I have had my vasa for about a year and I love it! I do agree that is not that aerobic butt my cardiovascular gets enough from biking and running anyway. I think the vasa is more a strength thing and during these lock down period I will still come out a better triathlete 
so don’t mind having a niche product. I had a total trainer and will say it’s much more worth the price butt the vasa is more fun.
BTW I have no problem getting real sweating when I go hard
Hey Paul, have you ever actually tried a Vasa swim erg? It has different levels of resistance, and from mid to upper limits it is MUCH harder than swimming, kind of like trying to swim into a 4 mph current, only if you stop you won’t drown!
Yes I tried it and did not find I could work as hard as on a rowing erg (rowing erg, I can work at around 15-20W lower than biking in general). I am trying to visualize your full catch up with counter rotation though and can’t.
Vasa is surprisingly low tech. The only electronic parts in it are the 2 displacement coils and the head unit that reads from the coils over the cat5 cables. The coils and the head unit can be replaced for $500. The rest of the contraption is a basically a series of pullies with counterweights, a fan, a bench, a rail, some ropes/rubber cords and some plastic pieces.
Don’t get me wrong, I love mine and I am so happy I bought one for next to nothing 2 years ago, but it is not a product with any kind of appreciable market.
Or this $400 solution
I have a concept2 rowing erg. Its my best machine to get a super workout really quickly. I am trying to tack on 15-30 min daily on top of my runs to keep my upper body conditioned (in addition to legs and core before anyone jumps on me, I am doing things correctly).
I would not get a swimming erg, because it just cannot generate enough cardio load. The wattage you can generate with your arms alone is insanely low relative to a bike or rowing erg. This is why I would get a ski erg because you can send your heart rate through the roof and do the roughly same upper body motion but you get the core in there and legs too. The reason I have not gotten the ski erg is because between real swimming and XC skiing, it has not been worth it given I also have a rowing erg. The rowing erg has a better crossover to biking and running (how it used the core is almost identical to running during the push off phase).
So if you have a choice, I would get the rowing erg over the swim erg. Next I would get the ski erg and compliment with stretch chords.
If you were swim (and not “general fitness”) focused and had limited pool time/access, would you still pick the rower first?
Yes, because my primary sport now is swimming (I am racing 400IM, 200 fly, 200IM, 1500 free, 800 free). My events are all distance events meaning they are aerobically focused, not strength (200IM is the most combo of fast and slow twitch). Performance in these events are primarily determined by cardio. There is going to be no machine that helps me technically for these events better than hitting the water, so between stretch chords and the concept2, its better prep for when I get back in the water. If I had a ski erg, I think it would be better prep than the swim erg becausee the motion is more close to swimming and you can get cardio through the roof.
In normal scenario, I am swimming 7 days per week 20k-30k before all this covid shut down started.
So my 2 cents whether you are a triathlete or a pure swimmer, get the concept2 rowing erg and strech chords. Its just a better fitness machine and stretch chords gets some swimmer specificity for when you return to the pool.
I’m with Dev, I’d get a ski erg before a swim erg. You can make a DIY ski erg out of a bike trainer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P81cRegipUw
An Ercolina machine could do both
https://www.skiroll.it/shop/en/ERCOLINA-UPPER-BODY-POWER
Or a rollerboard.
I have a concept2 rowing erg. Its my best machine to get a super workout really quickly. I am trying to tack on 15-30 min daily on top of my runs to keep my upper body conditioned (in addition to legs and core before anyone jumps on me, I am doing things correctly).
I would not get a swimming erg, because it just cannot generate enough cardio load. The wattage you can generate with your arms alone is insanely low relative to a bike or rowing erg. This is why I would get a ski erg because you can send your heart rate through the roof and do the roughly same upper body motion but you get the core in there and legs too. The reason I have not gotten the ski erg is because between real swimming and XC skiing, it has not been worth it given I also have a rowing erg. The rowing erg has a better crossover to biking and running (how it used the core is almost identical to running during the push off phase).
So if you have a choice, I would get the rowing erg over the swim erg. Next I would get the ski erg and compliment with stretch chords.
If you were swim (and not “general fitness”) focused and had limited pool time/access, would you still pick the rower first?
Yes, because my primary sport now is swimming (I am racing 400IM, 200 fly, 200IM, 1500 free, 800 free). My events are all distance events meaning they are aerobically focused, not strength (200IM is the most combo of fast and slow twitch). Performance in these events are primarily determined by cardio. There is going to be no machine that helps me technically for these events better than hitting the water, so between stretch chords and the concept2, its better prep for when I get back in the water. If I had a ski erg, I think it would be better prep than the swim erg becausee the motion is more close to swimming and you can get cardio through the roof.
