I’m just wondering, not that I could afford either =\
The Zipp seem better, but I don’t really know why. I see the Cosmic Carbones all the time in bike races, but never Zipps, so that got me thinking. Which is better?
They have similar rim depth. The Zipps are quite a bit lighter. I think the reason you see the Carbones more frequently in bike races are:
-
The Carbones are more durable.
-
Mavic is a much bigger name in the Cycling world. They provide wheel support at many road races and supply wheels to more teams.
My dream wheels are the Zipp Z404. If only I had 3000 dollars (or something around that price).
Asking even though you are not shopping? Huh?
Zipp - no other options.
While we are on questions that the answer does not really matter - anyone have the Lotto numbers for next Fridays drawing?
The Carbones are more durable.
The Carbones has a lot of ‘sex’ appeal, especially for roadies. They are actually very similar to the HED Jet wheels. I ‘normal’ wheel with a carbon fairing, as opposed to the Zipps which have ‘structural’ carbon construction.
Cosmic Carbones are substantially heavier than 404s. The carbon rim on 404s is structural and the spokes terminate and anchor in the rim. The rim uses a proprietary molding and compression technique which gives them incredible strength for their weight. The Cosmic Carbone, which is pretty much extinct now due largely to the proliferation of lighter wheels and a proposed lighter structural carbon replacement by Mavic, uses a carbon skin as a fairing over the alloy rim and spoke anchor location in the rim. I own both, but only race on the 404s and 909s. The Cosmic Carbones are a little heavy for my taste since I have lighter wheels (Zipps) at my disposal.
Well, I typed a whole response above and it didn’t show up in my response above. Only the quote and my signature. So:
What I said boiled down to the fact that we’ll have a much clearer picture of the Zipp durability with CSC racing a full calender on them this year. The abuse of a full pro cycling calender will ferret out any remaining weak spots (not that I’m suggesting there are any).
Beyond that, as Tom Demerly noted, there is nothing of interest to a triathlete that suggests favoring the Carbones. The Zipps are plenty durable for the typical triathlete’s racing schedule. They are marginally more aero (but the difference is negligible making this a wash). They are over 1 lb lighter. To me, the weight difference is so significant that there is no reason to ever consider the Carbones, especially for a Triathlete. Pro cyclists ride the Mavics because they are sponsored AND Mavic is nearly ubiquitous as neutral race support.
Tom,
I also prefer 404s. However, the statement that Carbones are “virtually extinct” isn’t exactly accurate. Most of the Pro Teams in Europe are still racing them. In fact, Cosmic Carbones won Fleche Wallonne on Wednesday…For a heavy wheel, them managed to get up the Mur pretty quickly (yes, I know it was the rider).
From my friend who is a mechanic in Europe…
--Carbones are more durable--We prefer them particularly when racing in Northern Europe as they are less likely to need additional work/replacement
--Mavic is easiest to work with. They have the size and understanding of our needs
--The Carbones are VERY stiff and our riders like their handling. They also don't notice the weight once rolling along. These wheels are LOVED by riders on flat windy stages.
Both the Zipps and the Cosmics are very nice wheels - I have owned Cosmics in the past, and currently run a set of the Cane Creeks (404 rims w/ ti spokes.)
Get this, though - I have seen 3 people break spokes on 404 s this road season, and all had to change wheels immediately. No fun at all. All of these were pretty large/powerful riders, and one was a teammate who weighs in around 200lbs; this was his second broken spoke, and he also had a rim failure last year. He sold the wheels, and is back to using his old Cosmics.
My take on this is that the 404s are great - but not if you’re a big rider.
MH
All of these were pretty large/powerful riders, and one was a teammate who weighs in around 200lbs; this was his second broken spoke, and he also had a rim failure last year. He sold the wheels, and is back to using his old Cosmics.
Well, Zipp does make the “Clydesdale” version of their wheels, which is still substantially lighter than the Carbones. At 200lbs and strong, your teammate is definitely well within the intended range for these beefed up wheels.
I have been racing on Carbones for 4 years or so. They are fantastic. Smoothest hubs I have ever been on- and I used to work at a shop and tested everything. I have numerous friends and customers who have had serious durability problems with carbon fiber Zipps. Every single one who bought the Carbones on my suggestion found them to be far superior. They are heavier than Zipps, but in a TT/Tri that is not a big issue. I rarely do serious climbing or accelerating in either. If I race a mountainous course, I use my road bike.
The only problem I have had with them is one of the hex-headed spoke nipple broke while in winter storage. That is an off-the-shelf DT part, however. Other than that I did a very light trueing the first year, and never had to mess with them since.
They are durable and repairable- my two musts.