what types of intervals should I be doing? how many times a week? what types of workouts?
Run lots.
Sometimes hard, but mostly easy.
What’s your 5k time now?
I would say that a good combination of 10 x 400’s and 10 x 800’s (more 400’s) (not on the same day) done once weekly should do you for interval work.
Get some hill work - it’ll give you that same resisted effort, but not as hard on the knees, and it switches things up a bit.
Lots of slow mileage. Make sure to warm up and cool down before interval work.
I don’t think that you’re going to need longer repeats. May even want to throw some 200’s in there closer to race day. (10 x 200 on the 75 or something like that, depending on how fast you are).
EDIT I don’t know why I just wrote any of this, I still don’t know what your running is like, or what your history is like /EDIT
Weekly tempo runs (20 minutes a little slower than 10k pace) and VO2 intervals that last about 3-5 minutes (little faster than 5k pace) and plenty of mileage. Don’t push past your goal paces for runs. Get Daniels Running Formula.
You could fill a book with the answer to that question…
http://www.amazon.com/Daniels-Running-Formula-2nd-Jack/dp/0736054928
Probably not what you are after but I dropped 49 seconds off my best 5k (20:17-19:28) with just 4 weeks of walking 80-100km a week so even super low intensity volume is beneficial.
FWIW, here are my golden three workouts. I rotate them (only one per week)
Tempo: 8 miles starting 70 secs slower than 10K pace, speed up every mile by 10 sec.
Strength: 5x1k + 3k time trail (at your 1k pace). Do the 1k repeats first, whatever pace you average for the 1k’s is your goal pace for the 3K time trial.
Speed: 20x200m.
Going back to my HS/College workouts when I ran the 5k in sub 16 min, We had base running (25-35 mi/wk) and then interval training 3 days a week. The intervals were a mix of shorter distance (8 or 10 x 400m with negative splits) and longer (6 x 800m ) and a mix ( “ladder” 200-400-600-800-800-600-400-200) basically all done around 90-95% intensity.
Can you describe your hill run? I’ve been meaning to add them.
What sort of incline are we talking here? A 5 minute hill or a 30 second hill?
What’s your goal?
What’s your PB?
What’s your athletic background?
and most importantly
How much are you willing to work!?
Each has its benefits, I try to include both (for my XC season training).
I think the longer hills, which are obviously done at a slower pace, are going to be better for your overall endurance.
The shorter ones are are done quicker and will help your speed up hills.
Longer hills, I do the bounding type running seen in the raelert brothers video.
Shorter hills, shorten strides, focus on swinging my arms and attacking the last 1/3, then keeping my momentum going.
The longest hill I run is .4 miles, average 9% grade…not sure on the steepest one, but it’s definitely steeper than that, about a twentieth of a mile, a small plateau, than another twentieth.
Ignore Daniels. Read Joe Vigil’s “Road to the Top”, Ron Daws’ “Running your Best” and Tony Benson’s “Run with the Best”. Those books are far better illustrations of developing your talents over your athletic career. Running fast is not a matter of following a schedule and filling in workouts like Daniel’s implies. Sorry. Off the high horse.
Threshold stuff, when in truly full blown 5k prep is a waste of time.
You can start off a workout with a 2k or 3k at tempo before getting to the real stuff, but at no point should a tempo run be the sole workout in the final 6 - 8 weeks leading to a 5k peak race.
There are a couple of reasons:
- Threshold is not specific to the speeds you face in a nasty 5k.
- When looking at threshold, there are a couple of things to remember. The definition is the deflection point at which your blood lactate concentrations decouple (ie, rise faster than) your speed. SO, why is this?? The mechanism of lactate is that it is shuttled back into the muscle cells to be used for aerobic reactions in the mitochondria. The lactate that isn’t able to be sucked in the muscle cells ends up in the blood stream and becomes the devil we all know of. The goals of training lactate threshold should be to improve the body’s ability to suck that lactate back in the cells and tolerate the blood ph that is a result of the leftover stuff.
- The best way to do that is to flood the muscles with lactate repeatedly with an incomplete recovery so the workout becomes that much nastier as the session continues…
I’ve had the most success for 5k runners doing a couple of things mentioned as well as some things not.
- Hill repeats are good for flooding the muscles, building strength and increasing your power (in physics terms).
- 5k paced repeats at both date and goal pace. So, if you can run a 5k today at 5:40 pace and want to run at 5:30 pace by the end of the season or your goal race, you have to practice both.
- Run intervals SUBSTANTIALLY faster than race pace. You might try starting with 5 x 400 VERY hard with a 2:00 recovery and build your way to 8 or 9. We’ve done 400’s on 2:00 (meaning you start a new 400 every 2 minutes, regardless of how fast you went to begin with). If you pace this one wrong, you will suffer. Mile paced workouts work well. 300s on 90 seconds, 200’s on 60 seconds - it all works the same.
- Another nasty way to get at race effort is to do something called “hammers”. For instance, if the workout is 6 x 1000, you can plan to run the last 400 of numbers 3, 5, and 6 substantially faster. This acclimates you to the rises in effort of the race.