In normal scenario, I am swimming 7 days per week 20k-30k before all this covid shut down started.
So my 2 cents whether you are a triathlete or a pure swimmer, get the concept2 rowing erg and strech chords. Its just a better fitness machine and stretch chords gets some swimmer specificity for when you return to the pool.
I’m with Dev, I’d get a ski erg before a swim erg. You can make a DIY ski erg out of a bike trainer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P81cRegipUw
An Ercolina machine could do both
https://www.skiroll.it/...INA-UPPER-BODY-POWER
Or a rollerboard.
So I put my old computrainer on a wall above my head, and one side put a handle, the other side put a weight, connect with a chain over a wheel ? Then just do butterfly stroke pull?
https://photos.app.goo.gl/s8RAtJRT5YEsnXKQ6
As the pictures, hopefully, show, I have a drywall bucket with weight as an anchor. Bungee cord connected from the handle of the bucket to the chain. Then some baler twine to connect to my handle setup. I have a little problem with chain skip, I’m using an ancient 5 speed mtb wheel. It’s a wind trainer, so I like to be able to use different gears for resistance. I use it a fair amount in the winter. 30-45 minutes and then an XC ski focused strength session makes for a good workout.
Holy Shit! This is something you’d see in a SAW movie.
Holy Shit! This is something you’d see in a SAW movie.
Never thought of that, perhaps I can hook up a chain from a chain saw and cut firewood!
I have finally found the ultimate “poor man vasa” (at least for us Euros), as cheap as ~150$
Isn’t this just a knockoff of the Total Gym?
What is the right price (of a swim erg) for you?
500$ for a “smart” one (with electronics, computer, connectivity etc.) and 250$ for a “dumb” one (no electronics); that is 20% more expensive than average rowers (you get a smart one for 400$ or even less), but yet reasonable
Honestly you can make a dumb swim ERG for about $15.
The only thing you don’t have at your house already are swim bands.
Something to think about:
With a VASA the tension is the same throughout the pull. Which seems like a good thing. But I am not so sure. With bands the tension increases through out the stroke (because the band is lengthening). It seems to me that the sweep is the most powerful part of the stroke because the lever angle is the best. This is exactly when the tension is highest if you are on a stable bench doing pull.
Nordic Track ski machines are pretty cheap on Craigslist. I’ve even seen them at Goodwill and garage sales, usually $20-$50 or so. They make a great dry-land swim alternative. I may have even built some extra strength, as the cable tension has infinite resistance, and I can make it harder than swimming. Please never mind my stroke form… I was finished with my workout, and very tired.
Here’s a short video I made of this.
I already have some nice stretch cords, actually. Possibly now I should get a body building bench to lie down on and make them more swim-like. Using cords with different resistance would also make sense (now I’m using the “strong” ones)
youtube says video is private
.
youtube says video is private
Should work now. Thanks! Old man still trying to figure out how to do videos…
youtube says video is private
Should work now. Thanks! Old man still trying to figure out how to do videos…
Yeah! Thanks for the video Dean
Do you really think that performance in distance events is all cardio? And you have a swim coach who is/was swimming you 7 days a week?
Tim
Do you really think that performance in distance events is all cardio? And you have a swim coach who is/was swimming you 7 days a week?
Tim
You’re a coach…what type of a question is this regardless of sport? Of course distance events are only a very small part fast twitch once you get past 20 seconds in ANY sport so its all mainly slow twitch utilization, but that obviously does not preclude the high end and getting into using some fast twitch. I’m not talking about technique in this context though. Your statement comes across borderline snarky or maybe a put down of another coach, I assume you were alluding to the technical part being important (obviously) and that was not the focus of my statement. Without knowing who my swim coach is where he got me to in 4 strokes starting from nothing in my 50’s, I suggest you just stick to talking about your coaching and don’t imply anything about others.
So I put my old computrainer on a wall above my head, and one side put a handle, the other side put a weight, connect with a chain over a wheel ? Then just do butterfly stroke pull?
I did basically this earlier in the year for a while.
Handle (from some PVC pipe), 6mm rope, over a swivelling pulley, then down to a light dumbbell weight. One for each arm.
Seemed to work OK. A bit too much force at the catch though (due to no momentum/flywheel). Can do whatever stroke you want, but I found a wide butterfly stroke most effective. The dumbbells can swing a bit wildly, simultaneous arm swings stopped them tangling.
The bike trainer thing seems neater if you can get the stroke length and resistance sorted.