What would YOU focus on most

Triathlon Forum
1

I will make this first part short, for all those with a quick answer, but add more for those who like the depth…
Just finished my first “real” race season, and could really use some advice for winter training. Basically I am last out of the water (33-36 minutes), end up in the middle of the pack after the bike (1:12-1:22), and MAYBE the front of the MOP by the finish (48-50 minutes) = 2:49 olympic distance

what would YOU work on most??
Thanks

I learned to swim last year by watching YouTube. I really feel that I have a good stroke, but glide and cruise the same pace all the time (2:00-2:10/100m). Its hard for me to pick up the pace without burning. I see people just cruising by me all the time at the pool and they dont even look like they are trying. I kick very little. I’m 122Lbs @ 5’7" so I got NO muscle. I cycle around 19-20MPH but would love to be around 23MPH. I can run an open 10k in 43:xx but am about 1min/mile slower off the bike. My current 2012 individual time goals are a sub-30 swim, 60min 40k ride, and a 40min 10k run. Is any of this realistic? I train 3 disciplines/week at around 10-12 hours/week. Could anyone share their vast knowledge on how THEY would break up their time or focus for the winter-spring?

I would really appreciate ANY feedback, even if its some good ol’ ST trash talk.

Thanks,

2

Train all three sports. Get a swim coach to evaluate your stroke, and join masters swim if you can. Avoid running a marathon. If your target distance is Olympic triathlons, work on your 5K/10K run speed. Good luck!

3

swim, swim, swim…i believe your swimming sets the pace to your race. I have noticed that when i come out of the water in towards the middle or back of the pack I tend to have a not so decent race, but if i’m im out front I do much better. Maybe its mental, but keep building up swim speed and cut down that time.

4

10hrs is a good bit over the winter. if you hit 10 quality hrs per week, you’ll make gains.
i’d do at least 3 swims. what’s your current volume? check out a swim coach for a couple lessons. so there’s 3hrs(ish).
4hrs on the bike. i’d look to hammer at least a couple of these per week. hammer 2. then do 2 others and run off the bike to save some time.
3-4hrs to run. break it up to over 4-5 days. then once you can handle adding more, then add another short day. maybe 3 30min runs, 1 or 2 45 mins, and a 60 minute run. get in some fartleks and tempos here.
you have a lot you can improve on. power meter? run some 5k and 10k over the holidays. lots of turkey trots and reindeer runs. blow up a few times, it won’t hurt you as this point.
how old are you?

5

I can run an open 10k in 43:xx but am about 1min/mile slower off the bike.

Seems like a lack of bike fitness. Yes, as others have said you need to work on the swim (get your stroke fixed and you’ll be doing 1:40-1:30 100s in “no time”). However, a full minuter per mile slower off the bike tells me you’re hammering to get that 19-20mph. In an olympic distance race I loose maybe 10-15 seconds per mile off the bike.

Are you using a tri bike in races?

10-12 hours a week? Is it structured or just whatever you feel like doing?

Do you have a goal time in mind? If so, create a system to make that happen.

At 5’7", 122 you obviously don’t have a body mass issue (I’m 6’2 and bobble between 180 and 195. I once got down to 170 but it didn’t make me any faster).

Just keep at it. Ride your bike a lot, master swim, and run enough so you don’t hurt yourself. Good luck.

6

Work most on the swim, then the bike. Leave the run training as-is and you will see your run times in races improve slightly as you drain yourself a bit less in the first two events.

Get some form instruction on the swim. Some good coaching should allow you to get 5 min. faster.

For the bike, saddle time matters. As you ride more, you will naturally improve. Riding with a group will add some training tips and de-facto intervals to your training.

7

I’m very close to your current numbers (slower swimming, about the same cycling, a bit slower running). I have the same open time trial goals, and probably about the same amount of training time. I don’t have any advice to give, but hopefully we will both make some significant progress towards our (shared) goals this winter.

8

Swim lessons and time on the bike. Both. But make the bike count. A couple rides per week should not be comfortable. Borrow a powermeter if you can to see what it’s like to hold a steady power throughout intervals. Or use speed on the trainer if that’s all you got. It’s easy on the trainer to let RPE “trick you” into easing off because it starts to feel hard.

