I just started using the Performance Management Chart, and was wondering how the whole CTL thing works.
Does a higher CTL mean better fitness?
What does your CTL look like while training for Ironman or Ironman 70.3?
I am 10 weeks away from my third 70.3, and my CTL is at 65.2, don´t know if that is any good, but it has been progressing steadily since I started formally training for the race, which is 6 weeks ago.
Also, what TSB number would you consider optimal for racing? 5, 10, 15?
I just started using the Performance Management Chart, and was wondering how the whole CTL thing works.
Does a higher CTL mean better fitness?
What does your CTL look like while training for Ironman or Ironman 70.3?
I am 10 weeks away from my third 70.3, and my CTL is at 65.2, don´t know if that is any good, but it has been progressing steadily since I started formally training for the race, which is 6 weeks ago.
Also, what TSB number would you consider optimal for racing? 5, 10, 15?
Sorry for the vague answers but your PMC is for you.
I aim to hit 110 for a HIM, with TSB +10 that looks to be the sweetspot for me. Generally build slowly over 20ish weeks so that TSB is starting to drop off in the last couple of weeks so it doesn’t take too much of a taper to put me positive.
HOWEVER you need to also keep in mind what that CTL is made of, hammering out 60s intervals won’t prep you for a Ironman. 6hr Z1 rides won’t prep you for a Sprit.
everything is complete variable for each individual. You should read the support pages explaining the PMC.
I remember Joe Friel (I think) saying his KQ athletes were averaging around 110. However he also says that a combined CTL for all 3 sports is not sufficient detail. You need a PMC for each discipline. When I did this for me it opened my eyes and I changed the structure of my training and in particular my taper…
I would also say that using the CTL and TSB exclusively is not necessarily the best way to go, pay attention to how you feel as well and I would always err on the side of more rest prior to the race. My last IM I raced with a CTL of around 110 and a TSB of +32… it was my best race yet
I remember Joe Friel (I think) saying his KQ athletes were averaging around 110. However he also says that a combined CTL for all 3 sports is not sufficient detail. You need a PMC for each discipline. When I did this for me it opened my eyes and I changed the structure of my training and in particular my taper…
I would also say that using the CTL and TSB exclusively is not necessarily the best way to go, pay attention to how you feel as well and I would always err on the side of more rest prior to the race. My last IM I raced with a CTL of around 110 and a TSB of +32… it was my best race yet
So had did you change the structure of your training and taper if you don’t mind sharing?
I’m less than 2 weeks away from my 70.3
CTL as of yesterday 5/24:
CTL (swim, bike, run) - 106.4
CTL (bike, run) - 82.7
CTL (swim) - 24.3
CTL (bike) - 47.4
CTL (run) - 35.3
Goal is ~4:15
.
I remember Joe Friel (I think) saying his KQ athletes were averaging around 110. However he also says that a combined CTL for all 3 sports is not sufficient detail. You need a PMC for each discipline. When I did this for me it opened my eyes and I changed the structure of my training and in particular my taper…
I would also say that using the CTL and TSB exclusively is not necessarily the best way to go, pay attention to how you feel as well and I would always err on the side of more rest prior to the race. My last IM I raced with a CTL of around 110 and a TSB of +32… it was my best race yet
So were they at 110 because they were fast or were they fast because they were at 110?
That’s the thing with Friel…unintentional misdirection at it’s best
As TSS (and therefore CTL) is based on IF surely actual speed / power doesn’t matter? If you make sure your your FTP etc are correct the TSS automatically takes this into account… or am I missing something?
It depends if you are looking at all 3 disciplines or individual disciplines for sure. Swimming (IMO) can REALLY sway your CTL and make it look like you are super fit, when the run or bike could be lagging.
The way that I use PMC I’m aiming to hit 120 leading into my first Half of the year and will be ~4:25. Ultimately aiming to peak +/- 130 for Ironman Canada which is why my HIM number is so close to Ironman.
TSB depends on how well you manage fatigue and if the race is an A, B, C race etc. For my HIM I’ll go into the race close to -15 and will go into Ironman closer to +5/10.
