So let’s just say for health reasons, you were just getting back onto the bike after no training or riding for months. And let’s just say that you know your FTP is horrible (it wasn’t good to start with). And let’s say that you’ve only got 45 minutes to dedicate to each of your 3 sessions a week.
So what would you do as a set of intervals to get the most bang for the buck for each workout? Wanting to stay in Sweet Spot to have decent recovery
Training Peaks suggests 3x8 with 4 minutes rest. I’ve been doing 5x5 with 90 seconds rest @ 90% FTP.
Those two do about the same amount of total work, in slightly different ways. Wondering which is more effective?
Training Peaks suggests 3x8 with 4 minutes rest. I’ve been doing 5x5 with 90 seconds rest @ 90% FTP.
That is a waste of your time. Get on your bike, ride easy for 5 minutes, and then do 40 minutes at 90%.
The whole “concept” of sweet spot is that you keep it going for a “very long time” - it’s not really about intervals.
If you want to do 3x8, I would suggest something like 3x8 @ 110% FTP, or with the 5x5 - maybe 5x5 @ 115% FTP - otherwise you just aren’t working hard enough.
you missed the part where he has to ‘build’…i dont think he would survive 40 mins@ 90% FTP unless it was broken. His current training of 5x5 @90% may be all he could handle right now if hes coming back from time away. To say he is wasting his time or not working hard enough unless he is doing 3x8@ 110% etc is crap
To the OP, if all you have is 45 mins, then you could get your 2x20 sweet spot in if your able to build up to it. Nothing wrong with 3x8 and then try and build to 4x10@ FTP. It just depends on what you can handle now, and unless im reading things wrong, your only getting back into it.
This is tough because you can build… but you will quickly be limited by both frequency and volume after a month or two.
for those two months though, you will build via intensity. Starting out lower and going higher. (base to tempo to threshold to some v02)
then increase the time of intervals until you are at the 40 minutes of 95-100% like others have said. At that point though I’d advise you find another day to train to add more stress. I only say that because 3 days a week of 95-100% intensity can start to wear on some people mentally.
you missed the part where he has to ‘build’…i dont think he would survive 40 mins@ 90% FTP unless it was broken. His current training of 5x5 @90% may be all he could handle right now if hes coming back from time away. To say he is wasting his time or not working hard enough unless he is doing 3x8@ 110% etc is crap
To the OP, if all you have is 45 mins, then you could get your 2x20 sweet spot in if your able to build up to it. Nothing wrong with 3x8 and then try and build to 4x10@ FTP. It just depends on what you can handle now, and unless im reading things wrong, your only getting back into it.
I don’t think Scott is far off with his suggestions. I guess it depends on how the OP determined his FTP. Did he just pull it out the air or actually test it? Because with a proper FTP he should be able to do these.
I would slightly alter the % of FTP scott suggested. Say one workout 5x5’ @ 105-110% FTP with 2’ rest. One long tempo/sweetspot 85-90% for 30’ to start then upping to 40’ fter a couple weeks. And 3x8’ @ 105-110% of FTP to start then working towards 4 sets. Do that for 6-8 weeks and see where you are.
I’m very very heavy with sweet spot training. I have great luck improving with my “hard” riding being almost exclusively in the 90% range. I like the idea of 40 minutes at 90%. Of course that’s assuming you aren’t over estimating your FTP.
You are correct that this is a build phase. I haven’t been on the bike since last September, and for the 12 months before that my riding/recovery was hampered by drugs I was taking for a heart issue. For the first couple of rides, holding at 90% FTP for the 5 minutes was difficult. Trying 40 minutes at 90% would likely just end up me bailing the workout sometime early.
I’m not posting my FTP because to be quite honestly I effectively would count as 100% untrained right now.
5 minute intervals with 90 seconds rest versus 8 minute intervals with 4 minutes rest creates a different kind of adaptation as far as I see it.
I know that I will have to work to longer intervals. But do I work it from the shorter 5 minutes ones with less rest, or from the longer ones with more rest?
To be honest, I haven’t done a FTP test this year. I’m using last years pathetic number. I was going to do a couple of weeks of trying to get my legs to respond and then I was going to do a test. I felt I should at least get some work into the legs before I test. If I’d tried to do a FTP test at the beginning of this years training, I would’ve been in a bad place…
If u have 3 sessions a week u could do both of them. For the 3rd day maybe try some v02 stuff if your body can handle it? Even if its short 30 second bursts on/off and build from there
Either way I would do an FTP tests now. Doesn’t matter if it ends up being 50 watts, it’s nothing to be embarrassed about or ashamed. It will give you a much needed platform to base proper numbers around in training.
