What I’ve noticed is this - many of the more aero wheels have high weights (1600-1700g), while others such as the Zipp Z-series may be less aero than say the H3, but have a significant weight savings (1100g for the Z3 vs 1300g for the 404 vs a whopping 1800g for the H3!) Given the nature of rotational weight, is the aerodynamics of the H3 worth the extra weight? More to the point, at what point does weight trump aerodynamics? When does the force needed to turn the extra weight become less than the force needed to overcome the wind resistance?
The follow-up is, is there a wheelset that is a happy medium of the two - combining lower weights with better aerodynamics to create the “fastest” wheel around? Ideas? Recommendations?
Bunnyman Institute says this: if you are a light weight, a poor bike handler, or do most of your races on hillier courses, a lighter wheel will do better.
That being said, I am still one who thinks the extra deep (over 30mm) wheels are a bit deep for many people out there. I have many, many miles under my belt, and still prefer a shallower wheel that is lighter for the front. Lower the spoke count, and it’s pretty darn aero.
Trispokes: I think they are great if you’re a veteran bike handler and the course is windless. Yes, the H3 was engineered for crosswinds, as well; however it is still a bear to handle in the crosswind. It is a great wheel if all conditions are perfect and the user is a great bike handler.
My take? I would have several types of front wheels to choose from, as the course needs can change. You want the ability to have whatever you need at your disposal. If I were to have one set of do it all wheels, it would be a front that is medium deep with as few spokes as I could get away with and a Hed3 rear.
Most of the area around here is fairly hilly. I’ve been on some relatively flat courses, but I’ve also been on some with 1 mi+ ascents (with a fair number of other climbs).
I’ve been using a pair of Rev-X Ultralites, but thought they were mighty heavy (compared to the say the Zipps, but not compared to the H3’s). The crosswind factor can be troubling.
Is there a wheel that’s a happy medium that y’all recommend? Or, what would be a great climbing wheel, as well as a great flatter course wheel, if I were to try and use two?
Although no longer made, I though the Rolf Vector Pro was a great wheel. The newer Rolf’s seem ok as well, some emphasis put on both weight and aerodynamics. Alloy rims keep them fairly cheap.
Ritchey WCS Aero DS wheels are in the same category. Like a MAvic Cosmic, lighter than a Ksyrium Elite, 16 spoke front wheel. All around a great value for under $500 retail.
Campagnolo’s Eurus wheels are also another all around good wheels. Although the wheel “cut outs” they use a la Ksyrium SL have proven to be a no-no in the wind tunnel.
You may also consider mixing the wheel types. Corima offers a 12 spoke 50mm (or so) deep front carbon wheel and a Quad spoke rear. Fairly light, pricey but not crazy, and aero. Jan Ullrich used Corima’s wheels for a time relabled as Campagnolo Bora’s on his Pinarello.
I agree with Bunnyman on aero over lightweight, but if you aren’t TTing 25mph plus, you may have more gains going light in hilly races than going aero on flat ones.
I use a 404 front and a 303 rear for most road races BTW. Tri spoke and Disc for TTs.
The use would be for tris. I don’t know what sort of classification that would fall into - probably more TT.
I had picked up a bargain on some Am Classic 58mm carbon rim wheels (1400g), basically the Zipp 404 with a different brand label. However, they were advertised to be 1100g when I ordered them… They said the extra weight was to make them accomodate a heavier guy like me. The problem is, they’re not much lighter than my present Rev-x, and probably not as aero.
Fortunately, I can get dealer cost (sometimes less) on brands such as Corima, HED, Aerospoke, FSA, so I have some great choices to work with. I just don’t know what’s really good. I’m going all out on my frame this year, and wanted to have the smokin wheels to match. A good part of it is psychological - if you think you’re really fast, you tend to be faster. Plus, it gives me some extra incentive to train harder. If you’ve got the best bike in the tri, you can’t blame your slow time on anything but yourself! And, if you’ve laid out a ton for this great bike, you dang well have to train, train, train to justify the expense!
(Incidently, my wife uses the old Vector Pros on her road bike. I don’t think she’s at all into the aero\speed thing, but likes them because they look cool! )
The Nimble Crosswind comes in pretty light for a tri-spoke. (I know it weighs less than the HED, but I don’t have a specific number with me.) You can check them out at www.nimble.net
They have less weight, and they also boast less rotational weight than most other wheels (though not independently confirmed.)
