What's a World Championship anyways?

Reading the comments on this forum, it seems to me many STers believe that having more participants at the world championship somehow diminishes the value of the event.

I really don’t see why that would be and I’m curious to hear people’s opinions and arguments to sustain them.

So, what do you think a “World championship” is?

In my mind a world championship needs to satisfy three main requirements:

  1. the winner is awarded the title of “World champion”
  2. the best athletes choose to attend the event
  3. there is a broad and representative participation of the entire “world”

I find that increasing the participants of the IM World Championship doesn’t impact points 1) and 2). Also, it not only doesn’t negatively affect 3) but, if anything, improves the representativeness of the field.

You could bring examples of world championships that have a selection process. However I would argue that the selection process is only made for organisational reasons (limited number of athletes can attend). Also, those processes need complicated systems to find a balance that makes sure conditions 2) and 3) aren’t affected.

If you could have unlimited participants, there would be nothing wrong with everybody attending. In fairness, an event where every single athlete from the entire world attends would be the idealised definition of a world championship.

Take the football (soccer) World Cup. Having a limited number of teams poses a big issue. If you only get the best teams you end up missing the representation of one or more continents. In the worst case scenario you would end up with teams only from Europe and South American. This would end up breaking condition 3).

Therefore, a qualification system is put in place so that each continent is guaranteed some teams.
This is not a perfect outcome since strong teams that could have a shot at a solid performance at the world cup miss the qualification all the time. Notably, Italy won the European championship while missing world cup qualification.

Would doubling or tripling the number of teams at the final phase of the world cup diminish its value? Of course not. In fact, you’d decrease the chance that strong teams are left out and give more opportunities to non Europe/SA teams to participate.

And let’s imagine the number of world teams has increased? Wouldn’t you think about increasing the number of teams participating in the final phase? Would it be so wrong?

Team sports have particularly strict qualification systems so they’re an extreme example.
Individual sports on the other hand don’t have nearly as hard requirements at all. Many sports would typically allow every country to sign up a generous number of athletes with the process delegated to national federation and the number of athletes mostly dependent on the capacity for that federation to finance athletes.

Of note, amateur world champions of the sports triathlon is composed of (running, cycling, swimming) don’t have particularly stringent qualification system. Nor does world Triathlon for their WC distances: it’s quite generous.

Let’s then take the case of the Olympic games - which are different still. They have particularly limited athlete numbers because of the many sports involved. Also, representation is a fundamental characteristic of the OG.
In many sports the main achievement for many is getting to the games in the first place because it’s so hard to qualify. In most sports everybody knows it’s harder to go to the OG than to a WC.

Furthermore, the Olympic committee has decided that to be truly representative there needs to be an equal split of men and women. Just like it would affect 3) if it missed athletes from Africa, it really isn’t representative of the world if there’s more men than women. The Olympic games aren’t fully there yet but they’re clearly getting there. Make no mistake, this brought tremendous changes that saw very strong resistance. One case to note is “Canoe” events which, unlike kayak or rowing, had been a male only sport for almost a century.

And keep in mind that the higher representation doesn’t diminish the value of the OG. In fact, in most sports, Olympic champion is the more important title vs World champion. There’s various reasons why this is but the point is simply that more representation hasn’t diminished that value of the title, nor of the participation at the Olympic games.

Let’s go back to Ironman triathlon. Why would increasing the number of athletes diminish the event? The fastest athletes will be there regardless of how many participants there are. In fact, bigger numbers can improve the competitiveness. It’s a well known fact that qualification is harder at some races than others (and some continents Vs others).

Having more qualifiers improves participation on many levels:

  • athletes may qualify at whatever event is closest to them rather than travelling to whatever event is easiest to qualify at
  • athletes can plan peak fitness at the world championship instead of at the qualifier event (and you can’t have many peaks with Ironman)
  • athletes that would have slightly missed qualification because of poor/unfortunate event selection have more chances to qualify
  • there could likely be more participants from different countries, backgrounds, culture, etc.

Does it matter if the tail of mid+end pack athletes is longer?
In my opinion it doesn’t. The only argument I’ve seen in this context is the annoyance for top athletes having to overcome slower athletes. This is a pretty weak one for a few reasons:

  • it’s a completely separate issue of race start organisation and only happens in the case of wave starts with insufficient time gaps
  • top athletes within the same age group still get equivalent conditions
  • the annoyance of passing a lot of athletes is compensated by the advantage of having a long line of athletes you can legally draft off. This brings faster times, not slower. If anything it makes comparison between different AGs unfair.

What do you think? What’s a world championship?

Ironman is a self-proclaimed world championship (just like the World Series in MLB or the Super Bowl winner being a world champion). Note that it is the Ironman World Championships and not the Ironman Triathlon World Championships. Triathlon World Championship is reserved for World Triathlon (nee ITU).