My wife was going to try and get into triathlon. Bought a road bike and everything for her. Got her to do a 20min FTP test so we had an idea how to balance her cycle training and after that session she nearly cried and that was the end of her triathlon career lol. So i can sympathise with you there! Sometimes you do need to ride and not worry so much about numbers etc, but eventually the FTP figure will be very useful for you.
Training Peaks suggests 3x8 with 4 minutes rest. I’ve been doing 5x5 with 90 seconds rest @ 90% FTP.
That is a waste of your time. Get on your bike, ride easy for 5 minutes, and then do 40 minutes at 90%.
The whole “concept” of sweet spot is that you keep it going for a “very long time” - it’s not really about intervals.
If you want to do 3x8, I would suggest something like 3x8 @ 110% FTP, or with the 5x5 - maybe 5x5 @ 115% FTP - otherwise you just aren’t working hard enough.
An hour at 90-92% is even better!! Done a few of those and pushed to around 95% for the last 10-15 minutes. Feels hard, but manageable.
My advice is to do an actual test, and go from there.
It’s really important to train at intensities that are appropriate for your current fitness, not where you think your should be training.
Letting go of your ego about what you think you should do vs. what you actually should do is one of the first steps to really making big progress.
If you’ve done a week or so of riding, (3-5 rides) - you’re good to try for a test. Do a simple 3 minute all out, and then a 8 - 20 minute all out effort and plug it into a CP calculator. Will it be pathetic? Maybe, but it will be the truth, and the truth never hurt anyone.
ETA: I get caught in the trap of training where I think I should be vs. where I am - and you can distinctly tell by looking at my results where I am mentally in letting my ego control me.
You need to forget about staying in the sweet spot and don’t bother about FTP. If you only have 3x45 min a week, the most effective way to spend them are going HARD. Sorry to burst your bubble, but sweet spot has no place in this. You should be able to recover from three short hard session a week when you have no other training load. If you feel under for a session, take it easy, but don’t make it a habit.
5x5 and 3x8 are both good. Mix it up to not go crazy. Make sure you hold the same or better power during the last interval as the first. If you feel you might be able to do one more interval after the last, but not two, the intensity is about right. Minimum 3-4 min long intervals to get your cardiac output approaching the max.
Letting go of your ego about what you think you should do vs. what you actually should do is one of the first steps to really making big progress.
Honestly, when your FTP is where mine has been for the last year, there is no ego involved. I had to swallow that pill when I did my first test with my power meter.
Add my weight into the equation, and my ego was double crushed a long time ago.
I do a huge amount of sweet spot work and the results are there
Whenever I do a fresh ftp test and raise my ftp, I cannot handle 2x20 @ 90%. So I’ll start with 2x8 or 2x10 then 2x12, 2x15 then 2x20s.
Once 2x20s and 2x30’s start to feel on the easy side, I repeat this process with a newer and ideally higher ftp.
this is good advice, i like the idea of mixing things up a little, keeping the rest interval very short and using a load you can handle where the progression is moving toward 1 x 40 mins over a period of weeks, then drop back down and raise the load
To be honest, I haven’t done a FTP test this year. I’m using last years pathetic number. I was going to do a couple of weeks of trying to get my legs to respond and then I was going to do a test. I felt I should at least get some work into the legs before I test. If I’d tried to do a FTP test at the beginning of this years training, I would’ve been in a bad place…
You should do an actual test, and by actual test, a full hour test. The 20 minute test, even being untrained, there is just no way to know if you are holding 105 or 120% of your FTP for 20 minutes. If you do a full hour test, then you know with 100% certainty that you can hold it for an hour. Likewise, once you have that number, you should be able to comfortably do 90% of that pace for 40 minutes.
At the end of the day, don’t worry about your number. You can guess at it being X or want it to be Y, but if you try to do workouts around those and they are not accurate you will either end up with bailing on a lot of workouts and/or not being motivated to do additional workouts. Make sure you are being realistic, your FTP should go up reasonably fast if you are as untrained as you say.
You should do an actual test, and by actual test, a full hour test. The 20 minute test, even being untrained, there is just no way to know if you are holding 105 or 120% of your FTP for 20 minutes. If you do a full hour test, then you know with 100% certainty that you can hold it for an hour. Likewise, once you have that number, you should be able to comfortably do 90% of that pace for 40 minutes.
This is really not a great idea for a lot of people, especially one in an ‘untrained’ state.
If you’re stressing the importance of having a current FTP number to work with, I couldn’t agree more. There are great suggestions on here (starting with Scott) with 5x5 and 3x8 at 100+%, but the workouts are not going to be worth much if the FTP isn’t current. Forget about last year and use one of the well established testing methods to find your current number. If OP is time crunched, he should stop wasting time with last year’s numbers.
Sweet spot has its role in high volume training. I’m not sure it would have a spot in OP’s training with three 45 minute sessions being all that’s allowed.
