What will help me get a more aggressive bike position?

Triathlon Forum
1

Afternoon all,

Just wondering what would help me get a more aggressive position on the bike, time spent in that position and getting use to it or working on my flexibility… or both?

As we stand, I’ve got my aero bars “jacked” up with 25mm spacers (I have ZIPP aero bars) and my back is arched quite some bit with my head well above my shoulder line. This is the position I used for my Ironman last summer and it was fairly comfortable.

That being said, I’m planning to race a half next summer and feel like I could get away with getting a bit more aggressive and possibly dropping those spacers, but last time I was riding like that, my back would absolutely kill me.

I’m not flexible at all, which is something I can definitely work on. Would this alone go a long way? Or do I suck it up and practice riding more aggressively?

Has anyone been through this?

Cheers!
Phil

2

What do you mean by “aggressive”?

3

What do you mean by “aggressive”?

Sorry, lower in the front end, flatter back.

4

Better mobility…there are lots of videos on YouTube …mobility for runners, swimmers, bikers, triathletes…you can use that or do some Yoga. I had a problem with my right shoulder and one week of Yoga helped it greatly. I was pretty shocked at how quickly it got better. You might want to stay away from the hot Yoga beause that quickly becomes another workout and maybe you don’t want another workout to fatigue you even more than you already are (not to mention effects from the heat and sweat loss).

5

For what it is worth, I don’t do yoga. However, I ride in an extremely aggressive position (not my words). For me it came down to training at home or outside in that position. The thing is if you don’t use a particular muscle group and then heavily use it for a long duration such as for half-ironman you’re bound to have pain. Only by practicing in that position and having those muscles engage over time will the experience become less painful.

Here is my position at 2018 Ironman 70.3 Santa Rosa:

IMG_6303.jpg

6

Afternoon all,

Just wondering what would help me get a more aggressive position on the bike, time spent in that position and getting use to it or working on my flexibility… or both?

As we stand, I’ve got my aero bars “jacked” up with 25mm spacers (I have ZIPP aero bars) and my back is arched quite some bit with my head well above my shoulder line. This is the position I used for my Ironman last summer and it was fairly comfortable.

That being said, I’m planning to race a half next summer and feel like I could get away with getting a bit more aggressive and possibly dropping those spacers, but last time I was riding like that, my back would absolutely kill me.

I’m not flexible at all, which is something I can definitely work on. Would this alone go a long way? Or do I suck it up and practice riding more aggressively?

Has anyone been through this?

Cheers!
Phil

Personally I would lower it a fee cms for a couple weeks or more Then a couple more and so on

7

Thanks guys! I’ve attached a pic - hard to tell cause I’m on a bit of an angle but I also have my stem slightly inclined, I could set that back strait initially (and pull the pads back the get that same reach) and then work my way down.

20180815_152109.jpg

8

It takes practice. Just went through an aero tuning session with a guy named Paraic McGlynn at Cyclologic here in Scottsdale. The two main things I learned were to get more aero it’s important to try to get longer. And to hold an aggressive position (relative to you) takes an amazing amount of core strength. It takes practice.

9

Without seeing your position to understand your particular limiters (edit: you posted your pic while I was typing this up), here are the main problems I see with athletes unable to get into a lower, more aerodynamic position:

  1. Make sure you have a saddle that allows you to sit comfortably on it with your pelvis rotated forward, both in the type of saddle and that it’s not too high. If you have to rotate your pelvis to the rear in order to sit on it, then all your drop on the front end has to be achieved via arching your back. This limits the amount of drop you can achieve, is bad for your back, isn’t very aerodynamic, and makes it harder to engage glutes.

  2. This is going to sound controversial on slowtwitch, but don’t just automatically slam your seat forward in order to “open your hip angle.” This puts a lot of weight on your arms and shoulders when in an aero position, and for many people the only way to maintain this position for any decent period of time is by raising the front end (taking a bit of pressure off the arms & shoulders again). “Balancing” a position from a fore-aft perspective isn’t just for road fits, it’s applicable to tri and TT as well, just with different considerations.

  3. Unless you have some kind of injury or condition, most people are flexible enough to get into a low, aerodynamic position. I ride with the top of my helmet roughly in line with the highest point of my back, but I can’t touch my toes most days. So stretching probably isn’t a great use of your time (although there are other good reasons to stretch). Most people run into problems putting out power in that low position, which isn’t necessarily about flexibility as much as mobility and core strength. By “core strength” I don’t mean being able to do a bunch of situps, I mean being able to engage the various muscles in the trunk, hips, shoulders and legs such that you’re able to comfortably hold a low position for the required duration. By “mobility” I mean ensuring that every joint is moving optimally such that you’re not putting more stress on an adjacent joint (and it’s supporting musculature) and creating a weak link.

  4. Don’t try to hold an aero position with your forearms angled down, as viewed from the side.

After this there are potentially other limiters that I see less often (crank length, old injuries, etc.), but these are the big things to consider in my opinion.

