I’ll tell you that a lot of migrant kids aren’t in school here, they’re selling chocolate on corners or being used as props while their parents panhandle.
In my 2 trips to Springfield this month i did not see an odd amount of panhandlers or chocolatesellers (1 would be odd to me, we don’t really do that here), and certainly not Haitian panhandlers. But admittedly, i did not drive the whole town.
That doesn’t count. /p
1 Like
Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine is deploying the Ohio State Highway Patrol to monitor schools in the city of Springfield after they received 33 bomb threats since late last week, he said at a news conference Monday.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/16/us/springfield-ohio-closures-threats/index.html?cid=ios_app
These two morons do more damage than any book still in the library.
2 Likes
Explain to me like I’m a Springfield Elementary student what threatening me with explosions does to get brown people out of my town.
1 Like
The Harris/Walz campaign needs to interview parents and students in Springfield and let them talk about the fears and dangers they now have because of trump’s lies.
“We know trump lies much of the time, but let’s hear from some children who suffered because of it. These children aren’t affected by drag queens reading books, or another student getting a sex change, but they are affected by bomb threats because Donald Trump lied.”
I specifically bring this to you as I understand you have professional experience with immigration and the law.
Windy has an anecdote, you have an anecdote, hell I could even throw in my anecdotes for Denver and Washington DC about folks working the streets for cash and how they weren’t visible 2 years ago.
The subject line of this thread is what to do, so let’s see if we can dig up some answers to that.
Documented versus the undocumented immigrants.
If we are talking Haitians, can we reasonably expect the federal government to have a recent database that lists nearly all as they are documented and known? My take is we should. How much do we require of the migrant to continually inform the database manager? Fear, anger and resentment is allowed to fester about immigrants when a solid accounting of the where, who, when and how many is either not available, or the digging to unearth, is too difficult for the MSM to sort fact from hyped annecdotal references.
We all react adversely to big brother watching tendencies, but is it not reasonable for DHS to reach out and easily “touch” immigrants on known rosters of special status?
My walk to and from the train downtown I usually see minimum three or four and usually more. The jarring thing is immigrants begging at grocery stores and what not in my area. That NEVER happened before last year.
ETA they are not Haitian but according to their signs Venezuelan and Ecuadorian
is it not reasonable for DHS to reach out and easily “touch” immigrants on known rosters of special status?
Reasonable in theory, yes. In practice I suspect they would be inclined to help their countrymen remain free and safe and in control of their own destiny rather than face detainment or deportation to an uncertain but certainly unenviable fate.
How would you react in that situation?
In case it isn’t painfully obvious, I’m not suggesting that our immigration law enforcement is comparable to Nazi Germany. I’m saying the scene conveys a powerful sentiment felt by marginalized and vulnerable people to protect their own, and the cost it may require of them.
If I’m a Haitian refugee here on temporary status granted to escape a war zone and one of my countrymen and his family are living among us undocumented, I would feel a moral imperative to protect that family and if that meant not cooperating with ICE or whichever agency was “touching” our immigrant population, then so be it.
An Ohio sheriff this weekend urged residents in his county to collect the addresses of homes displaying signs for Vice President, suggesting that there would be an influx of undocumented immigrants if she wins the presidential race.
Alongside his caption, Zuchowski posted photos of Fox News coverage showing footage from Springfield, Ohio, and Aurora, Colo. — two cities that have been in the national spotlight in recent weeks as former president Trump and his running mate, Sen. JD Vance, have publicly repeated baseless, inflammatory claims about the immigrant communities there.
In Monday posts on X, the American Civil Liberties Union of Ohio condemned Zuchowski’s comments, adding that putting up political signs was “most decidedly, protected core First Amendment speech.”
“For the sitting sheriff of Portage County to be engaging in the very type of behavior he’s meant to combat is despicable,” the organization wrote.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/09/16/ohio-harris-walz-political-sign/?utm_campaign=wp_the7&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_the7&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F3f033ab%2F66e95eef38ca915e662b4c74%2F5f483fe4ade4e274f27d009c%2F26%2F91%2F66e95eef38ca915e662b4c74
On CNN yesterday morning, Vance admitted to Dana Bash that he had created the story of Haitian immigrants eating pets. He justified the lie that has hurt Springfield and endangered its residents by claiming such a lie was the only way to get the media to pay attention to what he considers the crisis of immigration.
Now Vance says that Haitian immigrants are spreading HIV and tuberculosis in Ohio; in fact, new diagnoses of HIV dropped from 2018 to 2022, and the director of the Ohio Department of Health says there has been no change in TB rates.