Under the IOC & IF & NGB structure, an International Federation determines what constitutes a world championship. The member NGB/NSF/NSO send their athletes to said world championship. Any group operating outside the IOC & IF system can proclaim their event a world championship in name only (and may eventually incur the ire/wrath of an IF).

I agree with the point you make that the best athletes (on that day) are going to make the podium, either OA or AG. Nothing diminishes that. Any other commentary about the size of the field and who is entered is all semantics and personal feelings about some elusive idea of exclusivity. One thing is for sure: the IM brand-owner earns more in entry fees with a bigger field. They know what they are doing.

They are a private company. They just declared that Kona is the WC and lets see who will bite. Many did so here you go. You pay them to qualify, you pay them again to race there, you pay your own trip. They use your money to make you feel as if you are at a WC. Any private company can declared their event to be a WC.

It surprised me to learn last week that Ironman worked with World Triathlon (ITU at the time) to have the Ironman World Championships (and Ironman 70.3 World Championships) declared an official, legitimate World Championships and recognized by World Triathlon.

Watch this video… 46mins in with Andrew Messick explaining the World Championship status of Ironman.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwj4llO4T-o

It surprised me to learn last week that Ironman worked with World Triathlon (ITU at the time) to have the Ironman World Championships (and Ironman 70.3 World Championships) declared an official, legitimate World Championships and recognized by World Triathlon.

Watch this video… 46mins in with Andrew Messick explaining the World Championship status of Ironman.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwj4llO4T-o

Thanks for posting that. I had heard that a while back but was getting stumped in my google search to find confirmation.

Ironman is a self-proclaimed world championship //

Originally yes, but not so anymore. Not sure when they got the ok from the world governing body, but for awhile now I believe…

They have always been the defacto world champs, but now it is official. The ITU long distance world champs has been officially the WC, but never the “real” WC, and still isn’t… Half dozen 70.3’s around the world have better and deeper fields than this race…

Didn’t IM try to copyright the actual 2.4/112/26.2 distance? How would ITU even begin to host a WC if they couldn’t legally compete over such a distance?

The other assertion vis a vis World Championships that I don’t understand is the claim that it’s only a world championship for the pro’s. Unless the entire event is one huge mass-start race and winner takes all, this is also a false statement. We willingling accept subdivisions and crown world champions of the divisions. The most obvious is men/women, but also pro/amateur and others. As a group we have decided that some level of subdivision is acceptable, but it is not infinitely so. I am not the world-champion-of-dudes-in-their-40’s-doing-my-job-in-my-geographic-location-and-income-level. I think it’s perfectly acceptable for someone who podiums at Kona to say that “I’m 2nd in the world at IM in 2022”, regardless of pro/AG status. So to say that only the pros are racing in a world championship isn’t true, unless in your eyes the only *true *world champ is the fastest that day, i.e. a pro man.

I also don’t understand how having more people in the event somehow lessens your competition. If you’re at the pointy end, you’re racing the pointy fast folks anyway, it doesn’t matter if there’s say 50% more legacy athletes clocking 14+hr times behind you. If you want high end competition and you’re in the mix to win, those folks will be there anyway.

Didn’t IM try to copyright the actual 2.4/112/26.2 distance? //

Pretty sure you cannot copyright a distance, but you can copyright what it is called. You can bet if they had, there would be no other races that distance out there, which of course is not the case. They went for the 140.6 and 70.3 name copyrights, but they cannot own the actual miles on the road…

And ITU just chose a different distance to be long distance, think they wanted to separate themselves from the ironman distance, which of course was a huge failure. But to be fair, anything was going to fail, unless they were to throw a couple million dollars at it, which is not in their nature. They decided to just stay in their lane. of ITU racing for the most part…

I’m not for or against the increase in numbers.

But I don’t believe that most people believe that simply having more participants diminishes the value. The issue that has not really been brought up yet is diminishment of a real world championship athlete, and what type of athlete it should take to qualify for a “world championship event.”

As someone who has competed on the world championship level in water polo and swimming, and then also qualified for Kona, there is a certain level that is obtained (should be obtained?) by those who compete. It takes years and years of dedication and commitment, strength and hard work, experience and knowledge. I’m not sure of another sport where this isn’t the case, professionally, pro-am, or amateurs.

Of course there will always be the outliers and should be for the insanely athletically gifted. But should people get to show up to a world championship event after competing once in a qualifier, or not even placing anywhere near the front end of their age group, and then qualify?. It diminishes the value of the event to those who have demonstrated the characteristics and qualities of the a world championship athlete.

A world championship event is only represented by the quality of it’s competitors. So the competitor should have the qualities of a world championship athlete…not the qualities of your weekend warrior.

What’s a world championship?

Semantics.

It surprised me to learn last week that Ironman worked with World Triathlon (ITU at the time) to have the Ironman World Championships (and Ironman 70.3 World Championships) declared an official, legitimate World Championships and recognized by World Triathlon.

