, Williams wheels are around 19mm at the brake track, FLO wheels are 24.4mm. Williams wheels are lighter. FLO uses Sapim spokes, Williams uses Pillar. To be completely honest I think both FLO and Williams make great products. You can’t really say one is “better” than the other… they are just “different”. In the end, when buying a wheelset, customers need to determine what “different” is more important to them.
Take care,
Ok, gang I clicked on the Williams ad above and noticed that their aero wheels are decently priced. Anyone (not sponsored by them or working for them) have any experience with these wheels? Overall impressions, quality, aero, ride, etc. How do they stack up against a Flo for instance?
We get this question fairly often. I posted the response below on another thread a while ago. I’ll post it again here. I believe some of Williams build specs may have changed slightly from the time I wrote this the last time, but the same general message applies. I’ve also written a two part blog series titled “The Ultimate Guide to Buying Race Wheels”, that take the most non biased approach I can take at purchasing race wheels. I won’t post the link here, but if you google the title, you’ll see it. Let me know if you have any questions.
To start I will say that Williams make great products. No if, ands or buts. about it. The reason I can say this is because they use some of the best factories on the planet to produce their products. Wheels are essentially a group of components put together to make a wheel. In Williams case (speaking about carbon wheels) you need hubs, spokes/nipples, and a carbon rim. A FLO wheel requires, hubs, spokes/nipples, an aluminum rim and a carbon fiber fairing. Now assuming both of those companies use skilled builders (which they do), you end up with a great product.
I think the biggest difference between Williams and FLO is the shape of the fairing/rim and what is the actual “structural” component of the wheel. Let’s start with the shape of the Fairing/rim.
To my knowledge (and I could be incorrect), Williams uses what is called an open-mold rim shape. What this means is a factory in Asia has spent the time and money developing a mold for an aero wheel. Wheel companies can then have said factory manufacture wheels for them using this open mold. However, any other wheel company can also use this same mold and put a different sticker on it. You’ll hear people on here saying that Williams uses a “Chinese” knock-off. Don’t listen to them. There is a big difference between getting your carbon fiber rims from a Chinese factory that popped up 6 months ago and arguably the best rim factory in Taiwan who has been making high quality products for over 20 years. Williams uses the later.
What we did at FLO was design our own rim shapes from scratch. We used CFD software to test a variety of rim shapes so that we could produce the fastest shapes we could. Once we had these shapes we went to Taiwan to meet with the same high quality factories and told them we want you to make our shapes. There are basically 2 ways you can do this.
- You can share the cost of the rim mold with the factory. This means you get to use the mold but they are also allowed to sell the technology to any other company who wants it.
- You pay for the molds yourself. This means the mold is proprietary to the owner and no other companies are allowed to use the mold.
We chose option number 2. There are plenty of pros and cons to doing this. First it’s really expensive and you have to wait very patiently through the engineering and prototyping phase working out small problems at every corner… BUT… you end up with a new proprietary and very fast product that is unique in the industry.
Going back to my structural comment, Williams wheels are full carbon wheels. This means that the carbon fiber is actually the structural component of the wheel and the braking surface. FLO wheels use aluminum rims/braking surface with carbon fiber fairings. The aluminum rim in our case is what is structural and the carbon fiber fairing is simply there to improve the aerodynamics.
Finally, the wheels spec out different. To give you a few examples, Williams wheels are around 19mm at the brake track, FLO wheels are 24.4mm. Williams wheels are lighter. FLO uses Sapim spokes, Williams uses Pillar. To be completely honest I think both FLO and Williams make great products. You can’t really say one is “better” than the other… they are just “different”. In the end, when buying a wheelset, customers need to determine what “different” is more important to them.
Take care,
Thanks everyone, for the feedback.
I am struggling right now because I have an excellent deal on some Zipp 404/808 tubulars. However, I want to ride clinchers and I have a Power Tap / Open Pro rear. So, what I really need is a deep front and a disc cover. But the deal is almost too good to pass up!
I’m pretty certain that I’ll end up with either Flo or Williams.
Before you give up your powertap remember that a properly used power meter will do you far more good than a set of aero wheels. And remember… I’m saying that as a guy who makes his living selling aero wheels.
Hi All,
Sorry I am late to the thread. I just wanted to clarify a couple points from Canadian regarding our products.
Regarding our 38,58 and 85 carbon clinchers, they are our own molds and not open mold designs. We partnered with our agent regarding these designs. We also invested in a wheel testing machine that was big bucks but fantastic for testing wheel durability and breaking surface. It is an expensive process for sure but we are very happy with the results. We do use open mold designs for some of our other rims, which is common.
