What is really wrong with America.. Mass shootings, Sugar, Health Care.. all the same problem

The Coffee Shop
1

BIG BUSINESS…

We will never fix any of these problems, We have given our country over to making money. Everything has added sugar, we have a health problem because we eat so much sugar… the Govt. subsidies sugar to keep the price low… Good god the processed (sugar infused) tomato paste on pizza in school counts as a vegetable.

To many gun / bullet manufactures would be screwed if we did anything about guns

H.C. you know its more profitable to research and find how to fix the symptoms for a lifetime vs fixing the problem one and done.

We are screwed and no I don’t really think there is any hope. I’ll be dead, and my kids will be left with even more of a mess than what we have today.

2

We live in the greatest most luxurious lifestyle in all of human history and it’s only getting better.

Proof is in your post. Just the fact that have such an abundance of time and money to get on a computer and type your complaints about sugar, guns and modern medicine is more revealing than you apparently understand.

Most of human history has been filled with lives of burden, of war, of slavery, tyranny, disease and starvation.

It used to be that poor people would be malnourished, emaciated, starving. Now the biggest health problem among the poor is obesity.

And you think the world is ending because we have drugs that can manage chronic heart disease, diabetes and cancer?

3

We live in the greatest most luxurious lifestyle in all of human history and it’s only getting better.

And you think the world is ending because we have drugs that can manage chronic heart disease, diabetes and cancer?

Have we, and by we, I mean the wealthier countries, the G20 countries and others, the consumers of plenty.
What is enough? a second pair of shoes? the 10th pair, the 50th pair?
We need a break, so we really should fly half way around the world, just so I can experience…
Drugs manage chronic diseases, so I don’t have to do much about it, 'cause I’m one of the lucky ones that can afford the drugs.
We live in a period of, as you have stated, luxurious abundance, and yet, it appears that we are consuming ourselves into poorer health, poorer quality of life and certainly into a poorer natural world.

One wonders how history will judge the 20th and 21st centuries.
One hopes the Greta Thunberg’s of the world will help change the current trajectory.

4

BIG BUSINESS…

We will never fix any of these problems, We have given our country over to making money. Everything has added sugar, we have a health problem because we eat so much sugar… the Govt. subsidies sugar to keep the price low… Good god the processed (sugar infused) tomato paste on pizza in school counts as a vegetable.

To many gun / bullet manufactures would be screwed if we did anything about guns

H.C. you know its more profitable to research and find how to fix the symptoms for a lifetime vs fixing the problem one and done.

We are screwed and no I don’t really think there is any hope. I’ll be dead, and my kids will be left with even more of a mess than what we have today.

We already have a relatively high tax on guns and bullets and it’s actually used for good.

https://www.everycrsreport.com/reports/R45123.html

5

We live in the greatest most luxurious lifestyle in all of human history and it’s only getting better.

Proof is in your post. Just the fact that have such an abundance of time and money to get on a computer and type your complaints about sugar, guns and modern medicine is more revealing than you apparently understand.

Most of human history has been filled with lives of burden, of war, of slavery, tyranny, disease and starvation.

It used to be that poor people would be malnourished, emaciated, starving. Now the biggest health problem among the poor is obesity.

And you think the world is ending because we have drugs that can manage chronic heart disease, diabetes and cancer?

This ^^^^^^^

People simply don’t appreciate what they got.

6

You’re leaving a $23 trillion national debt off your list of gripes?
And a $1 trillion+ and growing federal deficit?
And science denial at the highest levels of government?
And religious fundamentalism’s increasing success in rolling back human rights?
And minority rule?
And the world’s highest incarceration rates, with racist implementation?
And the Kardashians?

What is really wrong with America is that you are just not trying.

(Otherwise, though, a splendid rant. I really don’t want to criticise…)

7

Seriously, though… “big business” is what the US does well.
Big business is an enabler for much of what else is good about the US.

There are plenty of problems in the US, but scapegoating big business strikes me as a bit lazy.
And I say this as a communist (i.e., not American).

8

Nope.

An overinflated collective and individual sense of entitlement. It starts and ends there.

We want to live forever and demand premium and often futile health care, at either deferred or transferred expense, that creates unsustainable costs. That demand is what drives big business, not the other way around. Realistic expectations about health care, treatment, and inevitable death reflected in our decisions would go a long way to fixing this problem.

Guns and bullets don’t hurt people. People hurt people with guns and bullets. The people who hurt people with guns and bullets can’t handle the dissatisfaction of their lives because it doesn’t match up to their sense of entitlement for something better, whatever that may look like, so they take it out on other people. Failure and rejection is intolerable to the entitled. That’s the root of this problem.

Sugar in everything is a big problem. Consumers can put it down anytime they’d like, if they didn’t feel entitled to overindulge and poison themselves with it. Kids, yeah, that’s a different problem, but parents could, you know, not indulge their children, and themselves, by giving there precious little butterballs everything their taste buds crave.

