I’m in a fantasy world this morning at work looking at bikes that I can’t afford but that I want oh so badly. Now, I have a few questions:
For 2006, there were 11 models of bikes. Their website has recently been updated with 2007 models and now there are only 5. What’s up with that?
My questions are for the 2006 models since that is what I was looking at last week. Well, what’s the difference between the 11 models? I see 1 is a woman’s model, another is carbon. However, what’s the difference between the Vortex, the Ultimate, and the Firenze. Is there a geometry difference? Are some designed as sprinter bikes and others designed as long ride bikes? Is one of the main differences the shape of the tubes?
I’m just trying to get my head around the special needs and pros and cons of the 11 different models so that I can lust after the correct one.
I believe the Vortex is considered the best bike of the line up for stiffness and weight. The Ghissalo is the lightest.
The Ultimate appears very similar in construction to the Vortex, but uses 3/2.5 titanium in some areas and is thus cheaper.
The Siena offers a little longer head tube, and all 3/2.5 titanium. The Tuscany appears to have the Ultimate’s geometry but again 3/2.5 and so it is a little heavier and less shaped tubes.
Terramo and Firenze are a little heavier frames. Geometry is still the same as the top end racers, though they show the Terramo in a small size and the Firenze in a large so they appear to be more different than they are. Specs are lower
The only frame that appears to be clearly touring/recreational frame is the Blue Ridge.
Besides the frames, the parts specs are also different. Standard full Dura-Ace down to mixed Ultegra groups. Really, the Firenze offers as much in fit as the Ghissalo, it just weighs .7 pound more. Ride quality probably depends on tube shaping and so forth.
Thanks. That’s very helpful. I could never ride the Ghisallo. I’m just way too heavy. One of my old roommates works at a bike shop that sells Litespeeds. He did a demo ride on a Ghisallo and was able to make the chainstays rub on the wheel and he weighs 25 pounds less than me.
From what you’re saying, it seems like if my fantasy world came true and I had the cash, go with a Vortex, but in a more realistic world, an Ultimate would probably be OK for me.
Having just gotten a 2006 Tuscany I’ve done a lot of the research for this.
The Vortex/Tuscany has a longer wheel base and the top tube on the Vortex is diamond shaped I guess to make it more stiff. The down tube on the both is triangular. The longer wheel base is better for longer days on the bike simular to what you get from a stage race.
The Ultimate has a shorter wheel base and the diamond shaped top tube and triangular downtube but the shorter wheel base makes the handling a little more twitchey and is really built for short sprinting type races like Crits.
From what I have been told either bike will cross over to the other domain well.
The Vortex and the Tuscany have the same geometry and I think the price difference is due to the difference in the TI that you point out. Here is the side by side I did from the litespeed page.
I would probably go with an Ultimate or Tuscany then. If I bought a really, really nice road bike, it would be for doing longer rides over shorter crits.
Also, both the Vortex and the Tuscany have the curved seatstays, right? That’s what it looks like from pics.
I did notice that Litespeed has not listed the 2007 Tuscany on the web page so I think that they may be discontinued for 2007 or at least taking a break from it. I don’t really know why, maybe one of the ABG/Litespeed people can answer.
Wow, how heavy are you and your friend? I go about 180lbs and ride a Ghisallo, and the can tell when I flex the frame (under heavy sprints) but have never gotten a tire to rub. Most of the soft feeling of the bike comes from the stock '02 fork. Your buddy would not happen to be Jan Ulrich woudl it?
Also notice that all of the 2007 Road bikes are now built with Compact Geometry.
Now teach me a bit about bike geometries. I know about compact cranksets where you go with smaller chainrings in the front to avoid getting a triple for climbing hills. What does a compact geometry on a bike mean?
Compact Geometry most simply stated means sloping top tube.
Bike companies claim several advantages to this. 1. less frame material in the seat tube/seat stay means a lighter overall frame. 2. Sloping geometry allows more space between your legs while climbing/sprinting. 3. Smaller triangles make stronger tiangles - same sized frames should be stiffer vs. traditional geometry. 4. Compact frames look more aggressive (although this is debateable)
Talk to Herbert about his Ghisallo and flex. I think that he is a little lighter than me and rides an '06 ML
Compact geometry means sloping top tube (as opposed to the conventional geometry where the top tube is parallel to the ground). For comparisons of fit with compact geometry you need to compare “relative” top tube length since the absolute top tube length is affected the degree of slope, which may vary quite a bit between different frames.
