Whiteface+Epicman Lake Placid June 10/11 info/Q&A thread

Triathlon Forum
21

Along the lines of Burnman’s comments…

“Saturday (June 12) - 2 loops of tri course (est 6 hours). Short break, then 1 loop of run course (easy pace - 9:00 - 10:00 min/mile)”

so basically you plan to do the entire bike ride, take a break and run for 2 hours. My money is on the short break turning very very very long, or the 1 loop run not happening at all unless you have some seriously insane mental fortitude…finally the Whiteface in the morning OR swim…well, we can pretty well assure you that after doing the 2 loop ride on Saturday and doing the “break” (be it long or short) and perhaps a run (or not), you’ll have no desire to do Whiteface on Sunday morning.

I’d just recommend that you do Whiteface on Friday when you arrive on totally fresh legs and have a ton of “Floyd Landesque Testosterone”…unless you have done Whiteface before, any of the vets will tell ya, that it is insane to do that on trashed legs…then swim the course, bike the course and a short T-run on Saturday and then run the course on Sunday. This is basically like option 3 above, with a longer run on the third day. Keep in mind that whiteface is a 3 hour ride and I think ML hit 180 TSS on that ride alone.

I’m not sure what type of multi day “stage training” you’ve tried to do in Lake Placid, incorporating elements of the local topography (whiteface) and the Ironman course, but if you’re going to be around for 3 days AND you want to get most of the Ironman course done and also climb Whiteface well and absorb the training and recovery quickly, I submit my input for your consideration.

You can try your plan, but I’ll give it a “FAIL” grade before you even arrive in LP.

Having N=20 “stage training samples” from just myself in LP and more like N=200 samples from others who have joined my various training days, I strongly suggest you consider my input based on the survival/completion/blow up/lack of recovery rate of the aforementioned sample group.

22

Besides training/volunteering at the LP race year, this is my first adventure into multi-day training in the 'daks (unless you count many weekends of rock / ice climbing in the region).

I am going into the weekend with my goal being to ride the LP course twice and do the run course once… anything else I get in will be a bonus. Since the LP marathon is that Sunday morning, that essentiallly takes away that day to do any running on the course, and I’m sure getting into town to Mirror Lake will be tough.

Thanks for the suggestions. I’ll talk with my training partner and try to arrange our schedules to follow your advise.

Train safe.

Mark

23

You really don’t need to run the run course twice. Once is plenty. For the Sunday long run head out from the tennis courts and head out by Mirror Lake and follow the reverse run course down Papa-Mama Bear on route 86 until 86 joins up with River road. From there, you can run in on the “actual route”. The run down 86 is actually really nice, and you’ll still get “the hard part” of the IM course when you run into town back with the marathon guys. It’s not like the LP marathon is huge…there should be no issue running on the side of the road…please take my advice though and do Whiteface first. You really want to do this baby on fresh legs. Then the next day, do th 60 min swim and 180K bike and really short run…save the rest of your legs for Sunday’s run.

If you are rookie, don’t go out there and make rookie mistakes. I’ve done IMLP 10 times and made every rookie mistake in the book…the biggest rookie mistake that you can make is doing more training in a single day (with a large part being running) than your average training hours in March.

That’s what most people do. They train 10 hours per week in March, go to LP 2.5 months later and suddenly think they can do 10 hours of training in a single day and NOT COOK most of the next 3-6 weeks of training. My average training hours for the year is 17 hours per week. On day 2, I’ll do around 7 hours of training. That’s less than half my average week, and right now I’m on 20-22 hours, so its more like a third of what my body can take. There is the odd stud like ML that can go from 5 hours of training per week to 9 hours in a day, but he’s the exception to the rule. For the rest of us, if you’re doing more in a day than half your weekly average, and then hoping to back it up the next day with more, it’s just trouble waiting to rear its ugly head (unless you really really dial down the intensity which most people will not).

The “trouble” will appear approximately 4-14 days from that point when you come down from the initial high and crash in the process of trying to get back to the rest of your IM build.

While this message is in response to your post, its a general posting to anyone showing up. Don’t try to do what the fast guys are doing in June, because realistically you weren’t doing the hard training in Jan-Apr that the big boys were putting down.

I’m all over the guys in my local Ottawa training group to put the work in from Jan to April. They hate me for it through the winter, but love me for it now when they start doing PB’s.

Now if you’ve done a ton of work through the winter, you can be more aggresive, but better to be conservative

thanks for reading this rant/advice/dribble :slight_smile:

Dev

24

Dev,

Whats up with people trying to hijack your event? Hey ML… you dont want to do part of it…DONT. Jesus. But it is Devs event respect that. Run your own if you dont like it.
Sadly Alec and I cannot make it up there this year. We loved the event last year and hope to do it again in future years.
Swim Ride and Run safely.
All the best,

DaveD

25

Hey Dave, its too bad the Boston studs will not be there. Can you ship up a contingent of stand in posers from your victorious Team RAAM crew…we need some people to keep ML and Tetsuoni honest.

WRT to ML hijacking the training day, if anything, the entire format is “IN HONOUR OF ML STUPIDITY”…and of course I have to please the expat East Germans (Kus) and as such the dual toll gate climbs end up as part of the festivities.

As I mentioned, those not wanting to do the dual toll gates can go 10K out and 10k back twice at the bottom of the Keene (turn right…its a really nice stretch that most trigeeks never see), but you’re not eligible for the medals being done by Rolldown/Chris Macknie…speaking of Chris, at the young age of 46, he just ran a 35 minute 10K and 2:48 marathon in the same month and will be on Whiteface for the festivities!

