Where were you before the debate and where are you now, on voting

Lavender Room
1

Just wondering where people have landed the day after.

I was regretfully Biden before (really a Not Trump vote). But after that I can’t take the Democratic party seriously. The message has been we can’t let that guy back into office, he will be come a dictator he wont leave blah blah blah… then they turn around and say This is the guy who can stop this disaster. Sorry cant take you or your message seriously. As long as Trump doesn’t become more unhinged in the next few months, and the Dems keep Joe and don’t figure out a way to reverse what we saw last night, I don’t think I will be voting for either of these two and I don’t think I am alone.

And yes I sent this to my cousin who is in the Michigan Congress and is a women, so as some connections to Whitmer and the higher ups in the Michigan Dem. party.

2

Just wondering where people have landed the day after.

I was regretfully Biden before (really a Not Trump vote). But after that I can’t take the Democratic party seriously. The message has been we can’t let that guy back into office, he will be come a dictator he wont leave blah blah blah… then they turn around and say This is the guy who can stop this disaster. Sorry cant take you or your message seriously. As long as Trump doesn’t become more unhinged in the next few months, and the Dems keep Joe and don’t figure out a way to reverse what we saw last night, I don’t think I will be voting for either of these two and I don’t think I am alone.

We have two track records on the presidents:

  1. trump was a historic failure on many fronts.
  2. Biden has been average. If he dies, I think Harris would be better than Trump.

Was the same before the debate, same after. If they replace Biden with RFK I would vote for RFK.

Biden being old - and showing it - doesnt change who trump is/his report card vs. Bidens.

3

Just wondering where people have landed the day after.

I was regretfully Biden before (really a Not Trump vote). But after that I can’t take the Democratic party seriously. The message has been we can’t let that guy back into office, he will be come a dictator he wont leave blah blah blah… then they turn around and say This is the guy who can stop this disaster. Sorry cant take you or your message seriously. As long as Trump doesn’t become more unhinged in the next few months, and the Dems keep Joe and don’t figure out a way to reverse what we saw last night, I don’t think I will be voting for either of these two and I don’t think I am alone.

We have two track records on the presidents:

  1. trump was a historic failure on many fronts.
  2. Biden has been average. If he dies, I think Harris would be better than Trump.

Was the same before the debate, same after. If they replace Biden with RFK I would vote for RFK.

Biden being old - and showing it - doesnt change who trump is/his report card vs. Bidens.

You seem to miss the point, it changes the Dem’s messaging. They pretend a Trump victory is going to be a major (beyond just a Republican winning) blow to this country, but at the same time, present Joe as their warrior in this fight. Cant take them seriously anymore. Will return to my old ways of looking at this, both parties are out for themselves and don’t give a shit about the country. So no not going to support either and after spending 5 min look at RFK stuff a while back, yeah talk about a wack job no thanks on that either.

4

Just wondering where people have landed the day after.

I was regretfully Biden before (really a Not Trump vote). But after that I can’t take the Democratic party seriously. The message has been we can’t let that guy back into office, he will be come a dictator he wont leave blah blah blah… then they turn around and say This is the guy who can stop this disaster. Sorry cant take you or your message seriously. As long as Trump doesn’t become more unhinged in the next few months, and the Dems keep Joe and don’t figure out a way to reverse what we saw last night, I don’t think I will be voting for either of these two and I don’t think I am alone.

We have two track records on the presidents:

  1. trump was a historic failure on many fronts.
  2. Biden has been average. If he dies, I think Harris would be better than Trump.

Was the same before the debate, same after. If they replace Biden with RFK I would vote for RFK.

Biden being old - and showing it - doesnt change who trump is/his report card vs. Bidens.

You seem to miss the point, it changes the Dem’s messaging. They pretend a Trump victory is going to be a major (beyond just a Republican winning) blow to this country, but at the same time, present Joe as their warrior in this fight. Cant take them seriously anymore. Will return to my old ways of looking at this, both parties are out for themselves and don’t give a shit about the country. So no not going to support either and after spending 5 min look at RFK stuff a while back, yeah talk about a wack job no thanks on that either.

he’s not missing the point. It’s a reading comprehension thing

He doesn’t like the point so he changes the conversation to one that more suits his TDS and the point he wants to make.

Ironically, it’s exactly what Trump does (and drives sosaybullshit crazy).

