What rate of fire, is "automatic"

[WHATSUP]

Its my understanding automatic weapons are well controlled and very expensive to purchase (and mostly used on the market) But I believe the law is not written around a rate of fire more around the automation of the firing.

With technology improving and bumpstocks legal I am sure it wont be long( already?) when a non-automatic weapon can fire at a rate faster than an automatic of 10yrs ago.

FYI I use to hunt, don’t know much about guns other than a double barrel shotgun. And if I owned a handgun over the past 10yrs I would be dead.

But I love talking logically about the idiocy of many American laws.

[jimatbeyond]

Automatic weapons aren’t banned.

Just fill out the form, pay the tax, and buy it for around $30K.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/form/form-4-application-tax-paid-transfer-and-registration-firearm-atf-form-53204

[jimatbeyond]

Automatic firearms shoot around 600 to 1,000 rounds per minute.

Semi-automatic firearms with a bumpstock only shoot around 400 rounds per minute.

[Sulliesbrew]

Automatic is defined as firing more than 1 round per trigger pull. Not limit on rate of fire, just that each trigger pull = one round down range.

[tigermilk]

Laws likely don’t define automatic as a rate, and as such, executing multiple shots at a rate of 1 shot per any unit of time if actuated by a single motion/action would technically be automatic. Pulling the trigger once to pop off 10 rounds over an hour would technically be “automatic”.

But then again, I am thinking like an engineer. Politicians and lawyers would likely (and wrongly IMO) define it the way they want to to meet their agenda.

[50plus]

@Sulliesbrew

Automatic is defined as firing more than 1 round per trigger pull. Not limit on rate of fire, just that each trigger pull = one round down range.

^This^ A automatic firearm is simply a firearm that fires automatically, pull and hold the trigger and it keeps firing until the amo runs out, or the barrel melts. Lol Has nothing to do with how many rounds per minute.

[softrun]

Maybe an off topic a bit, but does that old hand cracked Gatling gun, I think that is the name, qualifies as automatic?

[scorpio516]

Yes because there is no trigger, it fires automatically once the barrel is in position.

Technically it’s rapid fire, but that technicalitiy that doesn’t exist to the law

[50plus]

@softrun

Maybe an off topic a bit, but does that old hand cracked Gatling gun, I think that is the name, qualifies as automatic?

No because it takes a person to continually fire it, if you take a M-16 clamp the trigger and walk away it will continue to fire.

[WHATSUP]

@tigermilk

Laws likely don’t define automatic as a rate, and as such, executing multiple shots at a rate of 1 shot per any unit of time if actuated by a single motion/action would technically be automatic. Pulling the trigger once to pop off 10 rounds over an hour would technically be “automatic”.

But then again, I am thinking like an engineer. Politicians and lawyers would likely (and wrongly IMO) define it the way they want to to meet their agenda.

So if its one fire per trigger pull, what were the factors that made a bump stock legal, My understanding you pull trigger once, and recoil keeps it going.

Thinking there is a loophole big enough to make Millions off of.

[WHATSUP]

@50plus

@Sulliesbrew

Automatic is defined as firing more than 1 round per trigger pull. Not limit on rate of fire, just that each trigger pull = one round down range.

^This^ A automatic firearm is simply a firearm that fires automatically, pull and hold the trigger and it keeps firing until the amo runs out, or the barrel melts. Lol Has nothing to do with how many rounds per minute.

But is that now how a bump stop works also.

[slowguy]

@WHATSUP

@tigermilk

Laws likely don’t define automatic as a rate, and as such, executing multiple shots at a rate of 1 shot per any unit of time if actuated by a single motion/action would technically be automatic. Pulling the trigger once to pop off 10 rounds over an hour would technically be “automatic”.

But then again, I am thinking like an engineer. Politicians and lawyers would likely (and wrongly IMO) define it the way they want to to meet their agenda.

So if its one fire per trigger pull, what were the factors that made a bump stock legal, My understanding you pull trigger once, and recoil keeps it going.

Thinking there is a loophole big enough to make Millions off of.

A bump stock doesn’t allow you to pull the trigger once and discharge multiple rounds. You use the bump stock along with forward pressure from your support hand to move (or bumps) the trigger assembly into your trigger finger, causing you to pull the trigger and fire individual rounds more quickly than a normal firing process, but it still only fires a single round per trigger pull. You can technically bump fire even without a bump stock. It’s a technique for faster firing.

[50plus]

@WHATSUP

@50plus

@Sulliesbrew

Automatic is defined as firing more than 1 round per trigger pull. Not limit on rate of fire, just that each trigger pull = one round down range.

^This^ A automatic firearm is simply a firearm that fires automatically, pull and hold the trigger and it keeps firing until the amo runs out, or the barrel melts. Lol Has nothing to do with how many rounds per minute.

But is that now how a bump stop works also.

Please see Slowguy’s reply.

[jimatbeyond]

22-976_e29g.pdf