10

Without seeing your position to understand your particular limiters (edit: you posted your pic while I was typing this up), here are the main problems I see with athletes unable to get into a lower, more aerodynamic position:

  1. Make sure you have a saddle that allows you to sit comfortably on it with your pelvis rotated forward, both in the type of saddle and that it’s not too high. If you have to rotate your pelvis to the rear in order to sit on it, then all your drop on the front end has to be achieved via arching your back. This limits the amount of drop you can achieve, is bad for your back, isn’t very aerodynamic, and makes it harder to engage glutes.

  2. This is going to sound controversial on slowtwitch, but don’t just automatically slam your seat forward in order to “open your hip angle.” This puts a lot of weight on your arms and shoulders when in an aero position, and for many people the only way to maintain this position for any decent period of time is by raising the front end (taking a bit of pressure off the arms & shoulders again). “Balancing” a position from a fore-aft perspective isn’t just for road fits, it’s applicable to tri and TT as well, just with different considerations.

  3. Unless you have some kind of injury or condition, most people are flexible enough to get into a low, aerodynamic position. I ride with the top of my helmet roughly in line with the highest point of my back, but I can’t touch my toes most days. So stretching probably isn’t a great use of your time (although there are other good reasons to stretch). Most people run into problems putting out power in that low position, which isn’t necessarily about flexibility as much as mobility and core strength. By “core strength” I don’t mean being able to do a bunch of situps, I mean being able to engage the various muscles in the trunk, hips, shoulders and legs such that you’re able to comfortably hold a low position for the required duration. By “mobility” I mean ensuring that every joint is moving optimally such that you’re not putting more stress on an adjacent joint (and it’s supporting musculature) and creating a weak link.

  4. Don’t try to hold an aero position with your forearms angled down, as viewed from the side.

After this there are potentially other limiters that I see less often (crank length, old injuries, etc.), but these are the big things to consider in my opinion.

Thanks for all of this man! This is actually really helpful. I don’t even come close to touching my toes - ever, and thought maybe this was limiting my ability to get lower (or stay that low).

11

I would suggest trying to get an aerodynamic position, rather than lower.

12

Afternoon all,

Just wondering what would help me get a more aggressive position on the bike, time spent in that position and getting use to it or working on my flexibility… or both?

As we stand, I’ve got my aero bars “jacked” up with 25mm spacers (I have ZIPP aero bars) and my back is arched quite some bit with my head well above my shoulder line. This is the position I used for my Ironman last summer and it was fairly comfortable.

That being said, I’m planning to race a half next summer and feel like I could get away with getting a bit more aggressive and possibly dropping those spacers, but last time I was riding like that, my back would absolutely kill me.

I’m not flexible at all, which is something I can definitely work on. Would this alone go a long way? Or do I suck it up and practice riding more aggressively?

Has anyone been through this?

Cheers!
Phil

Personally I would lower it a fee cms for a couple weeks or more Then a couple more and so on

Stop thinking “aggressive” and start thinking “appropriate”. Rotate at the hips (saddle selection), relax down into the aerobars (cockpit distance), shorten your crank (ease of pedaling in a lower position), and do it all at once. When you attend to all the necessary ingredients,dropping your front end a cm or two at a time for a long period of time isn’t “gradually adapting”, it is “riding a shitty position until you decide to ride a good one.” - Rappstar.

Mobility and core strength probably have nothing to do with it. They simply are not limiters for nearly everyone.

RIDE the position. It will require a small to moderate amount of work and adaptation. Touch points, neck, head discipline etc. But truly world class positions are well in reach of far more riders than actually have them, and in reach of far more riders than believe they could have one.

And stop with the friekin’ 'aggressive". It’s not aggressive; it’s correct, orthodox, appropriate, and entirely possible.

13

For what it is worth, I don’t do yoga. However, I ride in an extremely aggressive position (not my words). For me it came down to training at home or outside in that position. The thing is if you don’t use a particular muscle group and then heavily use it for a long duration such as for half-ironman you’re bound to have pain. Only by practicing in that position and having those muscles engage over time will the experience become less painful.

Here is my position at 2018 Ironman 70.3 Santa Rosa:

your saddle is too high

14

How can you tell?

15

with my eyes

i’m being slightly tongue in cheek, but yea, your saddle is on the high side.

16

with my eyes

i’m being slightly tongue in cheek, but yea, your saddle is on the high side.

He’s probably correct. And when you drop it you will be even more limited by being over-cranked.

17

What saddle are you on and what crank length are you running?

Just by the crappy photo, your cranks look too long.

18

And your cranks are too long
.

19

I would suggest trying to get an aerodynamic position, rather than lower.

Perfect. QFT

20

What saddle are you on and what crank length are you running?

Just by the crappy photo, your cranks look too long.

175, but it’s got my power meter :frowning: maybe I could switch it over to the road bike and try lower cranks on the tri. Is swapping out lower cranks a game-changer, or it typically helps?

And the saddle is Fizik Tritone.