Immigration and immigration-related problems have been & will be worthwhile subjects for Americans to tackle. Lies, deceit, fraud are not the correct way to tackle them.
Whether it’s lying about building a wall that Mexico will pay for, lying about immigrants, or telling Republican lawmakers to vote against bipartisan immigration bill, MAGAs are not honest and worthy of any votes. No reasonable person can support them.
Were I on a list and documented to a special status for residence in the US that described a finite eligibility time period, I would expect I and my lawyer would want to maintain contact with those in authority to change my status. Knowing full well that deportation or a change to a more permanent status awaited. You use the term detainment, I would expect that to be a possibility only if deportation was ordered and I did not willingly self deport.
The population data as per Gov. Dewine points to a spike in primarily Haitian migrants beginning early last year, so HIV data prior to that isn’t useful one way or the other. I would expect higher HIV rates in a failed war torn country for a host of reasons. But that shouldn’t affect our thoughts on the issue one way or another, for the most part, in 2024.
I haven’t looked at the data so I can’t really speak to it one way or another, except to say that Trump and Vance are lying through their teeth to intentionally stir up fear and xenophobia and need to be called out repeatedly for it.
When the truth is on your side there is no value in lying. This is who they are.
1 Like
That 12-15k is the total of foreign born in all of Clark county, which has a population of 150k. So that is not the city itself.
Can you provide a report that this population is primarily Haitian?
Because I really doubt that Ohio went from 5k total people born in Haiti, to a year later 10k all being in one city in Ohio.
1 Like
My anecdote was more in jest as I have never seen someone selling chocolate on the street, immigrant or not.
But I am very familiar with how the town has slid over the decades. My brother in law grew up there and that family moved back in I think 1997 or 98. In the years since one of the largest employers, International Harvester (they may have just been known as International by that time, farmers know them by their red tractors) left. You can see by the population figures, they have been bleeding people and it shows. So Springfield had issues long before Haitians got there, which is why in 2014 the town started a program to attract immigrants to the city. ANd it worked. YAY?!?!?
I am sure the influx has presented issues. I am a big fan of immigrants integrating into society. That means not having insular populations, learning the language, etc. But if people start organizing against them, they will be very insular. Getting a lot of non-English speaking people and students into a town will be tough. You will have to get interpreters for pretty much any government function, schools, etc. But my experience is these communities are very good helping themselves when they can by bringing along friends who speak english. But Haiti is a different culture. Some of it is going to look very odd to medium town/rural Ohio. Both sides are going to have to adjust (I feel like I just narrated an episode of Star Trek where two societies were brought together so they both can survive).
I would assume they have (should have?) a db that they could spit that out easily, but it is the government so never underestimate their ability to not have good info.
A legal immigrant in their situation would very much want to keep the government informed of their location. Hearing notices come by mail. Missing hearings gets you put into deportation. Those who work legally also keep the government advised of their location the same way you and I do, through tax data. I am not sure of the extent ICE or the IRS communicate with each other. Could be a lot, could be none.
Illegal immigrants go into the wind. If they were originally legal (not sure of current numbers but it has almost always been the case that the majority of illegal aliens entered legally but overstayed a visa or lost status) we knew where they were at some point. Pretty easy for them to disappear if they are able to find work. But these are not high risk fugitives and it makes no sense to use the resources to track them down.
Oh, and one final thing everyone here knows but apparently our GOP members do not, the last thing Springfield needs is a bunch of people making up lies and fostering anger. Cripes, nearly everyone here would handle this better.
2 Likes
I may have linked the article earlier but I’ll dig around. I think it may have come from Dewine’s interview, but not certain.
This is primarily why I started this thread separate from Trump Watch. Even when you do your homework and approach it objectively the facts remain somewhat elusive and murky.
In 1980, Lowell, MA had 90,000 residents. Very white.
Over the next decade, 20,000 Cambodian refugees moved to Lowell, and 10,000 white people moved out. Today it’s 25% Asian.
An old mill town on the Merrimack, one of the birthplaces of the industrial revolution, it’s been in rough shape since at least ww2. It was still rough in 2010, but it’s gotten a lot nicer recently. CVS was founded in Lowell in 63, but that’s entirely unrelated.
1 Like
I knew that by counting the number of paragraphs on their receipts, one for every year. Sort of like how you age a tree by the number of rings in the stump.
From Dayton Daily news:
“Our reporting also shows the Haitian population may be more around 12,000-15,000. That’s according to Mayor Rob Rue, who conducted a news conference in the city on Sept. 10. That number comes from the Clark County Health District and other partners.”
As far as differentiating between Clark County and Springfield, I haven’t found much else.