There is a solid place in your training scheme for the tempo run, but it isn’t in final 5k preparation.
Since you said “split” I assume you mean the 5k portion of a sprint triathlon?
I like to run intervals, 400m - 1200m at around my 5k pace with fast timed recoveries. For example, I optimistically think I can still run 6 min pace for a 5k, so, today actually, I ran 8x800 @ 3:00 w/ 200m recovery in 1:15. I have also done 400’s with a 30 second 100 recovery or 600’s with a 1 min 200 recovery, and so forth. I like to try to get 6000m-8000m total workout. These kinds of workouts are more about the recovery than the interval. You know you are starting to get fit and strong when you are recovering enough to competently execute the next interval. I find that these types of workouts provide me a good base of strength to run well in triathlons…not so much for the raw speed to do open 5k’s.
Solid point with the split.
I do think my advice holds true for the run in a sprint/olympic.
As always, it’s the bike though…
Solid point with the split.
I do think my advice holds true for the run in a sprint/olympic.
As always, it’s the bike though…
The 10k at the end of a triathlon is run at threshold pace - so all that V02max and Anaerobic work you have prescribed isn’t going to translate nearly as well as targeted threshold work, and half marathon type training. And doing focusing on threshold work will allow you to accumulate more volume than pounding hard intervals, which when traing for a 2 hour endurance event, is critical.
In regards to ignoring tempo/threshold work when training for an open 5k on the track, there are many successful coaches that would vehemently disagree with that take. With that in mind, what you prescribe an athlete trying to run a fast 5k is dependent on their natural speed and current endurance. The differential between their 400, mile, and current 5k time is a good place to start.
I don’t totally disagree with you. BUT, there are plenty of more successful coaches who agree with me. Honestly. I mean this.
Who has Daniel’s coached (I assume that’s where you get it)? His NCAA teams were at a period when competition was EXTREMELY weak. Yes, individual studs were prominent at that period in women’s D3, but team depth was just not there. So, his team results are impressive, but others have done much better. Why isn’t there the Ted Banks training bible??
Teaching his work at the USATF is only a recent incarnation. I know coaches who don’t get it who reference it as their bible. Until they stop my athletes will continue to pound them into the ground.
Many triathletes race sprints at closer to 10k pace, but that still means you have to have the speed to carry through.
There’s a place for the tempo run - in the base and general prep periods. Once you hit specific prep and the competitive period your time is better spent elsewhere. Look back at the most successful coaches of history - Bowerman, Dellinger, Lydiard, Cerutty, Vigil of Adams State, Ron Daws, Jumbo Elliott at Villanova, Lyle Knudson of many places - even current coaches like Al Carius at NCC, Salazar and Vin from Oregon and Ray Treacy from Providence - will say that you fill the tank with tempo runs during the periods I list, but when the time comes to hit it, they are a waste.
You can chart a progression of current times - and gain a curve to pick out training paces based upon the relationship between 400, mile, etc, that can show just how solid an anaerobic capability an athlete has. Once again, I don’t disagree with you. Every athlete has an individual physiology. This is more a revelation of weakness rather than a training guide. It’s not that everyone is capable of a balanced aerobic profile, nor should they shoot for it, but EVERYTHING can be improved.
BUT, lactate clearance and RVLT is still the best predictor of running performance. It is not best attained by tempo runs.
Aerobic training is not best achieved by running threshold and mileage. You need to mix work up to 3k pace into this. You also maintain AND improve the neuromuscular components through drills and higher speed work. Think of it as the aerobic wheel. You have tempo runs/threshold/whatever you want to call it, more intense intervals and mileage in the base and general prep period. As the time goes by you twist the emphasis, but you ALWAYS HAVE ALL 3 COMPONENTS. When you hit specific prep and competitive periods you drop the threshold in favor of higher intensity work. There was a study 10 or 15 years ago that showed that threshold work helped maintain race performance through the season, but nothing since then has repeated the results. Billat, in her high intensity, back breaking interval study had her athletes do longer tempo runs in addition to the high intensity work. Once again, other studies since then have shown this is unnecessary. The days of speed as the candle on the cake are over. The days of building the cake with just threshold and distance have NEVER existed, at least among the higher echelon of coaches. It died in 1910. The idea of using it as marathon and 1/2 marathon staples died with Jim Peters when he hacked 9 minutes off the world record in the early 50’s. Simply put, intensity is the greatest producer of fitness. High mileage, consistent high intensity and well chosen periods of VERY high intensity are the keys to life. Tri, running or not.
The point: scientific as well as experiential training have shown the idea of the tempo during the specific prep period and competitive periods to be wasted when you could hit higher intensity work.
