I have worked my way up to MOP. IN Chat, I literally finished 49% in my age group (40-44 Male). Is it possible to move up to the front? Ive only been riding a bike since 2017 and only doing IM’s and 70.3’s since 2018. I ask if it is possible because I am not minutes away - I am hours away.
Swim is normal. Bike is really bad and run is really bad even though I stay in power targets. But in training I have no problems.
how do you define “front”?
I started triathlon in late 2006 and by early 2008 I was as fast as I was ever going to get for the most part… only small changes since then.
At any rate, the training is the same.
E
Volume, confidence and knowledge of how to do each sport.
I am FOP.
I finished 3rd in my AG at St George worlds this year.
Here are some of my attributes:
I train 50 weeks per year.
I have been doing this for 12 years.
I do three weeks hard followed by one week easy.
The hard weeks involve 10 hrs of cycling, 44 miles of running and 16,000 yds of swimming.
The easy weeks involve 4 hrs of cycling, 20 miles of running and 15,000 yds of swimming.
Most of the year the hard weeks contain - 1 Tempo running effort (6- 12 miles at hard pace), 1 Tempo cycling effort (1- 2 hrs at hard pace), 1 Swimming sprints workout
For at least 3 months of the year I also do running and cycling sprints.
I bought an expensive bike (used) got it fitted and bought expensive wheels (used). I think the wheels and fitting are important. The expensive frame- less so.
I stretch after each run workout- it helps me feel less sore.
I build volume slowly. Never increasing more than 10% from previous week.
I try to continue to train easy EVEN when I am sick or injured.
I try to eat nourishing food. Beets, liver, vegetables, fish, yoghurt.
But I also eat a ton of junk food.
I was a slow division 1 swimmer.
I believe that I have a 1/100 type of talent for swimming.
And a 1/10 type talent for running and cycling.
I am talented. But there are a lot of people in the world who are more talented.
This is extremely helpful. Thanks.
There are lots of variables here, and you are not going to close the gap without transformative change to what you’ve been doing. Could be you’re:
If you’ve been at it for several years and are still hours away then it will at least take a change to what you’re doing to close the gap. Hard part is figuring out what those things are. Doing more of the same, or one or two incremental changes isn’t going to make a massive difference. Could be several incremental changes, or some drastic changes, or a combination of both.
I am certainly not talented like the person who replied before me but I do well at smaller 70.3’s. 2021 highlights would be 4th AG in 30-34 at Boulder 70.3 a few months ago, 2nd OA at a local 13.1 running 1:19:xx and on Sunday at Waco 70.3 2nd AG and 10th OA(age group only race). I feel that time in the sport his a big component to “success†whatever “success†is defined as. Listening to your body when you start to feel an injury or sickness start to come on. Enjoy the sport for what it is, meaning don’t take it so serious, we are all just a bunch of people running around in colorful costumes, and enjoy being at the start line. It takes a huge effort to even get to a race, if you can enjoy the day you will get a lot of satisfaction out of the performance regardless of the placement/result.
I am FOP.
I finished 3rd in my AG at St George worlds this year.
Here are some of my attributes:
I train 50 weeks per year.
I have been doing this for 12 years.
I do three weeks hard followed by one week easy.
The hard weeks involve 10 hrs of cycling, 44 miles of running and 16,000 yds of swimming.
The easy weeks involve 4 hrs of cycling, 20 miles of running and 15,000 yds of swimming.
Most of the year the hard weeks contain - 1 Tempo running effort (6- 12 miles at hard pace), 1 Tempo cycling effort (1- 2 hrs at hard pace), 1 Swimming sprints workout
For at least 3 months of the year I also do running and cycling sprints.
I bought an expensive bike (used) got it fitted and bought expensive wheels (used). I think the wheels and fitting are important. The expensive frame- less so.
I stretch after each run workout- it helps me feel less sore.
I build volume slowly. Never increasing more than 10% from previous week.
I try to continue to train easy EVEN when I am sick or injured.
I try to eat nourishing food. Beets, liver, vegetables, fish, yoghurt.
But I also eat a ton of junk food.
I was a slow division 1 swimmer.
