For someone 64 years old
No flip turns
What sort of times for say 2000 yards will equate to a good half distance time compared to other 60 - 65 year olds?
Yes I know how long it a piece of rope lol. But some good estimates maybe?
I swim just under a 1:40 pace on a steady 2,000 yard short course pool with no flip turns and wearing jammers. That translates to a top 10 swim in a half Ironman in my 55-60 AG.
Dan has decided to do 2k swims to test his training, his benchmark so to speak. I have accompanied him on occasion pulling, did a couple 2k’s in the past couple weeks. We are a bit older(67 for him, 68 for me) but close enough for horse shoes and hand grenades. I think he stared out at about 38 minutes, and has over about 5 weeks gotten down to like 32 1/2 minutes. He would come out in the top few of our age group in most swims. I figure he should be at around 30 flat if he holds this training bloc together for a couple more months…
I did mine in 25.54 next to him, would hope that would win my age group and possible yours, and maybe even the one below!!! (-;
Thank you for the detailed answer
Do you think the 4 seconds slower/100 open turn VS flip tune is accurate?
Well unless you have a decent turn to begin with, probably not losing any time at all. Not sure if this describes you or not, but most folks that do open turns are pretty hopeless doing flip turns, thus the wall grab…
If one were really good at flips and open turns, I would say more like .5 second per turn doing flips. Pro swimmers even less with their underwaters.
Dan has decided to do 2k swims to test his training, his benchmark so to speak. I have accompanied him on occasion pulling, did a couple 2k’s in the past couple weeks. We are a bit older(67 for him, 68 for me) but close enough for horse shoes and hand grenades. I think he stared out at about 38 minutes, and has over about 5 weeks gotten down to like 32 1/2 minutes. He would come out in the top few of our age group in most swims. I figure he should be at around 30 flat if he holds this training bloc together for a couple more months…
I did mine in 25.54 next to him, would hope that would win my age group and possible yours, and maybe even the one below!!! (-;
Sub 26. Nice! My best (tried it once when I was about 56ish was 26:30).
You da man.
I forgot, are you faster pulling? I’m not.
Ha ha yes, I’m an above average puller. When I was your age there(55) I was in super shape swimming in san Clemente with a bunch of super fast lifeguards. I did my last big birthday set of 55x100’s on the 1;15 SCY and held them all under 1;10…
But 13 years later that seems like an entire lifetime ago, and that time seemed miles from when I was in my 30’s. I could maybe do 10 at that pace now, and that would be touch and go, and I would have to suit up and taper too!. Getting old sucks donkey balls…
How you holding up these days, still getting after it once in awhile?
Maybe from a long time hand turner to someone who is a front pack swimmer that flip turns & dolphin kicks. But that same hand turner would probably be slower with flip turns until they practice them & get them dialed in. You get a bigger breath hand turning. It’s not as simple as going from hand turning to flip turning & saving a bunch of time. What I will say is that someone hand turning is probably getting the standard 3-7s/100 back in calm open water swims. So keep doing what you’re doing, knowing you’ll get a wetsuit bump in open water. Idk on what the right pool time would be so just look at some races & see where you’d like to be & add the 3-7s/100 to your pool swimming to see where you’re at.
I’m still developing my swim & I found a 7s/100 difference swimming 1500-2k tempos in the pool w./ & without a wetsuit on.
I’m 64. I’m horrible at flip turns, but still a second or two quicker than when I wall grab. My CSS is 1:40 SCY. My typical 70,3 swim is 1:50-1:55/100m, always out in less than 38 mins and always in the top 10 for our ag. I did swim a 1:15/100m at Augusta, but that doesn’t count for real speed, as you can float a 2:00/100m there. But still in top 10 for our ag. For our AG, I don’t think the swim is as important as the bike. If you can’t bike at +20mph (which I cannot), then you’re hopelessly a MOPer like me. There are a lot of guys in our ag and in the 65-69 that can bike like crazy. I’m always in awe of them.
What I will say is that someone hand turning is probably getting the standard 3-7s/100 back in calm open water swims. So keep doing what you’re doing, knowing you’ll get a wetsuit bump in open water. Idk on what the right pool time would be so just look at some races & see where you’d like to be & add the 3-7s/100 to your pool swimming to see where you’re at.
