Clearly, we know many US churches and their members highly favor the monster that is the top republican.
But cases like this seem to never end. And the churches quite actively protect the monster:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/jan/25/new-orleans-archbishop-priest-sexual-abuse-allegations
Why does this happen? Not once, but constantly?
Windy will be along soon to say that people who sexually abuse kids should be executed.
Because they don’t want to shine a light on their one or two “bad apples.â€
.
Clearly, we know many US churches and their members highly favor the monster that is the top republican.
But cases like this seem to never end. And the churches quite actively protect the monster:
https://www.theguardian.com/...al-abuse-allegations
Why does this happen? Not once, but constantly?
Tribalism, writ large.
A remnant of one of the fundamental attributes that allowed our ancestors to persist. Like so many things, it can be a benefit or a detriment depending on the situation.
I have a different theory on this that does not involve everyone being evil. And we see this kind of behavior in many settings where there are really good people that appear to shelter people they should abhor.
The vast majority of priests and other clergy are really good people. The vast majority of people working in the Boy Scouts are really good people. The vast majority of people involved in kids sports are good people. Joe Paterno did not appear to be an evil man at all. The administrations of many colleges do not seem to all be evil. Etc. etc. And the abusers don’t run around with long rain coats making themselves obvious.
I have seen this happen with people I know.
We have really good people who seem to be in league with sexual abusers and giving them cover. I find it really difficult to believe they are all evil at their core or just trying to protect their brand. Because when the abuse comes out it is pretty devastating to the brand. So why the disconnect?
We also see a related behavior with people dealing with malignant narcissists. It is really hard for good people to understand that people they know and many times like are just plain bad people and doing horrendous things. If I start with the idea that Bob is a good guy that I like and I have spent a lot of time around, it is hard to believe when someone comes along and says, “Bob has been molesting me”. Bob tells me, “I would never do that.” And he sure does sound sincere. And then people gravitate towards thinking the abused is confused or making it up.
So we don’t believe the abused. And to try to make the situation go away, because no one wants to have to confront this head on, we ask Bob to maybe switch leagues/Boy Scout troops/churches/etc. thinking this will make everyone more comfortable. And of course Bob goes and ingratiates himself to the new people and the cycle starts again.
I think it comes from a blind spot created when people know the abuser, like the abuser before this comes out, and the abuser not presenting as a monster in public.
That doesn’t mean the organizations get a pass. Certainly not now that we have seen this pattern over and over. But maybe the enablers are not bad people, just people that didn’t do the right thing.
I gotta say, the church, the pedophile, and church leadership are impressively devious in evading the consequences of this predation (video below). Lots of help, of course, for the predator, but zero help for the many, many, many victims. And this monster started his abuse in the 70s or 80s, so he has created a long list of tortured souls.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2djV4Ri2ok
https://youtu.be/h2djV4Ri2ok?feature=shared
Hell, it’s a great retirement plan: work for the church, assault innocent kids, then have a fabulous retirement funded by the catholic church!
An abusing priest can’t abuse children if he is in jail. I don’t understand why the parents didn’t call the police and only asked the church to do something about it. If I found out that someone had abused my child in church, the church would only find out about it when he was led out in handcuffs. And that only assumes that I would have been able to control my anger before the cops got there.
I think back to what George W Bush said after 9/11. “We will make no distinction between the terrorists who committed these acts and those who harbor them”
The Catholic church harbored, aided and abetted these abusers.
I have a different theory on this that does not involve everyone being evil. And we see this kind of behavior in many settings where there are really good people that appear to shelter people they should abhor.
The vast majority of priests and other clergy are really good people. The vast majority of people working in the Boy Scouts are really good people. The vast majority of people involved in kids sports are good people. Joe Paterno did not appear to be an evil man at all. The administrations of many colleges do not seem to all be evil. Etc. etc. And the abusers don’t run around with long rain coats making themselves obvious.
I have seen this happen with people I know.
We have really good people who seem to be in league with sexual abusers and giving them cover. I find it really difficult to believe they are all evil at their core or just trying to protect their brand. Because when the abuse comes out it is pretty devastating to the brand. So why the disconnect?
We also see a related behavior with people dealing with malignant narcissists. It is really hard for good people to understand that people they know and many times like are just plain bad people and doing horrendous things. If I start with the idea that Bob is a good guy that I like and I have spent a lot of time around, it is hard to believe when someone comes along and says, “Bob has been molesting me”. Bob tells me, “I would never do that.” And he sure does sound sincere. And then people gravitate towards thinking the abused is confused or making it up.
So we don’t believe the abused. And to try to make the situation go away, because no one wants to have to confront this head on, we ask Bob to maybe switch leagues/Boy Scout troops/churches/etc. thinking this will make everyone more comfortable. And of course Bob goes and ingratiates himself to the new people and the cycle starts again.