I believe that I have a 1/100 type of talent for swimming.
And a 1/10 type talent for running and cycling.
I am talented. But there are a lot of people in the world who are more talented.
CaptainCanada to a white courtesy phone, please.
I have worked my way up to MOP. IN Chat, I literally finished 49% in my age group (40-44 Male). Is it possible to move up to the front? Ive only been riding a bike since 2017 and only doing IM’s and 70.3’s since 2018. I ask if it is possible because I am not minutes away - I am hours away.
Swim is normal. Bike is really bad and run is really bad even though I stay in power targets. But in training I have no problems.
This is such a high level question and there a million paramater, but there’s a heuristic you may find useful -
In these 4 years of training, what was your avg weekly volume? if its been 15 hours or more than no, you can’t make it to FOP (though you may sill improve). If it was less, than maybe you can.
I have worked my way up to MOP. IN Chat, I literally finished 49% in my age group (40-44 Male). Is it possible to move up to the front? Ive only been riding a bike since 2017 and only doing IM’s and 70.3’s since 2018. I ask if it is possible because I am not minutes away - I am hours away.
Swim is normal. Bike is really bad and run is really bad even though I stay in power targets. But in training I have no problems.
For the most part I don’t like the “here is my story and how I did it” but since you asked…
I started as a MOP (literally 150 out of 300 in my first 70.3) 2 years later I was 1st out of 200 in a full IM. Since then the worst (full IM) I have done is 27th and my last one was 10th. My last 70.3 was a WC qualifier. I have always had a natural talent to run, I can swim but don’t like it (its boring) and I had to learn how to ride/race a bike. I do suffer well. Changes I made from my first MOP race to today:
I bought a good middle level bike.
Got a professional fitting. Big difference maker speed and comfort.
Got a power meter & HR monitor and smart trainer
Got a coach
Stopped pretty much having a life and increased my volume to an avg of 16-17 hours a week.
Eat what ever I want to and a lot of it. Not crap but if that is all I had at the time I ate it.
Learned to nap a lot. Even it was just 30 min long.
Avoided injuries
I’m not sure it was worth it. Sure, I went to a WC but at what cost? Yes, at the time it was a big deal and my friends were like “wow” but…it cost a ton of money, a ton of time, and I had to make sacrifices to do that. I’m now in a place that I have more time but for me I had more fun in the MOP than I did at the FOP.
First, I wouldn’t say your bike and run are “really bad” if you’re smack in the middle, give yourself a little credit! This sport can be brutal when you constantly compare yourself to people at the top. There are always layers. The people at the top compare themselves to the people above them, and so on. Think of the 50% of the people you’re beating, and the 100% of the people who barely exercise or get off the couch.
That being said, I think we need a lot more info on your history to see if you’re close to your potential. What’s your volume been, and how long have you been at it? How consistent? Are you overweight or at an ideal race weight? Do you have the ability to significantly increase your volume/focus to improve your times? Better yet, do you care/want to?
Like others mentioned it also depends on what you mean by “front”: top 20% is a lot different than top 5%. At the tippy top the truth is most people are going to be limited by their average-ish genetics. The true outliers / talents have both the genetics AND put in the volume (over years) to excel at this. Their baseline is higher AND they respond much better to training. Just look at people running sometime, you can usually tell who has talent and who doesn’t once you’ve been around the block a few times. Running and swimming are efficiency sports and you generally have a smaller range to play with to transform. Cycling is the outlier where if you can build a good engine, and get a nice position/equipment, you can and do see people improve there a lot over time. If you have weight to lose, that can be a huge benefit in running.
I have worked my way up to MOP. IN Chat, I literally finished 49% in my age group (40-44 Male).
Is it possible to move up to the front?.
Yes, no, maybe.
Your best bet is to probably figure out what you want to accomplish in this sport, then decide if moving to the FOP is one of those goals, or is a goal.
(although I’d say moving to FOP should not be The Goal. maybe a goal but not The Goal)
ETA: the training is more or less the same. Just bc they are FOP & you are MOP doesn’t mean there is anything special about them. Some tweaks to your training can take you a long way, as most people, especially BOP to MOP, train less optimally than most FOP ime.
