Been lurking here for a while and decided to actually post something which has been bugging me for a while.
Question: Why am I so slow?
I am young, reasonably fit, have 10% bodyfat, 50% muscle, over 50 V02 Max (Which isn’t super athlete stuff - but puts me in a reasonably high category compared to peers in my age group).
Background:
I am 34 - been training and doing triathlon only for about 2 years now - started with sprint distance, recently completed a long course triathlon (round about HIM distance) and signed up to do a full IM in a few months.
I have run one marathon earlier this year in 4:40. Currently I am running a pathetic 8km/hr pace at 145 BPM heart rate (longer distances). I have completed one 12km run in under an hour - but my HR was 175+ for most of that race.
I don’t know much about watts on the bike but basically I produce around 125W at 135 BPM heart rate - which is also pathetic for my age group.
I swim slowly as well - around 2.4km /hr and cant seem to go much faster than that - I’m putting the swim down mainly to poor form however (imagine a jellybean trying to swim), so lets ignore that for now.
I’m consistently in the bottom 10% of my age group in races and while I am improving slowly I am a bit miffed that I can’t seem to perform better than I am currently. I guess about the only thing I can think of is that I just need to keep training and I will slowly (very slowly) improve and get faster as time wears on.
Sorry about the lengthy post but this issue is weighing on my mind and frankly getting the better of me mentally at the moment - I know I can be faster but the body / heart doesn’t seem to agree. Perhaps some on here might assist with:
a) possible reasons for slowness
b) training ideas to significantly improve power output performance
TL:DR - Age grouper has sub-optimal power outputs for given heart rates - wants to improve.
I am young, reasonably fit, have 10% bodyfat, 50% muscle…
What is the other 40% of you?
a) possible reasons for slowness
b) training ideas to significantly improve power output performance
Tough to really understand your body composition from the above or your body type.
We also have no idea what your training regimen has been like for the last two years.
You are young and inexperienced and slow enough that almost anything should make you faster.
Probably your biggest issue is consistency.
Maybe some info on your training and goals would help out… How many yards/miles/hours per week are you putting in and what distance/race time are you expecting?
Training volume?
I suspect you’re on the low side. Without years of volume, it’s not gonna happen
How did you measure you VO2 max? Hard to believe you’re a tested 50 if you’re bottom 10% in all races.
Your marathon time actually reflects less on your speed/slowness than lack of training. A 4:40, while a respectable nonracer time, shows that you really just haven’t put in enough run volume to actually run most of the race at speed. Nothing wrong with that - just pointing out that it’s not a true measure of your ability to go fast (or slow) since anyone on lower training volume will dramatically underperform at that distance.
Body Composition:
Height 167cm
Weight: 64kg
Dominant Mesomorphy
(The other 40% is bones, organs etc)
VO2 Max testing was performed by a professional sports physiologist - direct measurement maximal test on wattbike with gas and blood sampling.
How many hours of training are you getting per week?
Currently around 10hrs - 1-2 Swim, 3-4 run, 4-5 bike.
I am doing my best to increase these.
How frequently and how much distance do you swim per week?
about 3-4km a week swimming - 2 sessions
How many miles of Biking and Running are you doing per week?
At the moment I am alternating long ride with long run weeks - but trying to get in about 150-180km on the bike and 30km on the run.
Do you have a background in any of the sports?
I have basically been non athletic/not fit from age 15 - age 32 - although never really overweight.
What are your SBR splits in an olympic, 70.3 or IM?
SBR Olympic ~ March 2013 - S:37min B:1hr29min R: 57min
Recent Long Course (Nov 2013) (2km/80km/20km) - S:43min B:3hrs R: 2hrs (I averaged 160-165bpm HR for the entire race)
I am young, reasonably fit, have 10% bodyfat, 50% muscle…
What is the other 40% of you?
Must be one of those big boned people I always get told about. It’s a huge problem apparently. Seriously though it doesn’t make sense even if body water content was a separate category, less than 40% TBW would be badly dehydrated to the point of death I would think.
To the OP, are you restricting yourself in races based on HR? If you can run for an hour at 175bpm (let’s call that an approximation of your lactate threshold heart rate) then 145bpm for longer distances only equates to about 83% of LTHR, still well in zone 1.
The other question is, do you have balls? Not in the physical sense but do you have the ability to push yourself and suffer? Lots of people in your situation just never push themselves hard enough consistently enough to improve significantly. They spend a lot of time running/riding/swimming easy because it feels good and are afraid to hurt themselves. Good training does not always feel good (by the same token it should not consist of endless suffering either.)
Don’t fret though - doesn’t mean you can’t do really well with more experience.
Just keep at it, try and up your volume on a training plan if possible, train year-round, and you’ll be minimum 50% of the field sooner rather than later, especially with a tested VO2 50.
When discussing your training “volume”, time alone does not give the full picture. Training volume is a function of both time and intensity.
You will get much more useful answers if you go through a typical week and describe the actual workouts you did in terms of time and intensity so people can see what you are actually doing.
seems to me like you are too muscular.
stay the heck away from any weights.
cut down your protein intake to only 10-15% of your total calorie intake.
lose 5kg
I am young, reasonably fit, have 10% bodyfat, 50% muscle…
What is the other 40% of you?
Must be one of those big boned people I always get told about. It’s a huge problem apparently. Seriously though it doesn’t make sense even if body water content was a separate category, less than 40% TBW would be badly dehydrated to the point of death I would think.
To the OP, are you restricting yourself in races based on HR? If you can run for an hour at 175bpm (let’s call that an approximation of your lactate threshold heart rate) then 145bpm for longer distances only equates to about 83% of LTHR, still well in zone 1.