No I haven’t looked at Daniels’ stuff in a number of years. I’m not going to name drop, but I was lucky to train with a group of elite runners for awhile, all of whom have had long, consistent successful careers by following relatively simple, consistent plans w/ weekly progression/tempo/threshold workouts 52 weeks a year. So much of my philosophy is driven by their approach, as well as what I’ve heard through some friends who started working with Canova in the last year, in addition to what worked and what didn’t work for my high school and collegiate teams. When I read your first post, I was going to sarcastically ask if you were stuck in the 90’s (preaching lots of intervals in lieu of volume and threshold work). But I see that you’re saying the same thing I am - that different points in the year require a different qualification of the intensity. Thanks for taking the time to respond in depth. I agree with most everything you’re saying, so I don’t have much to respond with. The issue, and you touched on this, is that true high level training requires a lot of speed, volume and threshold in the right progression, at the right time of year.
One of the reasons that I think threshold work is so critical is that, as I mentioned earlier, it’s larger skipped over by athletes and many high school and college coaches, as well as triathletes. Many of whom structure a training plan with race-pace work w/ too much rest, and the rest easy running. But nothing in between. Secondly, I still feel that it’s much more relevent to triathlon than lactate clearing and V02 max intervals simply because of the demands of the race. This is true both for 30 min guys and 40 min age groupers. Even elites are running closer to their half marathon pace than they are their open 10k. Additionally, the biggest thing about threshold work is that there is no ceiling. It will continue to improve nearly indefinitely for nearly everyone running slower than a 60min half marathon. The same isn’t necessarily true of speed and V02max training which are largely genetically determined, as are individual responses to that training.
That said, I’m not underestimating the importance of speed and race pace work for athletes focused specifically on running. A massively simplified take on what I would have a 5k guy doing is below. I’d be interested to hear your take on it.
Prep (8 weeks) - 2-3 organic progressions; 2-3 days of strides; Long run
Base (4 weeks) - 2 progression *or *tempo *or *threshold interval w/ minimal rest; 2-3 days of strides; Long run (progression biweekly)
Early Season (4 weeks) - 1 progression/tempo/theshold interval w/ minimal rest; 1 day of 3k/5k pace work w/ equal rest; Long run or Race
Race Season (4 weeks) - 1 tempo/threshold-interval w/ minimal rest; 1 day of 3k/5k pace work w/ equal rest, or Lactate Tolerance intervals at mile pace w/ 1.5 times rest, or Lactate Clearing (3-4x400 w/ 4 minrest); Long Run or Race
Champ Season (4 weeks) - 1 day of threshold intervals w/ minimal rest; 1 day of 3k/5k pace or Lactate Tolerance or Lactate Clearing; Long Run or Race
I actually would have found the 90’s approach comment hilarious… Then I would have spouted off how the 90’s and I are EXTREMELY different!! I agree with everything you said - especially the comments on neglecting threshold as well as the structure of interval workouts that allow wayyyy to much rest.
I’m in the same situation as you - I was fast enough to train with some elites, and I have close friends who have run everything between 1:45 for the 800 and 2:11 for the marathon and some coaches with All American (many of them) sprinters 400 and below. Part of my philosophy is shaped through what they did, we did, contact and very in-depth conversations with other coaches as well as the standard book readings… What has influenced me the most is the developmental systems I’ve been a part of through coaching.
From what I’ve seen (through the 1/2 dozen or so programs I’ve been involved with) is the threshold and VO2 mix is the most effective component in developing athletes. I’ve taken athletes a long way in their improvement using that mix with the neuromuscular side tacked on… .
However, I found those athletes had continually rising thresholds but stagnating race times for certain distances.
Part of that is a training error many coaches make (I made it too!!). I firmly believe in focusing on increasing volume on a yearly basis from the previous. I call it progressive periodization. I know I stole the phrase, I just don’t remember where!! Similarly, the longer an athlete has been training, the higher percentage of their work they can tolerate at higher intensities. I hold even college freshmen out of the real nasty clearance work, like 4 x 400 all out with a 7 min rest. For triathletes, they need substantial background before such stuff is attempted if they came to endurance exercise later in life
I found there was a “training to train” period - threshold, infrequent but still incorporated VO2 work, mileage, centered long runs, and then a “training to race” period where race specific and faster than race pace work is done. I think it’s just a problem of threshold-ing around all day. When the time comes to go, you can’t!! That’s when I started putting in the VO2 component earlier and dropping threshold favor of faster work before the championship period. Our periodization is very similar in terms of the length of the phases, but I make a few changes to the types of workouts you do at certain periods.
I think I’m more apt to do a pre-VO2 fartlek every 10 or 14 days in your prep period, replace a tempo with some kind of harder fartlek in the base, and turn the racing season tempo run into a VO2/race pace or faster session. In the championship season, I keep the stress/overload/recovery cycles MUCH shorter and might take it easier on them intensity-wise than you do!!
Fun times, eh?
Oh - one last thing.
I have my athletes work Basic Leg Speed (BLS) year round. Not just strides, but taking the time to do a workout focused on fast running, drills, etc when they are fresh. We do drills at all workouts, but the sprints are having a strong effect.
I’m tossing around the idea of plyos, etc, and their degree of inclusion.
I just took over at a new school, so this may be a time to attempt implementation. If not this year, then next!!
Hmmmm…
intervals on the treadmill. Every last quarter mile bump up the pace by at least 1min/mile faster.