5

Just wondering where people have landed the day after.

I was regretfully Biden before (really a Not Trump vote). But after that I can’t take the Democratic party seriously. The message has been we can’t let that guy back into office, he will be come a dictator he wont leave blah blah blah… then they turn around and say This is the guy who can stop this disaster. Sorry cant take you or your message seriously. As long as Trump doesn’t become more unhinged in the next few months, and the Dems keep Joe and don’t figure out a way to reverse what we saw last night, I don’t think I will be voting for either of these two and I don’t think I am alone.

We have two track records on the presidents:

  1. trump was a historic failure on many fronts.
  2. Biden has been average. If he dies, I think Harris would be better than Trump.

Was the same before the debate, same after. If they replace Biden with RFK I would vote for RFK.

Biden being old - and showing it - doesnt change who trump is/his report card vs. Bidens.

You seem to miss the point, it changes the Dem’s messaging. They pretend a Trump victory is going to be a major (beyond just a Republican winning) blow to this country, but at the same time, present Joe as their warrior in this fight. Cant take them seriously anymore. Will return to my old ways of looking at this, both parties are out for themselves and don’t give a shit about the country. So no not going to support either and after spending 5 min look at RFK stuff a while back, yeah talk about a wack job no thanks on that either.

Wasnt your question where were you before the debate/now? My answer is still anyone but trump. It was that before the debate, and it was that after the debate. Biden did Biden things, Trump did Trump things.

I completely agree with your points, and hope biden steps down. if he does, I will vote for that person over trump except if it is the senator from NJ.

People who were looking for an off ramp, and were going to find that off ramp before november have found it.

6

Just wondering where people have landed the day after.

I was regretfully Biden before (really a Not Trump vote). But after that I can’t take the Democratic party seriously. The message has been we can’t let that guy back into office, he will be come a dictator he wont leave blah blah blah… then they turn around and say This is the guy who can stop this disaster. Sorry cant take you or your message seriously. As long as Trump doesn’t become more unhinged in the next few months, and the Dems keep Joe and don’t figure out a way to reverse what we saw last night, I don’t think I will be voting for either of these two and I don’t think I am alone.

And yes I sent this to my cousin who is in the Michigan Congress and is a women, so as some connections to Whitmer and the higher ups in the Michigan Dem. party.

Before the debate I said I wasn’t voting for Biden or Trump and that has not changed.

I’d be okay if Trump won at this point.

My problem with Biden is that we don’t know who is really making the decisions and that is a problem for me. I think we are ever closer to a hot war in Europe or the Far East and I want to know who the commander is.

7

I was Biden before, and I am Biden after.

I view Trump and the current iteration of the GOP as a significant threat to the modern way of life in America. The rise of Christian nationalism is, frankly, frightening. What we’ve seen in Louisiana and yesterday in Oklahoma is what I fear will happen across all red states over the next several years. Once those red states are successful in forcing religion into public education, Republicans will try to do at the national level. Add in Roe and some of the other ideas that have been floated and things only look worse, in my view. Christian nationalism is a threat to this country, full stop. Further, I don’t think they will stop unless forced to do so, and I expect that gay marriage will be next. And if they fail at stopping gay marriage because two of the conservative justices flip, well, justices can and will be replaced.

Sitting out an election is anyone’s right, but I don’t understand it. Suck it the fuck up and make a decision. Either you are ok with Trump or you are not ok with Trump. There is no middle ground, so stop clutching at your pearls. I’m not ok with Trump. I’ve made my decision.

Now let me add this, our immediate family will be ok. We don’t sit on the margins. There is a line from an Avett Brother’s song that goes something like “if your life doesn’t change by the man that’s elected”. I try to keep that line in mind. My life, odds are, is not going to substantively change based on who is elected, but I know a lot of people whose life will change. And I’m not ok with that.

I don’t care that Biden is old.

I don’t care that Biden stutters.

I don’t care if he dies in office that Kamala Harris will be President.

I don’t care about Hunter and his laptop.

I don’t care that interest rates are high.

I don’t care that housing is expensive.

I don’t give a FUCK about any of that.

I care about our democracy, and I care about our rights. Because without those two things, nothing else matters, nothing.

Matt

8

I think we are ever closer to a hot war in Europe or the Far East and I want to know who the commander is.