All, every bit of it, distills down to mental fitness. Education, reasonable expectations, and discipline. Big Business thrives on and exploits our ignorance, our sense of entitlement and subsequent overindulgence. They didn’t cause the problem. They merely capitalized on it.

All that said, yes, from a social policy perspective, it would be wise to restrain Big Business somewhat from preying on our weakness and picking our bones like vultures, but it’s still a matter of protecting ourselves from ourselves.

9

And with this^^^^^^^^^ this thread is over.

10

H.C. you know its more profitable to research and find how to fix the symptoms for a lifetime vs fixing the problem one and done.

Oh horseshit. If someone comes out with a cure for something they would make a fortune. The problem is cures are harder to discover than treating symptoms.

Unless you’re honestly convinced that every PHD, MD, and researcher out there is only concerned with money. Then I don’t know what to say.

If that’s the case, we wouldn’t have vaccines as one example. We wouldn’t have people researching how to improve surgical techniques and devices so you don’t have to repeat surgery. You wouldn’t have people researching gene therapy to hopefully prevent a lot of these diseases in the first place.

11

We live in the greatest most luxurious lifestyle in all of human history and it’s only getting better.

And you think the world is ending because we have drugs that can manage chronic heart disease, diabetes and cancer?

Have we, and by we, I mean the wealthier countries, the G20 countries and others, the consumers of plenty.
What is enough? a second pair of shoes? the 10th pair, the 50th pair?
We need a break, so we really should fly half way around the world, just so I can experience…
Drugs manage chronic diseases, so I don’t have to do much about it, 'cause I’m one of the lucky ones that can afford the drugs.
We live in a period of, as you have stated, luxurious abundance, and yet, it appears that we are consuming ourselves into poorer health, poorer quality of life and certainly into a poorer natural world.

One wonders how history will judge the 20th and 21st centuries.
One hopes the Greta Thunberg’s of the world will help change the current trajectory.

I don’t have a ton crap and I live a fairly healthy lifestyle. At (almost) 49 years old I can still fit in a pair trunks I bought when I was 19 (size 32). Yes I still wear those trunks.

It could be argued that I have too many surfboards.

Drugs manage chronic diseases, so I don’t have to do much about it, 'cause I’m one of the lucky ones that can afford the drugs.

Would you rather that nobody has access to these drugs? You realize that drugs (like all new products) start out expensive and then get cheaper over time.

We live in a period of, as you have stated, luxurious abundance, and yet, it appears that we are consuming ourselves into poorer health, poorer quality of life and certainly into a poorer natural world.

It’s appears to you that way but that isn’t really what’s happening. People are living longer (thanks to evil medicine), our quality of life is the best it’s ever been, and yes we are encroaching on “the natural world” (you realize that humans are part of the natural world?) but the will be just fine.

And when I said “luxurious” I wasn’t referring to stuff to buy. When alluded to abundance (i never actually mentioned it) it was referring to the fact that we (the entire world) has enough food to feed everyone on the planet and then some.

Your pessimism drives your thinking. Maybe (if you aren’t doing it already) you should try doing something to make the world a better place. Volunteer at Hospice, organize a trash cleanup, plant a tree, teach a kid how to fish, help a stranger for no reason at all.

Some of that bitterness will go away.

12

You’re leaving a $23 trillion national debt off your list of gripes?
And a $1 trillion+ and growing federal deficit?
And science denial at the highest levels of government?
And religious fundamentalism’s increasing success in rolling back human rights?
And minority rule?
And the world’s highest incarceration rates, with racist implementation?
And the Kardashians?

What is really wrong with America is that you are just not trying.

(Otherwise, though, a splendid rant. I really don’t want to criticise…)

These are all problems with our government. It’s a good argument for scaling back its scope and power.

13

All, every bit of it, distills down to mental fitness. Education, reasonable expectations, and discipline. Big Business thrives on and exploits our ignorance, our sense of entitlement and subsequent overindulgence. They didn’t cause the problem. They merely capitalized on it.

Then why does it seem vast swaths of government want to keep the huddled masses ignorant and stupid?

It’s not “Hope”, it’s not “MAGA”…the rally cry should be corrected to be: FYIGM.

14

Then why does it seem vast swaths of government want to keep the huddled masses ignorant and stupid?

Ignorant and stupid are easier to control. It’s all about power.

And the ignorant and stupid keep giving them more and more of it.

15

People are living longer (thanks to evil medicine), our quality of life is the best it’s ever been

Overall, I think you’re correct. This is the easiest time for human beings to walk the earth, on average. Whether or not that actually imparts true happiness (which I’d argue is a fundamental component of quality of life) is debatable.