Keep maintenance runs in the plan until it get closer to season start then, balance more out with bike/run.

Oh yeah, you do this in fall/winter, not winter/spring if you want to hit those goals next year.

9

Hire a swim coach or join a swim club over the winter. I too learned to swim as an adult and we folks need practice, practice, and then way more practice.
The off season is great for a BIT weight training the lower & core body for better bike speed, also do some cross training in winter sports , that way you won’t be mentally tired of SBR next summer

10

2:49 OLY is pretty good for your first season. I would highly recommend buying a powermeter to improve cycling. Powertaps have been coming down in price, especially the used wired ones. Then you should read the Flanagan post about raising your FTP. As others have said, find someone to coach your swimming stroke. A good masters program might be able to do this, or private coaching. Do what works for you already for running, but run a couple of times a week off the bike. And remember to have fun.

11

swim and run.
Your bike time will improve with increased run training and cardio.

12

Duffy-
Yes I have a nice Felt B2R and yes, I am hammering as hard as I can for that speed. By the time I get off the bike, my legs are SO beat, I can run with my mouth closed because thats as fast as I can make them move. I did a ton of bricks without much improvement. My current shcedule for fall/winter is …
M-rest
T- swim & bike or weights
W-run
R-swim & bike or weights
F-rest
S&U- long bike then short hard run
short bike then long run
one swim session

There is only ONE masters swim in the city I live in the East Bay, California and its at a bad time. I am looking for someone to hire to help me for a few sessions.
Thank you for the advice

13

bmeer-

10 hours is about as much as I can currently handle without frying out. Not exactly sure why, but If I go over 15/week, I just miss a few sessions and sleep all afternoon. I work 55 hours a week VERY early AM, but thats a sissy excuse… I just get tired a lot, but eat heathly.
3 hours swimming/week is about where I’m at currently and will be going to 4 soon for Oceanside training, and I want to kick ass at the San Diego ITU WCS race. Im not running due to a bad toe nail, so my second focus is completely the bike and weights. Thanks for the advice, good idea about the fun sprint runs just to stay on top of it. Oh… and I’m 31 years old.

14

You should do a lot of weight training over the winter to build up your leg strength so your legs won’t be so trashed after the bike. Lots of squats and lunges.

You have a good bike so you should lighten your bike up as much as possible.

15

Look. You’re not a pro. You do this for fun.
Do whatever you enjoy the most.
If you’re not crazy about swimming- I can’t imagine spending 10hrs a week in the pool.
Heck- I like swimming and I wouldn’t spend that much time in the water.

do as much swimming, biking and running as you enjoy and can make time for, and have fun at the races.
I’d expect that your overall time will be inversely proportional to how many hours of SBR training you put in every week, regardless of whether it’s S, B or R. You could make sizeable strides in each of them.

16

faced with your situation, I’d look at my swimming as the low hanging fruit. I’d find someone knowledgable to help me learn to swim. The way I figure it ~$300 of stroke lessons will give you 2-4x or more the time savings that a $1000 disc wheel will give you. $300 to go X faster or $1000 to go X-Y faster. S

Step 1 find a good stroke coach
Step 2 swim. A lot
Step 3 run. a lot

Bike fitness is the easiest the build of the three sports. Swimming is the most technical.

17

OK. Get the swim technique fixed. You have all winter to work on it. Get a coach or something. Check out this site…

http://swimsmooth.com/

It helped me more than my masters coach. I wouldn’t worry about swimming hard right now. Get your technique down. When you’re swimming and you get tired your stroke will fall apart. Stop. Take a rest. Slow down. Don’t push through all sloppy. You’ve got time. Hell, you could just do swimming only for a month if you want. Last year at this time I put my bike in the garage and didn’t touch it for 10 weeks. No shit. Just didn’t feel like putting on the bibs. That being said…

Bike a lot. If you have a road bike and it’s more comfy than the tri bike use it. If not, use the Felt. Ride really fcking hard once or twice a week. Ride easy two or three times a week. When you ride hard, ride really fcking hard. When you ride easy, ride easy. One long one. If you ride on a trainer get a HRM or power meter and learn how to use it. Do hard intervals on the trainer (2x20min, 4x5min, whatever). I use heart rate (because I don’t have a power meter).