The putative advantages of compact geometry are lighter and stiffer frame, but this may be offset by the need for a longer and therefore heavier and more flexible seatpost. Some people will argue that a compact frame has a lower center of gravity and handles differently. Others argue that compact geometry is a way for bike manufacturers to get away with making fewer frame sizes (i.e. S, M, L, XL) and making the fit with wide seatpost and stem length adjustments rather than with small incremental frame sizes.
I’ve never ridden a Ghisallo. My only first hand experience is playing with a frame in a bike shop. I used my hand to flex the chainstays together and I noticed that I could flex them a lot easier than on the Vortex or the Ultimate frames that were there as well. I’ve never ridden a Ghisallo on a road and I’m not saying that it’s a bad bike. I’m just saying that it probably isn’t the bike for me.
These are the road bikes with a sloping downtube from front to rear. This allows a smaller rear triangle which in theory supposedly means a slightly better power transfer to the rear wheels in accelerating and climbing because a smaller triangle should be stiffer. In reality - who knows? Nobody on a compact geometry bike out accelerated or outclimbed Lance on his traditional geometry Trek.
The compact frames would be slightly lighter than a traditional frame due to less frame material but this will be compensated by a longer seat post.
Compact and traditional bike geometries should still be measured the same way. The effective top tube measured horizontal to the ground would still be the same on both bikes, although the actual top tube would be longer on the compact frame because of the slope and the actual seat tube would be shorter.
A good example of a traditional geometry is a Trek. An example of a compact geometry is a Giant TCR or Cervelo Soloist.
The Vortex is certainly meant to be a much stiffer bike, and everyone will tell you that some stiffness has been lost in the Ghisallo in order to make it so light, I just have grown to love the ‘compliance’ of mine. (I am looking for a stiffer fork however).
FWIW ther will be a solid axel between those chainstays to keep them apart when you ride the bke
I really like the 07 lineup. It’s much more straightforward than 06. There were simply too many models in 06 and it would generate questions like yours.
It’s too bad they cut back on tri bikes to just one. Tachyon was a nice attempt to keep titanium in competition with the high end aluminum and low end carbon bikes.
After some consultation with Herbert I recently bought the Litespeed Siena. My intent was to find a good all-around road bike that would serve me well for hammerfests and the occasional crit, but would give a nice ride for most of my riding, which is long solo rides over hilly terrain. I didn’t want a comfort bike but I also didn’t want something like my old CAnnondale that is great for Crits & such but beats me up if I ride it long. I’ve found the Siena to be the best riding road bike I’ve owned to date and I wouldn’t hesitate to race it or ride it in a century. The headtube is a touch longer than the Vortex I believe but I have no problem getting a pretty aggressive amount of drop.
When you say the chainstay flexes when you squeeze it, what do you mean? Do you mean squeezing it where the dropouts are? If so, keep in mind that most people have never had a person come up behind them on a ride and squeeze the rear stays together. Once the wheel is mounted, there is a very strong and stiff axle between the two stays that prevents anyone from squeezing them together. How much you can squeeze them together with no wheel mounted has very little to do with how the bike performs. For what it’s worth, I have owned a Ghisallo (2004) and will get another one this spring. I truly think it the best bike I have ever owned, the most comfortable to ride and of course, the lightest in the world. I regret getting rid of it (stupid, stupid decision). As far as stiffness, it is one metric of how a bike perfroms. If you want to put any bike in the big ring and crank down side to side on a steep hill, you will get flex. If you take into account the way the bike handles road vibration, vertical impact and and making your ride more enjoyable, there is no better bike. To be truthful, I do work for Litespeed, but the answer above is how I feel about the Ghisallo.
I have been looking into a Ti road bike. ABG Lightspeed/Merlin, maybe Moots but LS is at the top of the list at this point. I called a LBS he gave me a price of $4300 for the Vortex and $2500 for Tuscany. This price sounds low to me for the TS. He told me the Ultimate would be DCed in 07. Maybe he’s wrong and it’s the Tuscany that’s being DC?
I’m glad you put up this thread. Lots of bikes in their line to pick from. I want a bike to ride not race. I’m going to put Campy on it (make R10C proud). This bike will be a keeper so I want to do it right.
One more thing, I can only pull up the 06 web site. Could you give me the 07 site…Thanks