I think it comes from a blind spot created when people know the abuser, like the abuser before this comes out, and the abuser not presenting as a monster in public.
That doesn’t mean the organizations get a pass. Certainly not now that we have seen this pattern over and over. But maybe the enablers are not bad people, just people that didn’t do the right thing.
Your reply is thoughtful. And I kind of agree that the predators are not necessarily “evil”, they are just profoundly mentally ill.
I have a much more difficult time agreeing with you about the non mentally ill people high up (and not high up) in organizations (catholic church, boy scouts of america, mormon church, etc.) those who enable and protect predators, and do it again and again and again. That seems plainly evil.
I think back to what George W Bush said after 9/11. “We will make no distinction between the terrorists who committed these acts and those who harbor them”
The Catholic church harbored, aided and abetted these abusers.
Yes, this.
Not just the catholics. The boy scouts have become famous for this too.
I have a much more difficult time agreeing with you about the non mentally ill people high up (and not high up) in organizations (catholic church, boy scouts of america, mormon church, etc.) those who enable and protect predators, and do it again and again and again. That seems plainly evil.
I’m not saying everyone is good and there isn’t someone cold and calculating doing it. But these organizations are made up of people. And peole make bad decisions.
We see the same sort of behavior within families. Dad is molesting the kids, they tell mom. Mom doesn’t want to believe it because that means she absolutely has to divorce dad and go to the police. It is much easier for mom to convince herself it was all a big misunderstanding and that it couldn’t possibly have gone down like that… Or, in a situation we see with a lot of these organizations, it comes out years later. And then we jump on the victim and want to know why the little kid waited so long. And the other kids like dad, he never abused them. Why would he abuse that one?
Evil people get by with a lot because good people have a difficult time understanding that some people just don’t have any redeeming qualities.
I think it’s strange when institutions (colleges and churches) seem to tell people that the institution is investigating a rape and that going to the police is unnecessary or inappropriate.
I understand going to the police might be another layer of trauma because it is likely that nothing will come of the victim’s efforts. I don’t know. If victims expect better law enforcement or protection against rapists from the church or a college than police, then we are massively disordered. Churches and schools are not in the business of law enforcement. Law enforcement is. When a person needs help, they need qualified help. Demand qualified law enforcement from the people we pay to enforce laws.
I have a different theory on this that does not involve everyone being evil. And we see this kind of behavior in many settings where there are really good people that appear to shelter people they should abhor.
The vast majority of priests and other clergy are really good people. The vast majority of people working in the Boy Scouts are really good people. The vast majority of people involved in kids sports are good people. Joe Paterno did not appear to be an evil man at all. The administrations of many colleges do not seem to all be evil. Etc. etc. And the abusers don’t run around with long rain coats making themselves obvious.
I have seen this happen with people I know.
We have really good people who seem to be in league with sexual abusers and giving them cover. I find it really difficult to believe they are all evil at their core or just trying to protect their brand. Because when the abuse comes out it is pretty devastating to the brand. So why the disconnect?
We also see a related behavior with people dealing with malignant narcissists. It is really hard for good people to understand that people they know and many times like are just plain bad people and doing horrendous things. If I start with the idea that Bob is a good guy that I like and I have spent a lot of time around, it is hard to believe when someone comes along and says, “Bob has been molesting me”. Bob tells me, “I would never do that.” And he sure does sound sincere. And then people gravitate towards thinking the abused is confused or making it up.
So we don’t believe the abused. And to try to make the situation go away, because no one wants to have to confront this head on, we ask Bob to maybe switch leagues/Boy Scout troops/churches/etc. thinking this will make everyone more comfortable. And of course Bob goes and ingratiates himself to the new people and the cycle starts again.
I think it comes from a blind spot created when people know the abuser, like the abuser before this comes out, and the abuser not presenting as a monster in public.
That doesn’t mean the organizations get a pass. Certainly not now that we have seen this pattern over and over. But maybe the enablers are not bad people, just people that didn’t do the right thing.
I’m currently reading, Talking to Strangers by Malcolm Gladwell. It makes the exact point you are talking about. We default to trusting people and the longer we are around them, the more the belief gets cemented. You can ignore an awful lot once you trust someone.
Sexual abusers manipulate their victims at the same time they manipulate the parents of victims. It happens simultaneously.
Say an abuser wants to have time alone with kids. The abuser has to manipulate the kid to get the kid to accept that it’s normal for the adult to have the time alone with the kid. The abuser has to manipulate the parent to get the parent to think it’s normal.
There are multiple victims related to the sexual abuse of one kid.