Watch this video… 46mins in with Andrew Messick explaining the World Championship status of Ironman.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwj4llO4T-o

If by worked with you meant to say went to a tribunal to fight for the right to use the words World Championship then you are right.

These are good points and I agree for the most part.

The main issue I have is that the whole draw in the first place was that Kona was challenging to qualify for. People didn’t do it because it was the WC or because pros race there in and of itself, they did it because it was hard to qualify for in addition to those things. The whole package is necessary, not just the WC or pro part.

It’s an interesting case study because nobody cares about the 70.3 WC despite being somewhat challenging to qualify for, but then again that’s half distance and that holds less meaning to most people.

I think the race will continue to fill up as long as people can afford it (questionable), but the allure will drastically die down.

These are good points and I agree for the most part.

The main issue I have is that the whole draw in the first place was that Kona was challenging to qualify for. People didn’t do it because it was the WC or because pros race there in and of itself, they did it because it was hard to qualify for in addition to those things. The whole package is necessary, not just the WC or pro part.

It’s an interesting case study because nobody cares about the 70.3 WC despite being somewhat challenging to qualify for, but then again that’s half distance and that holds less meaning to most people.

I think the race will continue to fill up as long as people can afford it (questionable), but the allure will drastically die down.

Fact:

If the Saudis came along and created a 140.6 race that was on the same day as the Ironman World Championships and offered 10x the money at every spot and paid deeper into the field, we would learn in one year that the professionals don’t give a sh!t about Ironman, going to the historic grounds of Kona or a brand-name “world championship.”

I’m not for or against the increase in numbers.

But I don’t believe that most people believe that simply having more participants diminishes the value. The issue that has not really been brought up yet is diminishment of a real world championship athlete, and what type of athlete it should take to qualify for a “world championship event.”

As someone who has competed on the world championship level in water polo and swimming, and then also qualified for Kona, there is a certain level that is obtained (should be obtained?) by those who compete. It takes years and years of dedication and commitment, strength and hard work, experience and knowledge. I’m not sure of another sport where this isn’t the case, professionally, pro-am, or amateurs.

Of course there will always be the outliers and should be for the insanely athletically gifted. But should people get to show up to a world championship event after competing once in a qualifier, or not even placing anywhere near the front end of their age group, and then qualify?. It diminishes the value of the event to those who have demonstrated the characteristics and qualities of the a world championship athlete.

A world championship event is only represented by the quality of it’s competitors. So the competitor should have the qualities of a world championship athlete…not the qualities of your weekend warrior.

It is a business. It is about money. They put up a super good show (payed by you). Quality of participants? It is their show and they dictate what that quality is. As long as you pay. If they increase the number of participants and people complain and feel this or feel that but still keep coming and paying, then why not increase the numbers even more? Let them bitch/whine/complain as long as they pay. When the Ironman folks feel they have reached the participant’s tolerance level, they may back off a bit. But there are no indications of that yet. Pay suckers.

We all know it’s a business which runs on money. Nobody is arguing that. I can pack up my bike and gear, head to the ocean tomorrow, and do a full distance Ironman if I really wanted to. But I would never do that as there is no “show” like you said.

The subject of this topic is “What’s a World Championship anyways.” A world championship event should be primarily made up of athletes of elite caliber. When I think of world championship experiences, Kona participants over the past decade, and my experience, I think about what it takes to make it to the “top.” This doesn’t ring true anymore when the participants are watered down.

As others said, in International Sports only Nationals or International Sport Federatons can organize a Championship or a World Championship.

Ironman organize its own Worldchampionship because two main reasons:

  • they f*cking organize the Ironman WC before the international triathlon even exists (ITU was created in 1989).
  • it represent that there is a final event where people qualified in other international ironman events could win the Ironman “champion” title.

I think that it is a game of two, athletes must be confident in their sport federations and rely in their championships, but federations must be confident organizations which work to make their championships in a reference of the best performances.

I mean: Ironman are NOT the only Long Distance Triathlon events. But even if the are Official Triathlon LD Championships… I really believe that Ironman races have more performance level than ITU Continental races. And you can see:
Ironman WC Hawaii with more than 90 countries represented!!! have an international acceptance, and a better performance level than any ITU LD championships. In fact ITU WC normally are “local” races where more than 60-80% are from the local country.

So who is faulty? Ironman to organize their own WC? the athlete to provide the value to Ironman or ITU not to provide the athlete what they deserve.

That’s interesting.
So does the IOC have a legal instrument for claiming world championship in every sport?

That’s interesting.
So does the IOC have a legal instrument for claiming world championship in every sport?

it depends of the country regulation,

in Spain by law only National Federation IF EXIST can organize a so called National Championship or been able to organize an International Championship.

You can organize a Championship of a sport or game that it is not covered by any national federation.