I’m sure there are a ton of you guys out there using Tufo tubulars…
I curious why I’ve heard virtual no response from those of you that have been using them. Where’s your feedback?
actually, I think most of the people that posted on the Tufo threads are using them. That would be a big handful right there.
The disparity I believe this. Tufo’s are well priced, come in a variety of widths, are reasonably light, reasonably easy to put on, have the sealant and tape option, seem to wear well, and resist punctures. Given all that they are easy to recommend. Unfortunately, there is no reason to believe the rolling resistance of the tire might be suspect until you have some good data, or if you happen to have read the german tire review. Without either of those to tidbits you would think they were the pick of the litter.
If Ashburn’s comes back inconclusive, then I’ll still feel good about the Tufo’s. If the difference is obvious. I’ll look elsewhere for my next tires.
“Good data” is extremely difficult to ascertain. I raced and trained for over a year on both powertapped trainers (michelin and conti clinchers) and Zipps (tufo tubies). No single data point or “experiment” (such as they were) was even remotely conclusive when taken at face value - its much too hard to control all the variables.
However, a years worth of power and speed data that consistently ‘doesn’t add up right’ is more than enough evidence for me to look in a different direction. At a similar power output, a P3 with Zipp 404s and a 13cm drop should be faster than a 27lb training bike with clip-ons, 0cm drop and box rims but its not. Consistently - race after race, training run after training run…I could give examples but there really isn’t any point because individually they are merely anecdotes. Maybe its the Zipps (but I doubt it)…and because I don’t know for a fact, I am making wholesale changes and hopefully my results will improve.
A new Hed H3 clincher and a CH aerocover are due to arrive this week and my powertapped Zipps are hitting ebay later this week as well.
Justin (in LI/OK/CA)…go get yourself a power device :).
ot
Having just bought a new bike, the powermeter isn’t even on my radar. I’d like to get my wife a new bike first. I’ll accept donations though.
We’re permanent in OK now. No more moves for a long time I hope.
Could you give us your similar power output within 100 watts? Just wondering how much the 10-20 watts everyone talks about was relative to your total.
Hi all
Ok this is second hand data but it’s a friend and he doses a lot of testing on wheels and tires. When we fist started doing the same TT he was sporting a 404 front and Zipp disc in back saw-up’s with Tufo’s and he’s fast, the next set of wheels it’s an H3/Hed disc clinchers and dam if he’s not faster. Now he’s on a clincher 808 with his Hed disc and he just kills us! He doses a lot of roll down testing to check for speed and the clinchers are winning out! I have had saw-up and I have never thought that they were faster.
I just don’t get the saw-up thing?
Dan…
Could you give us your similar power output within 100 watts? Just wondering how much the 10-20 watts everyone talks about was relative to your total.
FT of 280watts or so (hoping to hit 300+ this year!). After looking at all the ‘data’ I would guess that the P3 with Zipps/tufos required about 20-30 more watts to go the same speed (on flats, small rollers) as my funky trainer with box rims. After every race or data point I had another excuse - sometimes it was the wind, sometimes the heat, sometimes my fitness (when comparing splits to pre-power days), sometimes it was a ‘mechanical issue’, sometimes I blamed the “hub”, etc…
In retrospect its a little embarrassing that I was able to deceive myself so well.
ot
OK, so if I’m getting tubulars, which one should i get? I heard the Vittoria Corsa are good, some will recommend only Continental, any specific recommendations (for a 909 set)?
Also, can you use the Tufo sealant on non-Tufo tubulars?
I’m still amazed that you wouldn’t be faster on a P3 with race wheels than on a training bike - the aero advantage should be more than rolling resistance - heck I would think I could go as fast with my P3 with knobby tires as on my road bike! Are you losing power in the aero position? Did you try the P3 with training wheels to compare with your road bike?
At a similar power output, a P3 with Zipp 404s and a 13cm drop should be faster than a 27lb training bike with clip-ons, 0cm drop and box rims but its not. Consistently - race after race, training run after training run
Do you inflate your tires to the same pressure on both bikes? If so, you have a pretty good data set and you should sell you P3 on ebay and race on your training bike – its faster.
I found this site after I googled: http://www.torelli.com/home.html?http://www.torelli.com/tech/tires.shtml&1
Supports my contention that testing tires on a steel drum tells you little about real world performance.
Excerpt below:
Hand-Made Tubulars**.** Hand-made tubulars are works of art. The casing fabric of a hand-made tubular is not woven. Very fine threads, up to 320 per inch, are laid next to each other, compressed and then bonded with a latex coating. A good tubular will have over two kilometers of thread. These threads were traditionally cotton or silk. Now polyester is usually used. The threads are not interwoven as in a normal fabric. The first ply is laid on a round form. Then, another ply is laid at a 45 degree angle on top of the first one. They are bonded with heat (but not vulcanized) and the edges are folded over. The result is a casing of incredible strength and flexibility.
The edges of the fabric are sewn together as an inner tube, usually of natural latex rubber, is inserted. A base tape is glued to the inner circumference to protect the stitches.
The tire is then inflated and the tread is hand-glued to the tire casing.
This method of construction has several excellent consequences for the rider.
First of all, the tension between the casing and the tread that was found in the vulcanized tire is eliminated, making the tire more flexible. The tire doesn’t flat as easily because cuts don’t open up as quickly. The tire, with it superior suppleness and flexibility has a much nicer feel.
The unwoven casing also has benefits for the rider. The casing is so supple that when the tire rolls over irregularities in the road, a smaller area of the casing deforms compared to woven casings. This decreases rolling resistance. The tire is therefore faster. The high-thread-count casing resists the penetration of sharp objects. Flats occur less often. The tires is less prone to other road damage because the casing is so strong.
In professional racing, if the rider is not paid to ride clinchers, he will, if at all possible, ride tubular tires. The flexibility of the casing not only makes the tire faster, it handles better. The supple casing allows the tread to grip the road. The reduced harshness of the ride means more miles with less fatigue. Hand made tubulars are very expensive, but they remain the finest tires a rider can put on his bike.