Our carbon clinchers are 21mm wide and our carbon tubulars are 20.5mm wide. They are not 19mm wide. Our alloy wheels are standard 19mm wide.
We use our own hub design “six sixty” tech. Six pawls and sixty ratchets vs. traditional 3 pawls and 24 ratchets. This builds a much more efficient hub.
Of the 12 sets or road wheels we manufacturer, 11 use Sapim CX-Ray. One uses Pillar. At this moment, Sapim CX-Ray is arguably the best spoke in the world. Pillar is a great spoke brand used by names such as Mavic and Campy etc…
In summary, it’s always tricky for one wheel brand to comment on another brand because most of the time, the info may be incorrect.
I will just add in that I have bought 2 sets of wheels from Keith (Williams), one with a PT (58’s) and their customer service is excellent on top of a great product. I will buy from them again.
Hi All,
Sorry I am late to the thread. I just wanted to clarify a couple points from Canadian regarding our products.
Regarding our 38,58 and 85 carbon clinchers, they are our own molds and not open mold designs. We partnered with our agent regarding these designs. We also invested in a wheel testing machine that was big bucks but fantastic for testing wheel durability and breaking surface. It is an expensive process for sure but we are very happy with the results. We do use open mold designs for some of our other rims, which is common.
Our carbon clinchers are 21mm wide and our carbon tubulars are 20.5mm wide. They are not 19mm wide. Our alloy wheels are standard 19mm wide.
We use our own hub design “six sixty” tech. Six pawls and sixty ratchets vs. traditional 3 pawls and 24 ratchets. This builds a much more efficient hub.
Of the 12 sets or road wheels we manufacturer, 11 use Sapim CX-Ray. One uses Pillar. At this moment, Sapim CX-Ray is arguably the best spoke in the world. Pillar is a great spoke brand used by names such as Mavic and Campy etc…
In summary, it’s always tricky for one wheel brand to comment on another brand because most of the time, the info may be incorrect.
Keith,
Thank you for correcting the facts above. I did mention that some of your specs may have changed in my original post and I want to be clear I’m not knocking your wheels in anyway. I know for a fact you make great products.
Have a great day.
You know, I remembered a while ago when you were coming out with your new rims you made the claim on here that they were “now torroidial”. I went ahead and bought a set and found they were the same v shape as before. Then on your Facebook page you said “well, it depends on what your definition of torroidial is.”
So, I got to thinking about this post you made. And I did about 2 minutes worth of Google work.
Looking at import records, you get your stuff from Irwin Co. LTD
http://www.importgenius.com/importers/williams-cycling-inc
Then if I google that company I get to their trading website
http://irwin.taiwantrade.com.tw/home/en_US
Look at that, I can buy your rims from them, I can even buy your hub from them. And it looks like they supply to other companies with your same rims and hubs. That is the definition of “open mould” and they are most definitely NOT your own moulds.
I suppose your reply to this will be “Well, I guess that depends on your definition of ‘open mould’” which is the same response I got when I fell for the torroidial story you told.
“I suppose your reply to this will be “Well, I guess that depends on your definition of ‘open mould’” which is the same response I got when I fell for the torroidial story you told.”
i don’t want to get into the middle of a nice catfight, just, i find it interesting that williams has been accused of selling a rebadged, patent expired zipp which, as far as i can surmise, would be a toroidal wheel, right? (i’m assuming it’s HED’s toroidal patent that zipp subsequently bought its way into?) and now it’s accused of not making a toroidal wheel?
We are getting into the nuances of the cycling industry which is interesting info. Irwin is our trading agent. All orders go through Irwin and has since inception of Williams. Irwin is not a manufacturer, they are a fantastic agent who represents many brands world wide. Williams/Irwin own the molds of our carbon clinchers as I said above. We split the costs because we have a many molds and they are not cheap. We do not allow these molds to be used in any of Williams global target markets. An individual or wheel brand cannot buy these rims without Williams/Irwin approval because we own them. However, if there is a brand in a non Williams market such as Asia or Russia, we will allow the brand to use our molds. It is a profit center. I know every brand who uses our molds. This is common. Many Euro brands with zero North American presence will license their designs. You can visit Irwin the Taipei Bike Show. Williams/Irwin would be happy to license the designs to your brand if you are not in a Williams market. You can contact Irwin and if they respond (you can imagine how many emails they get from individuals around the world), this will be confirmed. I hope this helps understand how these relationships work.
We really take our customer concerns to heart. We will happily refund our customers money if they receive a product that does not meet their expectations when opening the box. It’s our customers that keep me engaged and happy on the daily business.