And for those of you avoiding Epicman to go race Eagleman, we’re sending a parallel set of Ottawa Studs/posers/hangers on to keep you kids honest. 2xIMLP Amateur champ Leslie Sanderson will not make the yearly appearance at Epicman and will be at Eagleman to keep the W40-44 honest as will Rick Hellard and IMLP 2008 2nd overall amateur Ryan Cain.

Dev

26

Sounds like we should have a good contingent for the stupidity challenge. I hope to have a couple of EN ringers show up. Rich is arriving late and won’t make it in time to go up.

27

Sounds like we should have a good contingent for the stupidity challenge. I hope to have a couple of EN ringers show up. Rich is arriving late and won’t make it in time to go up.

Pretty sure Rich paid extra for a later flight, so he’d have a legit excuse to miss the “fun”. :wink:

28

Dev,

Whats up with people trying to hijack your event? Hey ML… you dont want to do part of it…DONT. Jesus. But it is Devs event respect that. Run your own if you dont like it.
Sadly Alec and I cannot make it up there this year. We loved the event last year and hope to do it again in future years.
Swim Ride and Run safely.
All the best,

DaveD

DaveD,

with all due respect, blow me.

I’m not hijacking Dev’s event. He is. And that’s his call. I’m entitled to my opinion, and my right to voice it. As are you.
Dev can make it 20x Whiteface, and that’s fine too. It’s his ball, he can do with it what he wants.

29

Blow you? This is a long, hard event. He needs a meal, not a snack.

30

Blow you? This is a long, hard event. He needs a meal, not a snack.

I’ve got your long and *hard *right here, honey.

PS - I’ll make sure to wait for you at the top of Whiteface. For at least 10 mins or so, but then you’re on your own.

31

Wait for me at the top? Aren’t we starting at the same time? How early are you leaving?
As for the swim, good thing it’s for time, and not distance.
I called Emilio, like you asked - he said he can’t make a 20mm suit for you, but you could slice open a tauntaun like Luke Skywalker and float along inside that.
For you, it won’t be so bad, as you actually smell worse.
http://www.thinkgeek.com/geektoys/plush/bb2e/zoom/

32

I like that the smack talk is coming from other parties. If you guys keep it up I might need to video the entire climb and post on youtube (assume I can keep up with at least one of ya for a while)!

33

Dev - are you still offering to beer-Sherpa for us? I have a supply of Dale’s Pale Ale (the BEST beer in a can) to bring for the Prologue.

I had 2 tonight (after a SN Porter) to get to my proper “3 for a PB” ™ requirement.
In tetsuoni’s case, the PB stands for Pot Belly, but it works equally well for both of us, each in their own way.

34

I think Dev should bring 2 beers, 1 for himself, and 1 for whoever gets to the top first, tetsuoni or ML…I would expect them to tie with a sub 45 minute split…

35

Only way tetsuoni gets to the top in under an hour, is riding a Harley.

He’s not exactly in climbing shape these days, unless you consider ‘Round’ as a shape.

I’ll be happy w/ something in the 55-57 min range. I’m no Yoda.

36

I think Dev should bring 2 beers, 1 for himself, and 1 for whoever gets to the top first, tetsuoni or ML…I would expect them to tie with a sub 45 minute split…

Not sure the best place for Dev to start drinking is the top of whiteface but the other idea sounds good.

37

Sounds like we should have a good contingent for the stupidity challenge. I hope to have a couple of EN ringers show up. Rich is arriving late and won’t make it in time to go up.

Pretty sure Rich paid extra for a later flight, so he’d have a legit excuse to miss the “fun”. :wink:

The “social” parts of the EN rally are being held nightly at the Pub. I guess we will be attending. Did you get a pass for Friday evening yet?

38

Agreed on taking anything in the 55-57 minute range. I don’t really know how this will play out. Without Kdw in my wave at Mooseman on Sunday I don’t really know how hard I need to push as I will be ‘racing blind’ with him starting 5 minutes back. It likely means that I will push waaaaaay too hard to not get caught before T2 and if I get to T2 before him, I’ll be running scared.

You guys will be able to thank kdw for making me a plug 4 days later on Whiteface. I’ll need to pull out every recovery trick in the books to get legs back for Whiteface. Looks like I will be driving back to Ottawa with an ice patch on my quads on Sunday nite!

39

I will be happy if I can cut 9 seconds off last years time and end up with 59:59. My plan for accomplishing it involves both not running on Thursday morning and not starting my watch 5 minutes before we start then getting demoralized at the end.

40

Agreed on taking anything in the 55-57 minute range. I don’t really know how this will play out. Without Kdw in my wave at Mooseman on Sunday I don’t really know how hard I need to push as I will be ‘racing blind’ with him starting 5 minutes back. It likely means that I will push waaaaaay too hard to not get caught before T2 and if I get to T2 before him, I’ll be running scared.

You guys will be able to thank kdw for making me a plug 4 days later on Whiteface. I’ll need to pull out every recovery trick in the books to get legs back for Whiteface. Looks like I will be driving back to Ottawa with an ice patch on my quads on Sunday nite!

All part of my Master Plan. BWAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!! :wink:

Now I just need to find those frickin sharks with the frickin lazers on their frickin heads…