A few years ago, it occurred to me that whenever I did a long swim and immediately got on the bike for a long ride, I noticed a few things that did not happen generally on long stanadalone bike rides. It took me some time to get my biking legs I generally had more “digestion issues” that I NEVER have on standalone rides I tended to fade 4 hours into the ride, while on a standalone long ride, I could often be reasonably strong for at least 5 hours if not the full 6 hours.
So I thought that the first step was to do more short “swim-bike” bricks. I started riding to the pool for my swim workouts and then I’d get out of the pool and treat the whole thing like a transition race simulation and get on the bike as quickly as possible and immediately pick up the pace. After a while, I got used to it. The outcome is that problem 1 cited above pretty well went away in racing.
I also have one workout a year (Epicman) where I do a long swim and then a full 180K bike. This is the only time I do a long swim before a long ride (mainly cause my pool is not open for a swim on weekend mornings). I found that the digestive issues were a lot different than long standalone rides, and the best solution was to wait ~30 min before taking in anything. Of course, this means you are now 90 min into the workout and already dehydrated, so I moved it back to 20 min into my ride. Not optimal, but gradually, I have dealt with my post swim digestive issues on the bike that often rear their head in Ironman (still have had digestive issues late in the bike).
Finally problem 3, which is a fade late in the Ironman bike which does not happen in standalone rides. Granted, my pace is higher in Ironmans, but 4 hours into an Ironman bike is 5 hours into the race, and depending on the course, I still have ~90-120 min of riding left. So what I had to do was include some longer rides of ~7 hours so that when the fade comes, I still have to keep riding for another 90-120 min, just like race day.
So I was wondering How many of you do the 1 hour swim+ 6 hour ride workout How many of you do the short swim-bike brick How many of you do the overdistance 7+ hour ride to experience the final 120 min of “difficult riding” like on race day?
It does amaze me though that the bike-run brick is so prevelant, yet the swim-bike brick is almost non existent in most programs. What use is the bike-run brick it you get to T2 with ZERO legs to run on?
Paolo, just speaking off my personal experience. You being a coach, perhaps you can weigh in on this topic with some useful insight that we can all benefit from? The topic might be bang on or I might be totally out to lunch. All you coaches who have data from several athletes might have some good analysis.
By the way, I am not saying a 12 hour ride is required, but either a 1 hour swim+6 hour ride or failing that at least a 7 hour ride. Thoughts?
How do you get to those numbers? Why not 6.5h ride? Or 7.25h? Should everyone do them? Or should you do them and then assume that it appropriate for anyone…
As for the subject of the swim followed by the bike, sometimes it does help to know a literature a bit.
I do, every Saturday, a Masters’ practice then my long ride (then a short run).
Pretty soon it’ll be just that - 1 hour swim, 6 hour ride.
I counsel people all of the time on how important this is. My evidence comes from my first Ironman, where I did not swim immediately prior to my long ride during training, and I bonked 2.5 hours into the ride. What I had not learned during that training regimen was just how severe the caloric demands of the swim are, and I was half empty when I got on the bike. Had I trained differently, I would have noticed that lack of energy during training and my race would have been much different.
Consequently, I have done the 1 hour swim, long ride now for quite some time. It works, and I learned that if I eat 2 PBJs as soon as possible on the bike, I fill my tank back up and I never bonk on the bike.
The demands of the swim are often underestimated in this fashion, if you ask me. I learned the hard way.
Well for the one and only IM so far, I did 45 min to 1 hour of masters then a 3 to 5 hour bike and alternated those into the program. I did a 7.5 hour 125 mile ride sort of by accident then a 30 min run after. It ended up being a REALLY windy day so it was slow and a wrong turn added 10 miles to the original ride plan (it was supposed to be a race sim). It was a great physical and mental training day and in hindsight would do it again. Keep in mind that most of my long rides were in the 5 to 6 hour range with great recoveries leading up so its not like jumping from 4 hours to 7 hours, which I’d never recommend.
So to your point, I think the transition from bike to swim in an IM is pretty shocking to the body and worth some practice.
My coach has me do a lot of SBR days. Not necessarily massive days, but I think your point is a good one. I usually get one in a week where the swim is at least an hour and depending on the total objective of the day the bike can be anywhere from 2-5 hours followed by a short transition run. Not only does it teach you about how to get your biking legs and settle your HR down, but also learn how to start out easier then you might usually do. It showed me how much more I needed to work on my swimming. Not necessarily to swim faster, but to make the next couple of hours a lot more stress free.
You mention the underesitmated demands of the swim. Add in a long sleeve wetsuit and a 77 degree Ironman North America swim (hell will freeze over when Graham Fraser sends off 2000 people for a mass start without the built in wetsuit lifejacket), and you are more cooked than you think post swim. For that reason, I prefer to give away ~90 seconds and go sleeveless so that I get less dehydrated and literally cooked in the swim.
Absolutely, agreed again. Besides calories, dehydration is a big issue. When else do we exercise for an hour or more and not take in 20 ounces of fluids and electrolytes? (and then do the rest of an Ironman).
I am an advocate of including several “big days” in your training program, ideally near the end of base. I structure those parameters suggested by Gordo/Friel in Going Long, scaled somewhat, as 50M Swim / 50M Ride / 50M Run (I think G/F use 60/60/60). The value I get from these days is pronounced. Not only do I get a good idea of my level of fitness but it forces me to deal with the secondary issues – mental preparation, nutrition and consumption, issue mitigation, etc. I find you cannot effectively develop a race ready nutrition strategy without inducing, as you note, the GI stress you might find on race day and swim/bike bricks are great ways to do that.
Hey Dev … you make good points. It’s funny how our sport has specific demands but many athletes don’t train those demands. A swim-bike-run combination is good for everybody but GREAT for inexperienced athletes or those looking to “figure some stuff out” … my point is variable times/distances for different folks dependoing on demands etc.
Simple progression every 3-4 weeks or so such as 20/20/20 THEN 30/30/30 THEN 40/40/40 … this would be 20min swim, 20mile or 2:00 bike, 20min run and so on … different lengths intensity/focus for diffferent race distances or athletes of different levels. The longer end of the bike rides (3:00 as opposed to 30miles) would be more appropriate for the long course athletes.
Dev, I don’t know why Paolo is especially obnoxious today. Someone must’ve slipped some creatine into his behind-the-saddle bottle.
As for the topic, I discovered how dead my legs were about 2 mins into the bike at Vineman. Took me a long time (30mins?) to feel normal. I had vowed to do lots of swim/bike bricks this season but rainy weather stopped that.
I’m starting up Friday, going 1hr and then into a ~3hr tempo bike. There will be about 20 mins between, though, as I have to get back home to ride. Going forward, Sundays will be swim/bike with no break between (different pool w/ ridable area around it).
Only you missing to make this the n=1 experts thread…
Hmm, let’s stop discussing since we’re not experts? We’ll leave it to the experts to lecture all day? Sweet! Better define ‘experts’, as some I know are just plain wrong on basic sensible stuff.
But then again, I’m fine taking advice from n=10, even if not experts, as that provides sufficient diversification.
FWIW, a couple experts I know think a 2/2/2 (hours each) workout once per week is the foundation of long course training. It actually works out to more like 1.5/2/1-1.5 though, as few elect to run that long.
Just to balance the point about workouts, there are also short workouts that I do. For example, today 25 min ride+45 min swim+30 min ride :-). From time to time, I also do 20 min runs or 20 min rides (standalone) too. Does that qualify as short enough?