Maybe this is opening up a can of worms, but why do we see some pros (UCI cycling) make questionable equipment choices. Maybe this question should be extended to teams rather than specifically to the pros. Why don’t all the pros go all our aero when racing stage races? Bikes like the S5, Madone and Aeroad can all be built to the 6.8kg UCI limit. I can understand for a cobbled classic race, some pros might want a frame that has some more compliance designed into it or that could fit larger tires in it.
But for TdF with glass roads, why not go aero? Even if sheltered in the peloton by your team and other riders, still plenty of energy that could be saved that would add up over the 3 week race. If there was an opportunity to attack for the stage win or to gain time, there would be a added benefit as well. Am I missing something? Aero frames have come a long way in terms of weight (900g frames), comfort, handling, stiffness and other factors that people use to use as arguments against aero frames.
In the last Tour de France, Cavendish rode the mega-aero Venge ViAS on the flat stages, but the Tarmac on the climbs. According to this article, his 52 cm Dura-Ace specced ViAS was 7.59 kg/16.73 lbs, which is a good bit above the UCI limit, and I read elsewhere people speculating that Cavendish didn’t like the ViAS’ brakes on the descents. So that’s one situation where a pro opted to not go full-aero.
It’s actually because the advantages of aero frames are lost in a peloton. Unless you’re a sprinter or breakaway specialist comfort is far more important. Even then the frame has so little effect on overall rider CdA that if it weren’t for sponsors trying to make a buck they’d be a rarity.
If you look at the wheels, most Pros ride aero wheel sets in fast flat ore even hilly stages. Many road bikes called aero are marketing made and the real ones are in use … oSo >>
Its because they ride 35000 miles per season and average ftps of 450 watts and dont buy in to all of the marketing crap the 2500 mile per year triathletes buy into. Also the group riding aspect plays a huge part. Triathletes are ridiculed by all other endurance sports participants for being tech weenies. Recently I heard a bunch of former olympic nordic skiers making dfun of triathletes for being so overly focused on equipment.
Typically those that ridicule triathletes are those who don’t have the talent to do well in three disciplines, so they try to find something to bring us down.
In the last Tour de France, Cavendish rode the mega-aero Venge ViAS on the flat stages, but the Tarmac on the climbs. According to this article, his 52 cm Dura-Ace specced ViAS was 7.59 kg/16.73 lbs, which is a good bit above the UCI limit, and I read elsewhere people speculating that Cavendish didn’t like the ViAS’ brakes on the descents. So that’s one situation where a pro opted to not go full-aero.
And if I remember correctly, Cancellara beat him on his Venge, in a sprint, while riding a Domane.
It’s because outside of slowtwitch, hell even inside of slowtwitch, very few know a lot about what is really aerodynamic and matters vs what claims to be aerodynamic vs what is aerodynamic but doesn’t really matter.
As for pro triathletes, we’ve tested ~ 10-12 or so, about 20% were set up in a pretty good position/had a reasonable CdA to start. For age groupers I’d put the number at 30%. But most people who think they’ve gotten themselves aero still left a lot of low hanging fruit on the tree, pro or non pro.
Its because they ride 35000 miles per season and average ftps of 450 watts and dont buy in to all of the marketing crap the 2500 mile per year triathletes buy into. Also the group riding aspect plays a huge part. Triathletes are ridiculed by all other endurance sports participants for being tech weenies. Recently I heard a bunch of former olympic nordic skiers making dfun of triathletes for being so overly focused on equipment.
Ask them if they use any old wax on their skis…and get ready for some weeniedom.
Aero road helmets have really taken over the last couple of years. They’re ubiquitous now.
Frames are really the only holdout left. If aero frames provide any generally significant advantage, eventually some team will exploit it and things will change. That hasn’t really happened yet. Though aero frames have won very races, there hasn’t been a signature moment for aero frames in ProTour racing. (excepting TT of course). And there have been attempts to exploit it…e.g. the bulk of teams on S3/S5/AR/Aeroad/Venge. But you those attempts haven’t had an obvious payoff to date. The payoff may be there, but just be so marginal that it’s impossible to distinguish from the myriad factors that go into road racing performance…it may just be way down the list with things like having taken a good dump before heading to the line.
Triathletes are ridiculed by all other endurance sports participants for being tech weenies. Recently I heard a bunch of former olympic nordic skiers making dfun of triathletes for being so overly focused on equipment.