On this point, though, it’s objective fact that we’re living longer but adding years of suffering to the lifespan with no real benefit to life quality, productivity, happiness, or acceptance of death. So for the average person, it isn’t really a measure of progress. In fact, I think it’s quite the opposite. It’s a symptom of our psychopathology and it causes very real harm.

16

People are living longer (thanks to evil medicine), our quality of life is the best it’s ever been

Overall, I think you’re correct. This is the easiest time for human beings to walk the earth, on average. Whether or not that actually imparts true happiness (which I’d argue is a fundamental component of quality of life) is debatable.

On this point, though, it’s objective fact that we’re living longer but adding years of suffering to the lifespan with no real benefit to life quality, productivity, happiness, or acceptance of death. So for the average person, it isn’t really a measure of progress. In fact, I think it’s quite the opposite. It’s a symptom of our psychopathology and it causes very real harm.

Well as you alluded to in your first reply these things are all choices. We have the choice to suffer at that end for a long time and we have the choice not to. It beats the alternative where you get a bacterial infection and die a horrific painful death at 33 because we don’t have any way to treat it, an infection you got from wading in an open sewer in a feeble attempt to find something to eat.

As for “true happiness”…again, largely a choice (or state of mind). In today’s world we have the best possible conditions in which “true happiness” can be found. Some are happy spending time on a yacht, others (like myself) are happy just swimming in the ocean or sitting in the yard with family.

It’s all there. You can choose anything you want, or nothing at all.

Also a big part of that increased average lifespan is being able to save the young from dying prematurely.

One of my friends that I grew up with (and just went to Cabo with) got cancer when he was 2. Almost killed him. But it didn’t. He’s 49 now and a judge.

And goes surfing with his buddies.

17

Well as you alluded to in your first reply these things are all choices. We have the choice to suffer at that end for a long time and we have the choice not to. It beats the alternative where you get a bacterial infection and die a horrific painful death at 33 because we don’t have any way to treat it, an infection you got from wading in an open sewer in a feeble attempt to find something to eat

Exactly. We hit that plateau, so to speak, back in the '60s:

In the early part of the 20th century, life expectancy increased as vaccines, antibiotics, and better medical care saved more children from premature death and effectively treated infections. Once cured, people who had been sick largely returned to their normal, healthy lives without residual disabilities. Since 1960, however, increases in longevity have been achieved mainly by extending the lives of people over 60. Rather than saving more young people, we are stretching out old age…

…There was an “increase in the life expectancy with disease and a decrease in the years without disease. The same is true for functioning loss, an increase in expected years unable to function.”

This was confirmed by a recent worldwide assessment of “healthy life expectancy” conducted by the Harvard School of Public Health and the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation at the University of Washington. The researchers included not just physical but also mental disabilities such as depression and dementia. They found not a compression of morbidity but in fact an expansion—an “increase in the absolute number of years lost to disability as life expectancy rises.”

As for “true happiness”…again, largely a choice (or state of mind). In today’s world we have the best possible conditions in which “true happiness” can be found. Some are happy spending time on a yacht, others (like myself) are happy just swimming in the ocean or sitting in the yard with family.

Yes and no. Because of this potential, and people’s unrealistic desire or expectation of reaching that potential, and everpresent exposure to people other than ourselves reaching that potential, I think conditions are ripe for widespread true unhappiness. Which speaks to both of our observations: it’s a choice, and it’s a matter of setting reasonable expectations and appreciating what you have, or can realistically achieve.

18

Exactly. We hit that plateau, so to speak, back in the '60s:

So this is what “Make America Great Again” means to you, go back to the 60s?

:slight_smile:

19

Shit, man, I didn’t have a care in the world in those days.

20

BIG BUSINESS…

We will never fix any of these problems, We have given our country over to making money. Everything has added sugar, we have a health problem because we eat so much sugar… the Govt. subsidies sugar to keep the price low… Good god the processed (sugar infused) tomato paste on pizza in school counts as a vegetable.

To many gun / bullet manufactures would be screwed if we did anything about guns

H.C. you know its more profitable to research and find how to fix the symptoms for a lifetime vs fixing the problem one and done.

We are screwed and no I don’t really think there is any hope. I’ll be dead, and my kids will be left with even more of a mess than what we have today.

Big business has increased the cost of due process by capturing the courts so that makes it very difficult to solve many of our problems. Infrastructure problems very difficult to solve between environmentalists on one side and those interested in keeping taxes low (the very wealthy) on the other. Money in politics very problematic. Decreasing he size of gov’t would help a lot but the promotion of individual freedoms is eroding community so citizens look to the state to solve their problems so good luck decreasing the size of gov’t. All this was predicted 200 years ago by Tocqueville. If you are feeling down build up you interpersonal networks (friends and family). Real friends not lavender room friends. It will make you feel better and if gov’t tanks it will be really good to have friends.