Do you have any references regarding this “standard?”
My experience has always been the opposite – open water pace (with wetsuit) at a particular exertion level is about 10s/100yd slower than in the pool (sans wetsuit). GTN just did a video about exactly this, why folks are slower in open water.
I’ve never heard anyone claim that it’s normal to go faster in open water than the pool.
For the record, if I wear the wetsuit in the pool, I see a speedup in line with your suggestion, compared to non-wetsuit in the pool. But alas, my open water pace lags significantly.
I guess just personal anecdote. Maybe I’m just a bad pool swimmer. Maybe as a newer swimmer putting the wetsuit on helps correct my position enough to make me faster in open water. I did some wetsuit testing in the pool this past spring and was 7s/100 faster, so right on the upper end. I would have to lose 7s/100, going from the pool to open water to be slower. Maybe my stroke is better suited to open water/continuous swimming. Most of my races have been lake swims versus ocean.
I think training matters too. When people say their swim time is X/100 are they taking something they can hit for short reps or for longer reps/tempos. Volume matters as well.
My experience has always been the opposite – open water pace (with wetsuit) at a particular exertion level is about 10s/100yd slower than in the pool (sans wetsuit). GTN just did a video about exactly this, why folks are slower in open water. //
I don’t doubt that many like yourself are slower in OW with a wetsuit vs the pool without one. Dont know what GTN said, but whatever reasons they gave are overcome by many, and they actually swim faster, as you should if you are doing things correctly.
When people say their swim time is X/100 are they taking something they can hit for short reps or for longer reps/tempos. Volume matters as well.
Exactly this!
I always overestimate how 100y repeats will translate into longer straight swims. I think for most of us MOP undertrained swimmers we’d like to think swimming 100s at 1:40/100yd pace will magically become 1:35/100yds with a wetsuit on race day.
But I think the math really looks like 1:40/100yds intervals = 1:55/100yds for a 2000yd straight swim = 1:50/100yds on race day.
I can readily swim a pool 1500 with a wetsuit at 1:26/100 pace with sighting included but in ows that pace on the garmin gps goes to 1:45-1:50. And that’s with enough ows to be comfortable in ows so I’m not losing efficiency either. Not sure what it is but at the same time in those races the top agers aren’t swimming faster than 1:30 pace in wetsuits either and I’m sure they’re way faster than that in the pool
I can readily swim a pool 1500 with a wetsuit at 1:26/100 pace with sighting included //
First off the comparison was with no wetsuit in the pool, and secondly, what is sighting in the pool, never heard of that??
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As an adult onset swimmer (58yo, started swimming 10 yrs ago), I find this to be true as well.
I can swim 5x100 at 1:40 pace in the pool with a strong push off the wall but when I swim a long volume interval (1500+ yds), I see my pace fall to 1:55/100yd. Put me in a race with a wetsuit and it’s 2:10/100yd. There are inefficiencies that I still have in OW due to lack of experience - but I’m still getting out there and enjoying it.
I can readily swim a pool 1500 with a wetsuit at 1:26/100 pace with sighting included //
First off the comparison was with no wetsuit in the pool, and secondly, what is sighting in the pool, never heard of that??
You never practice sighting in the pool?
You never practice sighting in the pool? //
Not once in the over 50 years of swimming. Is that a thing now with triathletes? Did swim head up when I played water polo, but that is a different thing. What does one hope to accomplish sighting in a straight lane in a smooth pool?
You never practice sighting in the pool? //
Not once in the over 50 years of swimming. Is that a thing now with triathletes? Did swim head up when I played water polo, but that is a different thing. What does one hope to accomplish sighting in a straight lane in a smooth pool?
Neck strengthening and timing of sight! What else do you do if ows is annoyingly far?
I have been swimming about 17:45 for 1000m short course pool for the last few years. It translates into 1:30 for 5 K in open water the last time a few weeks ago. I am 58. That would be 1:08 for an ironman swim. I think that is okay. The open water swim only about 20 people so very little opportunity to draft.