On a side note, windtunnel testing of H3’s and 404’s show that they are pretty darn close in terms of aerodynamics. The HED will be up to ten seconds faster over a 40K if my memory serves me correctly. Not much for most people, but significant enough for US Postal.
If the H3 and 404 is so close in wind resistance, won’t the weight make up the time difference? The 404’s are a full pound lighter - assuming that the course has hills, wouldn’t that weight be factored in (or am I just too gram-conscious?)
Also, if there’s any sort of crosswind, wouldn’t the 404’s come out ahead?
The difference very well could. I would double check though, make sure your weights for the HED’s are current, your numbers seem a little heavy. In a crosswind situation I’m not sure how much difference in handling there would be. Maybe someone else can touch on that.
I think you have to pick your poison. I think that you said that you were going all out on buying the bike. So you should not compromise with a do it all wheelset. Go all out and buy one set for hills and one for moderately flat. If you are a triathlete looking at triathlete wheels and going long, weight should not be the deciding factor because most half and full ironmans are relatively flat. However, if you are going to key for cycling races or shorter hilly races, then the light wheels may be better. When it comes to going long, I would go aero first, handling second, weight third.
If you are talking money is no object, start with a Mavic iO up front. Convice Zipp to sell you a Z4 rear and you’d have some pretty darn fast <1400 gram wheels.
Actually, what the deal is for me is that I can get dealer cost on many items. That makes it much more affordable.
In my neck of the woods, hills are pretty much the rule. Our local half IM has a pretty rough course. The guy who designed it never met a hill he didn’t like, and included many of the better ones in it. Even most of the sprint tris are hilly. You simply have to climb well to place well.
Honestly, I’d say that this is how it should be. A flat bike course for a half IM really makes the biking leg more of a non-factor and gives too much advantage to the runners, IMHO. (OK, I’m a cyclist and not a runner! )
When considering wheel choices, you need to consider a few important factors:
Speed: What kind of speed do you average or want to average in your races. If it is 24+ mph, you will be much better off with an aero wheel, such as a tri-spoke, in front and disc in rear. It’s when you get above 24 mph that you can start to take advantage of the tri-spoke type design - be it HED H3 or Nimble Crossind. At these speeds the increased turbine effect of all those spokes smashing back into the wind on the top half of the wheel cause a lot of wind resistance. (See #3, Wind below). Less spokes = More speed.
Grade: If the course is hilly, a 404 could be a better choice. I say could because there are always more factors involved other than just grade. Wind is always a factor, for example. If the course is hilly and the majority of it has a heavy crosswind, the 404 (or comparable) will always be a better choice than a tri-spoke. If the course is hilly but the wind is very light, you may be better off using a tri-spoke. You have to weigh out the factors and make your own decisions. And it is a very individual decision. I can usually carry better speed over the hills with a tri-spoke, again depending on gradient and wind conditions, when others would choose a 404 wheel.
Wind: Since up to 80% of your effort is overcoming aerodynamic drag, you must consider wind. It is a huge and important factor. With spoked wheels (I’m talking ZIPP 404, HED Alps, Corima 12 spoke, etc.) you get a huge turbine effect at speeds 24+ mph as I mentioned before. And the faster above that you go, the worse this becomes. That straight ahead (zero degree yaw) air becomes more important than side on drag the faster you go. Although heavy side winds can cause increased exertion and strain to hold the bike upright. If you’re 145 lbs. or less this could really hurt your race.
Your weight: As mentioned above, your body weight is a factor in wheel choice. But even then, two guys of the same weight can vary in bike handling skills, strength-to-weight ratio, and power output so weight is farther down the priority list in wheel choice than the other 3 factors mentioned above. On the flipside, A 185 lb. rider would be be ill-advised to ride a 12-spoke ZIPP wheel as he’ll destroy its integrity, yet a 140 lb. rider can take advantage of this same wheel and smoke up the hills.
My 2¢ worth.
(Shrinks say 1 in 4 people are crazy. Look at three of your friends and if their sane, YOU’RE IT!)