They are very entitled to have a good laugh at our expense. I’m a tech weenie and I laugh at myself sometimes! We should never take ourselves too seriously or get too worried about what others think.
Personally, tri is a hobby, and I find the tech stuff fun and interesting, so it’s just another aspect of my hobby. I also enjoy putting up fast bike splits despite being a geezer with a modest FTP, it’s really quite fun to have people think I’m a much stronger rider than I really am.
I also laugh at people that spend tons of money on aero equipment and then have parachute positions, or replace their bolts with titanium and then carry 3 waterbottles on a hilly sprint tri. All in good fun, yes I’m a dork and proud of it!
Triathletes are ridiculed by all other endurance sports participants for being tech weenies. Recently I heard a bunch of former olympic nordic skiers making dfun of triathletes for being so overly focused on equipment.
They are very entitled to have a good laugh at our expense. I’m a tech weenie and I laugh at myself sometimes! We should never take ourselves too seriously or get too worried about what others think.
Personally, tri is a hobby, and I find the tech stuff fun and interesting, so it’s just another aspect of my hobby.** I also enjoy putting up fast bike splits despite being a geezer with a modest FTP, it’s really quite fun to have people think I’m a much stronger rider than I really am**.
I also laugh at people that spend tons of money on aero equipment and then have parachute positions, or replace their bolts with titanium and then carry 3 waterbottles on a hilly sprint tri. All in good fun, yes I’m a dork and proud of it!
Same here…although my feeble power output is typically betrayed when the road tilts up :-/
It’s actually because the advantages of aero frames are lost in a peloton. Unless you’re a sprinter or breakaway specialist comfort is far more important. Even then the frame has so little effect on overall rider CdA that if it weren’t for sponsors trying to make a buck they’d be a rarity.
This is incorrect. Unless you are riding through a vacuum where you are pushing zero air, the benefits of the aero frame are there if you the first guy in the group or the 100th, they are just less, but they are there, and they are non zero. Over a long day of racing they add up to a certain number of joules saved. At the pointy end, saving joules is saving joules however you cut it meaning more left at the end of the stage. Its basically stupid to not save them but you can’t help stupid. Also as much as some might mock age groupers making commentary on ST, many of these age groupers are leagues ahead in IQ over many pro athletes. I’ll put credibility based on what comes out of someones brain, not which parents they chose to inherit a better FTP.
It’s actually because the advantages of aero frames are lost in a peloton. Unless you’re a sprinter or breakaway specialist comfort is far more important. Even then the frame has so little effect on overall rider CdA that if it weren’t for sponsors trying to make a buck they’d be a rarity.
This is incorrect. Unless you are riding through a vacuum where you are pushing zero air, the benefits of the aero frame are there if you the first guy in the group or the 100th, they are just less, but they are there, and they are non zero. Over a long day of racing they add up to a certain number of joules saved. At the pointy end, saving joules is saving joules however you cut it meaning more left at the end of the stage. Its basically stupid to not save them but you can’t help stupid. Also as much as some might mock age groupers making commentary on ST, many of these age groupers are leagues ahead in IQ over many pro athletes. I’ll put credibility based on what comes out of someones brain, not which parents they chose to inherit a better FTP.
Oh you say that I’m wrong and it’s silly not save joules if possible, but that’s exactly what’s happening. Blame the athlete all you want, but that’s exactly what is happening. Teams simply wouldn’t give the choice to their riders were it that big of a deal. Think of how many pros (including GC riders) have terrible TT positions. Same reason as they don’t spend a lot of time on areas that aren’t their focus.
If you look at the Watts they are doing in the peloton, a guy like LTD who puts power data up is cruising in recovery zone for 50% of stage, so it’s not that big a deal. Until they hit the big mountains it’s a sunday cruise for the guys who aren’t the donkeys at the front pushing the pace or in a breakaway.
If you look at the Watts they are doing in the peloton, a guy like LTD who puts power data up is cruising in recovery zone for 50% of stage, so it’s not that big a deal. Until they hit the big mountains it’s a sunday cruise for the guys who aren’t the donkeys at the front pushing the pace or in a breakaway.
Right, it’s the climbs that are selective. So weight trumpd aero for many of the most selective segments.
Aero would trump for sprinters/leadouts, and breakaway artists.
I don’t understand, though, why, say, Tony Martin, who clearly sometimes plans long breaks and understands aero, doesn’t use an aero frame on some of his breaks.
Here he’s clearly in TT mode. Could maybe save 5-10W with aero frame and bars.
