I am trying to decide on a wheelset and I could use some help. I am debating between Zipp 900 disc / 808 firecrest tubulars and HED JET disc / JET 9 clinchers. The only problem I have with the tubulars is that I don’t know how to glue them so I will have to find someone locally that can. I will only be racing a handful of races a year so I can’t really justify paying more than the price of these wheelsets. Also, I am a returning cat 3 that has gained a bunch of weight (after 4 knee surgeries) and the chances of me being on the podium are next to none. I will be under the weight limit on these before next season starts so that isn’t really a concern.
I have had a couple of sets of 404’s in the past and had very good luck with them. I have never ridden HED’s but I know they are good wheels. I will be racing time trials, I’m not a runner or a swimmer so tri’s are not in my future. They will be going on a BMC TT02 (aluminum/carbon model).
I would love to hear from those that have experience with on or the other, especially if you have experience with both.
Don’t mess with tubulars if you don’t want them just go with what you like best. The differences in times really wont be noticeable for you they are nearly identical. You can always try the carbon clincher and 900 clincher if you are dead set on zipps.
Don’t mess with tubulars if you don’t want them just go with what you like best. The differences in times really wont be noticeable for you they are nearly identical. You can always try the carbon clincher and 900 clincher if you are dead set on zipps.
Thank you. The Zipp clinchers put them above my price range so they aren’t really an option right now. I love the way tubulars ride, I just hate the inconvenience.
Save your money. There’s no Zipp that’s worth the premium. I currently own a 404 Firecrest clincher front, an 808 Firecrest Clincher front, Hed Jet 6s and 9s, both and a HED Jet disc in both C2 and non-C2. I raced alternately on the Zipps and Heds in the last year and honestly never felt there was anything about the Firecrest wheels that justified the hype or cost difference versus the Hed Jets. My best races were on the Jets.
There’s a lot of crap spewed on this forum and on the internet in general that companies try to pass off as scientific data. A short while ago, Zipp was showing charts indicating that that their Firecrest wheels were the best thing out there. Now Bontrager is showing test data that doesn’t even show the Firecrest being as good as Hed’s wheels (and of course, they’re showing their Bontrager wheels being the best).
Experience is always the subject of derision here on this forum. I’ve had direct experience with all the wheels about which you’re asking and, if you ask me, the “science” being presented is suspect.
Save your money. There’s no Zipp that’s worth the premium. I currently own a 404 Firecrest clincher front, an 808 Firecrest Clincher front, Hed Jet 6s and 9s, both and a HED Jet disc in both C2 and non-C2. I raced alternately on the Zipps and Heds in the last year and honestly never felt there was anything about the Firecrest wheels that justified the hype or cost difference versus the Hed Jets. My best races were on the Jets.
There’s a lot of crap spewed on this forum and on the internet in general that companies try to pass off as scientific data. A short while ago, Zipp was showing charts indicating that that their Firecrest wheels were the best thing out there. Now Bontrager is showing test data that doesn’t even show the Firecrest being as good as Hed’s wheels (and of course, they’re showing their Bontrager wheels being the best).
Experience is always the subject of derision here on this forum. I’ve had direct experience with all the wheels about which you’re asking and, if you ask me, the “science” being presented is suspect.
(Ducking and covering now.)
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Thank you very much, that is exactly the type reply I was looking for. Just out of curiosity, do you think the Jet Disc FR is worth the extra money over the regular Disc?
Do a search and find Al Morrison’s (AFM) rolling resistance charts. Get a set of good race clinchers and some of the better-rated clincher tires per Al’s chart. Get latex tubes for race day. Though the chart would seem to indicate that tubulars are faster, you have to recognize that the gluing technique used to make them so fast also makes them nearly impossible to remove in the event of a mid-race flat. Also, whether looking at tubulars or clinchers, you’re always going to be trading off speed and durability. The fastest tubulars and the fastest clinchers have very thin tread and/or very whispy sidewalls. If you’re racing shorter TTs and need to go all out, go to the low end of Al’s list and make your selection. If you’re racing long-course tris, you may want to go a bit farther down the list and balance low rolling resistance with a bit more durability. But always go with a latex tube on race day (and carry a butyl spare if you’re using Co2 as your re-inflation method).