The other question is, do you have balls? Not in the physical sense but do you have the ability to push yourself and suffer? Lots of people in your situation just never push themselves hard enough consistently enough to improve significantly. They spend a lot of time running/riding/swimming easy because it feels good and are afraid to hurt themselves. Good training does not always feel good (by the same token it should not consist of endless suffering either.)
Bone Mass is 17% and “Residual Mass” is 23%. I had this done professionally so I’m fairly confident in the results.
As far as pushing myself and “Suffering” I’ll point to the long course triathlon recently completed at average HR of 165 - apparently my LTHR is around 160 (according to testing previously mentioned) an my ability to sustain exercise above that probably speaks a little to my ability to “push”. If anything my training to this point has been too heavy on training in 160ish HR zone (I thought IU was doing the right thing and wanted to get faster). Its only in the last few months that I have started to slow down and do long sessions at the lower HR zones 135-145.
I also agree with everyone’s comments re: Training volume - I know this is a deficiency and am working on improving this.
What’s you actual height and weight (sorry if I missed that somewhere). You must be a rock
I’m confused how your LTHR is 160 but you can run a 12k at 175 bpm+. If this is somehow true (I doubt it is) then I’d agree you obviously race without pushing yourself hard enough
I will also add - I think you might actually be served dealing with LESS data rather than more at your stage of training and ability. While I LOVE data (I have everything - powermeter, Trainerroad, Garmin 910xt, swim lap watch, even a Vasa friggin’ powermeter), it’s not the answer to everything, especially if you’re early in your training career where you should be focused more on actually DOING the volume of training rather than fretting about all the numbers and metrics.
I say this not to demean your attention to detail - it’s just that you have an awful lot of objective data about your metrics, even from a lab (?!?), yet in most of your posts you gloss over your training volume as well as the general philosophy/structure to the training, which should be your absolute main focus as a beginner. If there’s one thing you need to obsess over, its exactly that - your training volume as well as the general structure of it (base/build/taper and how you integrate intensity into it.)
All this stuff about LTHR, power, weight, etc., is really meaningless unless you have the above two things in order and emphasized first.
I honestly believe you’d be better served ignoring all the lab tests and field tests to this level, and just focus on getting yourself on a progressive training program of some sort, even if it means training only by RPE. Heck, I suspect you would actually do better if you trained by RPE since you sound like you’re one of those who loves the numbers so much that you miss the forest from the trees. You don’t have to go throw all your numbers away, but I’d suggest de-emphasizing them, and instead focusing on your overall long-term training plan and how you feel when you crank up the intensity on the plan.
My best friend used to wake up from his nap during second half of a soccer game, show up at the field, score 2 goals, and then go back to bed before the game is even over.
My best friend used to wake up from his nap during second half of a soccer game, show up at the field, score 2 goals, and then go back to bed before the game is even over.
+1…
I did enough bad stuff to my body over a 15 year period that I’m lucky to be here… Yet as after a year back training I was running around a 1:33-1:35 half marathon and in my second year of triathlon a 4:55 70.3 on a hilly course weighing between 190-195lbs. I’m no where near 10% body fat either (closer to 14-15% would be a safe guess). This was after dropping almost 40lbs in the first year. If I can get my weight a little more optimized (180lbs range at 6’3") I think I’ve got at least another 15-20 minutes in me on the 70.3 and right around a 10 hour IM.
My guess is that either your data is off and you aren’t pushing yourself enough or you aren’t training enough (volume/intensity).
I to have the same problem, but only in the running
In à race with 500 in My age group Im in the first 20 up from the water and the bike, but in the running Im around the last 100.
And Im focus is on the running when I do My training session. Looked at My cadens and its wery slow, 170 spm. So trying to improve That now!
Do you have a background in any of the sports?
I have basically been non athletic/not fit from age 15 - age 32 - although never really overweight.
…
(I averaged 160-165bpm HR for the entire race)
This is the one that stands out to me.
Keep at it; you should see consistent and constant progress for the next 8-10 years.
I will attempt to address some of the responses above - the ones that stand out to me / ring true.
“Sub-3-dad” said "Keep at it; you should see consistent and constant progress for the next 8-10 years. "
In a few ways I guess this is the response I hoped to see here - the knowledge that if I keep at it I can improve over time - people with similar experiences would be welcome to post their stories. If this is the bottom line I can accept this. (Although posts such as **PeteDin206 **indicate that someone can just wake up after 15 years of inactivity and start performing ok - knowiong myself I kind of expected this to be more my story than the one I am currently experiencing).
Again I agree with the various posters saying that I am not posting detailed information on my training intensity and duration - you have certainly revealed a weak point of mine there - but I am a little unconvinced that it is the cause of my comparative slowness - I have engaged in coached swim / bike / run sessions with my local triathlon club - and these sessions have improved my technique and my times have gotten better - but only marginally by small percentages.
For those saying I am not trying hard enough - consider the long slow distance type training I have been referencing - I am unsure how I can “try harder” at a given Heart rate - if I am scheduled to run 3 hrs at 135 HR my issue is I am incredibly slow (glacial) at that heart rate and I don’t know why.
As for the genetic argument - I guess I can resign myself to the fact that I am just always gonna be slow, but I don’t want to give in to that type of thinking and additionally I feel like I should be able to go faster and the “numbers” indicate I have some potential to go faster.
Now as far as the numbers go (as an addendum to the genetic argument if you like) - most of the numbers point towards a predisposition towards much better performance than I am currently experiencing / capable of. One poster indicated that I may be too focused on the numbers - I guess I have chased the numbers as a result of my slowness, in part to find out why I am consistently bottom 10% or so in my age group.
Thanks again for all your responses and have a great Christmas all.