So basically ~18-20hrs per week on the hard weeks, ~9-10hrs per week on the easy week?
The very first thing you need to do is qualify what you mean by FOP. Because, that dramatically affects everything else. To you, is FOP is competing for an AG podium? Is it finishing top 10 in AG? Or, is it finishing top 10% in AG?
There is a material, but not a huge difference between top 10 and top 10% in your AG. There is a massive difference between top 10 and top 3. Then, you need to assess where you are now in each discipline relative to your definition of FOP.
At a high-level, to be top 10% AG, you need to be really good in biking or running and good in the other. And, your swim cannot totally suck, but you can get away with some swim mediocrity. To be top 3, you need to be really good in all three.
So basically ~18-20hrs per week on the hard weeks, ~9-10hrs per week on the easy week?
Linking a few points, then I’d say the move to the front for the majority of people comes from a combination of consistent 15+hr weekly training and maintaining that fairly injury free for several years (not a dozen, but 2+). In my first year I was doing 20+ hours and finished in just under 12 hours, which was about MOP in IM Austria. Years later and whilst injury in race week blew it, absolutely all the metrics showed I was on for a 10% finish (not placing, just 10%). For reference I came off the bike with elapsed 6:2X time and had been comfortably running 33km training runs at 4:45/km pace, and the coaches plan was a comfortably sub 4hr run. 70.3 times had dropped from 5:30 to below 4:40 at the end of a huge training block with no taper.
So all out talent does account for some ‘shortcut’ for the minority, and for others sadly you can put in the hours and even do the right thing in those hours, but there’s the other side of the talent see saw… In my case, I’m tall and should by some accounts be a strong swimmer with my natural physical proportions, I work bloody hard consistently in the pool in squads and with additional skill sessions. (3x squad + 1 coached technique session a week), and yet at my very best managed to get from 2:10/100m to 1:40/100m. Spin side is that I find cycling really easy.
FOP- life is built around training.
MOP- training is built around life.
That’s my MOP perception anyway. I’ve seen mop who I used to beat become fop through volume and consistency (4-5 years). I don’t think there are many FOP who wouldn’t agree that they’ve made sacrifices to other aspects of “normal” life to get there.
Blame your parents…
Consistent,honest hard work over time will allow whatever genetics you have to shine…or plod along with the masses.
It is funny because in the weird world of Ultra-tri’s I see MOP age groupers doing mad crazy training hours and posting non-stop on social media about their “epic” training blocks while the guys who win the damned things go about their training quietly,training consistently and with not really much more volume than their Ironman sessions.
It is not just the sheer volume of hours spent training but what you do with those hours that matters.
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15-20lbs weight loss (seriously- my running threshold and ability to cope with heat and humidity are worlds apart)+5 hours/week, mostly added in as doubles at endurance pace (so 15 vs 10 hour weeks)A lot of training intensity spent at tempo/sweetspot/threshold. Basically replacing most of the hammer fest group rides I had been doing a few times/week with solo steady rides/runs. My thresholds crept up slowly but ability to hold that pace for a long time went up forever.Strides/sprints added onto the end of easy runs. I’m naturally speed constrained, so this has made a huge difference in form and muscle recruitment.
Just don’t ask me about swimming- I’m the farthest from FOP there, but I’ve biked/ran my way to the front of most races the last year. Other than 70.3 worlds, where the damn storm left me braking and holding on for dear life on fast downhills (and people who can pair 1:20 runs on that tough course with high 20s swims and solid bikes).
Hang in there until you’re seventy, most of the fast guys will be done by then.
:0)
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Take my advice with a grain of salt… I wouldn’t focus on FOP. Focus on getting better incrementally and see how far you can go. That could be seeing what time you need to be in top 40%, then plan how you can realistically can get there. Or just taking your time and finding how to cut X mins off your time and plan that. See if you can do that. If/when you get there, plan your next goal. As you make progress, you’ll learn what you need to do - lengthen training time, more structured workouts (my personal item of the moment), hire a coach, etc. At some point, you’ll keep making progress till you get there, or learn that to get there will take more than you want to give. Which is fine!