Tough to say. I don’t believe they use ceramic bearings in any of their Flamme Rouge wheels anymore. The rims may be of a bit ligher material and I believe the biggest difference is in the layup of the carbon covers. The ones used on the Flamme Rouge wheels are a little bit lighter. I think a small amount of weight is the only meaningful difference. If your races will be on flatter courses, you probably don’t need to worry about the Flamme Rouge upgrade. If you’ll be doing hillier courses, you may appreciate the lesser weight if you’re a smaller rider.
Straight up … I’d pass on the FR upgrade for the disc if it were me.
If you call HED and talk with Vince or Andy or any of the folks who answer the phone, they’ll be very straight-forward with you about what the differences are in the wheels and I’ve never had them encourage me to spend money that wouldn’t benefit me. They want your repeat business.
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I appreciate your appreciation, but I hope you’ll wait until Monday when more folks will have a chance to chime in. I’m confident in what I’ve told you, but you may want to hear some other opinions. Just be careful about what people claim is hard fact or science when it comes to these kind of wheel tests and “data.”
I appreciate your appreciation, but I hope you’ll wait until Monday when more folks will have a chance to chime in. I’m confident in what I’ve told you, but you may want to hear some other opinions. Just be careful about what people claim is hard fact or science when it comes to these kind of wheel tests and “data.”
Best of luck!
Yes, definitely waiting until Monday. I can’t place the order with HED until then. I was most likely going with the HED’s but I just wanted to make sure that I wasn’t making some huge mistake. The weight difference is probably my biggest concern but that doesn’t seem to be quite as big of an issue on tt bikes as it is when racing road bikes since there aren’t nearly as many accelerations and there is much less climbing.
I appreciate your appreciation, but I hope you’ll wait until Monday when more folks will have a chance to chime in. I’m confident in what I’ve told you, but you may want to hear some other opinions. Just be careful about what people claim is hard fact or science when it comes to these kind of wheel tests and “data.”
Best of luck!
The fact is there is a difference between them. There has been plenty or windtunnel data not shown by zipp or hed that does show there is a difference in the wheels. Since physics works it can translate to a pretty accurate time savings based on drag number. At least if you have a reliable way to test that. There isn’t however, as far as I know much non-company sponsored data comparing zipp/hed/bontrager etc out right now for the latest iteration which is what I am currently interested in seeing.
Huge mistake? Not at all, any of the deep wheels from the name manufacturers are good, you’re looking at seconds over a 40k race. Same with the debates over clincher vs tubular. Tires from the top of the list are all fast. We argue passionately because we like to argu, their are giant differences.
As far as the data goes, keep in mind that there isn’t a standard test that everyone uses. All the big companies have their own protocal and their wheels are designed to do well inj that test. They hope that their test reflects reality better than the other guys test does. Given that its not a surprise that every companies wheel is best in their testing.
Take Zipp for example they are pretty open with the testing and have tested the H3 with a tire that is not optimal for that tire, while they test their wheel with a tire that is optimal. I don’t mean this to be a criticism, all companies test in similar ways.
Also keep in mind that the real world is messier than a windtunnel. You tend to get big differences in a WT because its so consistent. Swirling wind low wind changing wind, all tend to make the differences in drag less than it a wind tunnel. Thats not to say I think WT number are in valid, just that if 2 wheels test 5 watts or grams or whatevers different in a WT, they will be closer than that in real life.
If you go with the Heds, which I think are great wheels, check out http://www.tri-zone.com/. They give you free shipping and extra specials with wheel purchases. No, I don’t work for Tri-zone.
If you go with the Heds, which I think are great wheels, check out http://www.tri-zone.com/. They give you free shipping and extra specials with wheel purchases. No, I don’t work for Tri-zone.
Thanks. I work at a shop so I will be getting them straight from HED.
You work at a shop? So basically we don’t know a rather important aspect, what do you pay for either wheel set? I would take the cheaper set, both sets are fast.
Having a wheelset that is within 20sec/40km of the world best set (whatever that is) leaves me confident enough to concentrate on my training.
Unless you are getting a proform deal buying used is a better option for those on a strict budget IMHO. Either wheel choice listed is fine. I have ridden both and find I like the Zipps better in harsh winds.
Frankly when I worked in a shop I was making such modest $$$ that buying carbon wheels was just way out of the realm. I proformed a decent frame (that i still ride today) and that was a stretch as it was.
Not for nothing but working in a shop you should have someone show you how to properly mount tubulars if you get a chance.
I completely agree about buying used. Lots of good race wheels with very low miles available if you search the classifieds here on ST or ebay. Just make sure you’ve got a good handle on how much use the wheels have had and whether or not they were ever crashed, etc.