I
We have otherwise really good people who seem to be in league with sexual abusers and giving them cover. I
Thoughtful take on it, but I’m throwing the “otherwise” all up in there, because while I’m willing to accept that “JoPa” is not an evil man, the “blind spot” (quite a charitable quasi-euphemism) disqualifies him from a blanket “really good person.” I was a coach for a long time, and I just can’t imagine someone coming into my office with a claim of sex abuse against one of my coaches, and me doing nothing. Just can’t fathom it. The closest I came was hearing a 20 year-old assistant coach had gone to a house party with a few 17-18 y.o. athletes. Good buddy of mine. He was fired on the spot.
I tend to think it’s more about protecting institutional reputation than inter-personal blind spots. Try to take care of it in-house. Because in the instance above where someone comes into my office - when I make it public, there’s a real good chance I’m going down as well. My name would be forever attached to the incident, and I’d never be hired again. Because it all happened on my watch. Parents would come after me hard - and they’d be right to.
I
We have otherwise really good people who seem to be in league with sexual abusers and giving them cover. I
Thoughtful take on it, but I’m throwing the “otherwise” all up in there, because while I’m willing to accept that “JoPa” is not an evil man, the “blind spot” (quite a charitable quasi-euphemism) disqualifies him from a blanket “really good person.” I was a coach for a long time, and I just can’t imagine someone coming into my office with a claim of sex abuse against one of my coaches, and me doing nothing. Just can’t fathom it. The closest I came was hearing a 20 year-old assistant coach had gone to a house party with a few 17-18 y.o. athletes. Good buddy of mine. He was fired on the spot.
I tend to think it’s more about protecting institutional reputation than inter-personal blind spots. Try to take care of it in-house. Because in the instance above where someone comes into my office - when I make it public, there’s a real good chance I’m going down as well. My name would be forever attached to the incident, and I’d never be hired again. Because it all happened on my watch. Parents would come after me hard - and they’d be right to.
I don’t disagree with anything you are saying. Just adding to it.
I am right now thinking about judges who protect rapists from prison because they’d hate to ruin that young man’s life over a “mistake”.
I don’t get that mindset. But it really does seem to be around a lot. And we apply it a lot of different ways. Don’t want to tarnish their reputation, get them fired, etc. Rarely do we hear in depth talk about the impact on the girl raped in the alley or the little kids that were serially abused.
It is an odd gap in our collective perspectives.
Clearly, we know many US churches and their members highly favor the monster that is the top republican.
But cases like this seem to never end. And the churches quite actively protect the monster:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/jan/25/new-orleans-archbishop-priest-sexual-abuse-allegations
Why does this happen? Not once, but constantly?
Money and power.
Clearly, we know many US churches and their members highly favor the monster that is the top republican.
But cases like this seem to never end. And the churches quite actively protect the monster:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/jan/25/new-orleans-archbishop-priest-sexual-abuse-allegations
Why does this happen? Not once, but constantly?
Money and power.
This. At the end of the day, it’s the congregation who support the church who are the enablers. Or atleast funding and enabling the enablers. If church attendance dropped by 70% and donations quickly dried up, dramatic changes would be made. Take away the money, dilute the power, and the problem can be dealt with. Until then, onward we go.
Clearly, we know many US churches and their members highly favor the monster that is the top republican.
But cases like this seem to never end. And the churches quite actively protect the monster:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/jan/25/new-orleans-archbishop-priest-sexual-abuse-allegations
Why does this happen? Not once, but constantly?
Money and power.
Sure, on one level, this makes sense.
But the church and other organizational coddlers and protectors of serial child predators, they don’t often have sprawling multi million dollar mansions, big cocaine habits, private helicopters, or fleets of lambos and ferraris (well, as far as l know). So, l think there must be something else going on.
I have a much more difficult time agreeing with you about the non mentally ill people high up (and not high up) in organizations (catholic church, boy scouts of america, mormon church, etc.) those who enable and protect predators, and do it again and again and again. That seems plainly evil.
I’m not saying everyone is good and there isn’t someone cold and calculating doing it. But these organizations are made up of people. And peole make bad decisions.
We see the same sort of behavior within families. Dad is molesting the kids, they tell mom. Mom doesn’t want to believe it because that means she absolutely has to divorce dad and go to the police. It is much easier for mom to convince herself it was all a big misunderstanding and that it couldn’t possibly have gone down like that… Or, in a situation we see with a lot of these organizations, it comes out years later. And then we jump on the victim and want to know why the little kid waited so long. And the other kids like dad, he never abused them. Why would he abuse that one?
Evil people get by with a lot because good people have a difficult time understanding that some people just don’t have any redeeming qualities.
I see where you are coming from, however, I can’t classify this scenario as bad decisions. This is bad decisions on crack. Over and over and over.
Stop protecting. Start Prosecuting. Plain and simple.