This is kinda my thing. I would prefer a team of sane advisors (not really caring who they are) coming up with a solution - while Biden naps, vs. trump ignoring everyone and doing what he thinks is best.

If something wild - like covid - happens again, I would prefer Trump not calling the shots. I think a team of sane advisors could come up with better solutions.

9

Pre-debate: Biden
Post-debate: Biden or whoever is the Democratic nominee

It’s an anti-Trump vote as it was in 2020. Coming into this year my thoughts were that Trump is likely to win the electoral college. After last night I think his chances have improved.

10

It’s not he is old, it’s that she is black.

The debate confirmed that Trump is an incompetent liar and that Joe is old and has a good grasp of policy. I would prefer the Democrats run someone else but I have zero doubt Joe is a better choice than Trump.

11

Not voting doesn’t mean you don’t affect the outcome. It still has an effect, so sorry that you won’t be able to wash your hands of any of this.

Whatever it takes to keep Trump out of the White House before
Whatever it takes to keep Trump out of the White House after

Of course, I live in a blue state and with the EC my vote truly does not matter, but I will still act as if it does

12

Pretty much what Matt said. Biden before, Biden now. DT and the Republicans are telling us what they plan, and fuck that shit.

13

I would never ever vote for Trump. I hope he keels over dead soon.

14

…
My problem with Biden is that we don’t know who is really making the decisions and that is a problem for me.
…

Wading in here.

At least, you know a Biden administration is/will be made up of sane folks and that he can reasonably weigh their arguments in situation rooms leading up to a decision.

A second Trump administration will likely not have reasonable and sane adults in the room to keep him in check. And Trump’s decision making about policies, international relations, and all the stuff that matters … is frightening.

15

Never Trump
Can’t vote for Biden

Both are unfit for office IMO.

So, off to the lost and found bin I go…

16

Just wondering where people have landed the day after.

I was regretfully Biden before (really a Not Trump vote). But after that I can’t take the Democratic party seriously. The message has been we can’t let that guy back into office, he will be come a dictator he wont leave blah blah blah… then they turn around and say This is the guy who can stop this disaster. Sorry cant take you or your message seriously. As long as Trump doesn’t become more unhinged in the next few months, and the Dems keep Joe and don’t figure out a way to reverse what we saw last night, I don’t think I will be voting for either of these two and I don’t think I am alone.

And yes I sent this to my cousin who is in the Michigan Congress and is a women, so as some connections to Whitmer and the higher ups in the Michigan Dem. party.

I don’t understand this, because as I read it, it makes no sense.

Pre-debate: you weren’t going to vote for Trump. You were a regretful Biden voter.

Post-debate: you won’t vote for either of them.

Now, if Trump had zero chance of being elected in November, that might make sense. You were against Trump and only slightly for Biden; now you’re not for either, but with Trump having no chance in November your lack of support for either candidate makes no difference, and you can express a protest abstention which would reduce very fractionally, Biden’s mandate without damaging Biden’s chances or improving Trump’s.

But Trump is far from being in zero chance territory. When candidates are close in the polls, not voting for one advantages the other: withdrawing your vote for Biden positively improves Trump’s chances. Which, if you’re a “I won’t vote for Trump” guy is precisely the wrong thing to do.

TL;DR: two candidates in a close vote, and you don’t like either: hold your nose and vote for the one you dislike the least.

17

Never not voting, that is just dumb and cowardly. Doesn’t solve anything. Be an adult. Make a choice.

My values do not line up with the Republican Party at all but I would vote for a sane Republican over Donald Trump if he were running as a Democrat. And every Republican nominee back to Richard Nixon fits that bill. Goldwater vs Trump would be a hell of a decision.

Before the debate - Biden
After the debate - Biden but wondering if the American people are worth saving from themselves or if it is time to go FYIGM and letting them rot.

18

I don’t understand this, because as I read it, it makes no sense.

Agreed. Very short-sighted.

19

It is possible and entirely probable that more and more decisions on routine matters are being made by the Chief of Staff with the president being cut in on the backside. I would think that All National Security and most foreign affairs decisions are still up to the President with all the members of the Council present.

20

Never Trump
Can’t vote for Biden

Both are unfit for office IMO.

So, off to the lost and found bin I go…

Were these your positions both before and after the debate?