But that doesn’t say anything about what volume or TSS “you” should be doing.
110 is a lot for some people and normal for others. Between the Bike and Run I’m 120 to 140 and I only do Halfs. I know people that are faster than I am that are higher and some that are lower. I will be dialing it back some this year because I’m not able to sustain that load any more and improve.
The fact is that “you” need to do what is sustainable for “you” while stimulating improvement. It could be 65 or 110, don’t target a number.
It depends if you are looking at all 3 disciplines or individual disciplines for sure. Swimming (IMO) can REALLY sway your CTL and make it look like you are super fit, when the run or bike could be lagging.
The way that I use PMC I’m aiming to hit 120 leading into my first Half of the year and will be ~4:25. Ultimately aiming to peak +/- 130 for Ironman Canada which is why my HIM number is so close to Ironman.
TSB depends on how well you manage fatigue and if the race is an A, B, C race etc. For my HIM I’ll go into the race close to -15 and will go into Ironman closer to +5/10.
Out of interest how many hours a week do you need to do to get a CTL of 130?
Personally for me…14 to 17 depending on the week
.
I wondered about this a lot too and have come around to pretty much the same conclusion as others on this thread: it’s highly variable from person to person.
I’ve only been racing with power and using Training Peaks for two seasons and was really surprised to hear how high different people’s CTLs are. The past two years my CTL going into Halfs has been between 60-70 (swim, bike, run) which has been getting me across the line in the 4:30s. This season I’m building toward a Full and I started off thinking I should target a CTL of 110-120, but now I’m just focusing on consistent training and staying healthy, my CTL will end up wherever it ends up. Then I’ll have a new reference specific to me that I can use to help guide my training for next year.
It all depends on if I’m focusing on TSS/Intensity or volume, but I can hit 130 on 12-13 hours a week of structured training with a solid amount of hard swimming/riding.
I’m less than 2 weeks away from my 70.3
CTL as of yesterday 5/24:
CTL (swim, bike, run) - 106.4
CTL (bike, run) - 82.7
CTL (swim) - 24.3
CTL (bike) - 47.4
CTL (run) - 35.3
Goal is ~4:15
How / where are you breaking out the CTL for the individual disciplines?
*edit - Never mind, found it.
Shameless Plug
My book, Triathlon 2.0 - Data Driven Performance Training, covers all this. Gives you a range, based on your age, gender and goals for the event. I would encourage you to read it, as it gives ranges for each of your questions, for both half and full Ironman. You can find it on Amazon, or at my website.
I just started using the Performance Management Chart, and was wondering how the whole CTL thing works.
Does a higher CTL mean better fitness?
What does your CTL look like while training for Ironman or Ironman 70.3?
I am 10 weeks away from my third 70.3, and my CTL is at 65.2, don´t know if that is any good, but it has been progressing steadily since I started formally training for the race, which is 6 weeks ago.
Also, what TSB number would you consider optimal for racing? 5, 10, 15?
I’ve read your book Jim, and I’ll vouch for it. It provides guidance to this question for elites, AG top 20%ers, MOPs, and finishers. It really helped me rationalize my past performances and will be a great tool moving forward to determine pacing and set expectations.
Shameless Plug
My book, Triathlon 2.0 - Data Driven Performance Training, covers all this. Gives you a range, based on your age, gender and goals for the event. I would encourage you to read it, as it gives ranges for each of your questions, for both half and full Ironman. You can find it on Amazon, or at my website.
I just started using the Performance Management Chart, and was wondering how the whole CTL thing works.
Does a higher CTL mean better fitness?
What does your CTL look like while training for Ironman or Ironman 70.3?
I am 10 weeks away from my third 70.3, and my CTL is at 65.2, don´t know if that is any good, but it has been progressing steadily since I started formally training for the race, which is 6 weeks ago.
Also, what TSB number would you consider optimal for racing? 5, 10, 15?
I’ll pick up a copy if you have a discount. 
I’ll pick up a copy if you have a discount.
Quite honestly, the cheapest place to buy it is Amazon. They sell it cheaper than I do even! But if you want an autographed copy, you can find it here: coachvance.com/store/books