I do one or two bricks (10-20 minutes run off the bike) *per year *in training. This is done a week or so before the first race of the season just to remind my legs what it feels like. The only thing I get out of doing a bunch of bricks is injury. That’s just me. If you like doing bricks or your time is crunched and that’s what you have to do then go ahead.

FWIW: My last oly was my fastest at 2:18:xx (not super fast, not super slow). I’m 41 years old. My first tri was on the same course 3 years ago and I went 2:50:xx. I’ve never used a coach (except master swim). I’ve used the plan below as a guide but did not follow it as written. In the off season (fall, winter, early spring) I use no plan. I wake up and do whatever I feel like doing as long as I do something that has a purpose.

This year I started “using” this plan at about week 20.

http://opentri-training.com/free/intl/index.html

I’m just one guy. I’m sure I could do things better and get faster. Maybe I will, maybe not. I do this for fun. Others might have more specific workouts and that may be better for you. I work better from just a framework.

Have fun. Don’t worry too much about it.

18

I’ll give it a shot:

Consistancy - Put together a basic week that your life gives you and just get out the door day after day, week after week, month after month . . .

Specificity - Your goals sound triathlon specific (PR an Olympic next season) so use your time to swim, bike and run.

Frequency - When putting together your basic week try to increase the frequency of your workouts while maintaining consistancy (avoiding injury, burnout, divorce, job loss, etc). Looking at your draft week a few things jump out. Generally speaking a well designed training week will build in recovery and you shouldn’t need a rest day so think about doing something on Mondays. Tuesdays and Thursdays you have “bike or weights”. Keeping in mind the principles of specificity and frequency, how about dropping the weights as an option and then tacking on a short/easy run after the bike?

Swim - I’m not a fish so I will stand corrected but I would suggest that you focus on technique (coaching, Masters, Finding Freestyle, etc). Once you’ve got passable technique and in particular because you sound time limited, I would make short/hard sets your priority.

Bike - Work on raising your FTP. Do a forum search if you need more details. Think really hard before you head out for a LSD ride that in one workout will take up 1/3 of your entire training week.

Run - Run as frequently as you can as easy as you can and slowly and safely increase duration. Search for BarryP’s 3-2-1 plan. In looking at your draft week I would suggest you move your long run so you can run it “fresh”.

**Adaptation - **It’s my limited understanding that full adapation to a training stress can take approximately 4 weeks (plus or minus). So, give your body time to adapt and don’t be in a big hurry to increase your training load.

Other - I think the real key is consistancy and specificity but also put some thought into body composition, race equipment, race nutrition and race execution.

Hope you find something helpful in all of the above.

Good luck,
Bill

19

I had a hard time improving my swim but I was able to run faster and bike faster with much less investment.

I would recomend to keep improving what you are already reasonable at by intensity and frequency.

For swimming; make sure that you find a really good coach (otherwise; you will be wasting a lot of time and will be frustrated later :()

20

My current shcedule for fall/winter is …
M-rest
T- swim & bike or weights
W-run
R-swim & bike or weights
F-rest
S&U- long bike then short hard run
short bike then long run
one swim session

my fall/winter plan looks a lot like yours
m- ez run, swim
t - swim, bike 1h(sufferfest)
w - run (track)
r - swim, bike 1h(a. coggans 90/90/90)
f - rest
s - swim, long run (90’)
u - long bike (3h, outdoor), swim

basically its 1 day ez - 3 days hard - rest - 2 days hard - repeat over and over
at the moment my running is only 3 days per week, but i am in maintainance mode. running is my strength (open 5k 16:25) and i dont worry too much about it right now. i think your focus should lie in swimming then bike then run. as others already said, the main point is consistency. if all you can handle is 10h, then do 10h. but do them consistently week after week. dont try to hit 15h one week, and only 5 the next week.