being serious here.
Chrissie Wellington crushed it on an older slice
Heather Jackson won Placid on a slice
Andy Potts top 4 at Kona on a Kestrel
I myself got blown by at IMMD buy a guy doing 25 easy on an old elite Carbon/aluminum frame
If we are honest doesn’t it ALL really come down to fitness for all except the top 1%
Its really just eye candy.
.
If we are honest doesn’t it ALL really come down to fitness for all except the top 1%
Its really just eye candy.
It certainly doesn’t matter as much as you’d think reading this forum. But it does matter.
And the benefits certainly aren’t isolated to just the top 1%.
I’m a masters cyclist. I’ve won and lost TTs by seconds. I’ve beaten people with FTPs 60W higher than mine (in TT) because I made a dozen little better aero decisions than they did.
It’s harder to see in triathlon for obvious reasons
But you have a point that his forum goes bananas over frame aero when it’s just ~20% of aero. Probably anyone on this forum could race a well-optimized (in position and components) P2 or Slice, and probably <<1% of race results would be affected in terms of ordinal placing.
Chrissie is Chrissie. Such as outlier you have to just throw her out. I’m not that familiar with Heather. Andy, maybe, could have jumped up a place or 3 in some fraction of races over his career if he had Rappstar/Gerlach-grade equipment obsession. However there are thousands of little things a pro has to get right. Potts gets most of them right. I have a hard time faulting him because he’s not an aero geek.
I myself got blown by at IMMD buy a guy doing 25 easy
.
Not that there is anything wrong with that…
For, 99% of folks racing, would not make any difference, other than their pocket books are lighter. 
Most of what you’re doing on the bike is pushing through air, and having turbulent air pull you back.
Reducing that is the most effective thing you can do in triathlon (assuming you have a reasonable level of fitness and endurance).
Most of what you’re doing on the bike is pushing through air, and having turbulent air pull you back.
Reducing that is the most effective thing you can do in triathlon (assuming you have a reasonable level of fitness and endurance).
And most of that is your body. The OP is talking about equipment, which is a relatively small fraction of total aero. Going from a Slice or Kestrel to a P5 isn’t a huge, huge change, assuming the same body position. Around 5 minutes for a 140.6? That’s a good chunk. But for most people, it probably isn’t the most effective thing. Most people leave way more time than that out on the run course. Worth doing anyway because it’s easy - just requires money. And you look cool, which makes you feel fast.
Not enough of a chunk that it mattered much for most of Chrissie Wellington’s races.
Aero makes a huge difference for almost everyone, even slow riders, so yeah aero really matters. Bike frames are a small part of aero, though, so the focus on frames is largely misplaced. It just happens that a bunch of wild new bikes have been released recently, and it’s starting to get dark and cold so people are running out of other things to talk about.
Best aero benefits are from position of the rider, arguably more modern bike design can achieve a better aero position for the rider whilst maintaining decent wattage?
My own experience of riding a 2009 bike (which I guess is now considered old) and a 1998 antique tri bike, I don’t notice much difference (although perhaps when I eventually get a power meter I will). And in races I get passed by folks on older bikes who are no doubt fitter and more aero than me, and I pass a number of newer machines (which is especially nice on the 1998 antique).
But yes, I am sure that folks on a well fitted, pre-super bike design that can achieve a great position would go faster than someone of equal stats on a poorly fitted super bike (I know, I know, stating the obvious).
We are all individuals though (except me), and to be honest I don’t see a huge problem with folks buying the latest spendy gear for a sport that they love. Keeps the second hand market alive too.
dark and cold
Why did we blow vacation time on a 3 week trip to Europe this summer when I could have spent 3 weeks in Hawaii this winter?
Edit: okay to add content. Aero matters if you are losing your AG or overall or KQ by seconds or up to a few minutes. The 5 hour 1/2 finishers or a 2:30 oly? That’s not going to get solved by improving aero. It might jump you from 35th to 33rd place.
If it doesn’t matter, then neither does drafting.
Except 5:30 or 2:30 of tens wins my age group. Be nice!
dark and cold
Why did we blow vacation time on a 3 week trip to Europe this summer when I could have spent 3 weeks in Hawaii this winter?
Edit: okay to add content. Aero matters if you are losing your AG or overall or KQ by seconds or up to a few minutes. The 5 hour 1/2 finishers or a 2:30 oly? That’s not going to get solved by improving aero. It might jump you from 35th to 33rd place.
Yes of course. That said my moto when clients tell me they want to upgrade there bike even though I know it won’t make a time difference.
" Your hard work has given you the income to have what you want. Your training will make that investment worth the outcome. "
The great thing about aerodynamics is it’s science and entirely devoid of opinion. It’s simply a mathematical fact. So factual all things being equal, a faster bike is simply faster…to not coin a phrase. If Chrissy was on a P5 with an aero helmet she would have been a faster version of Chrissy. That’s the objective reality. Is it worth it? That’s entirely subjective.
Well, it is something to consider – how valuable time is for you.
On bestbikesplit.com for example, which has been remarkably accurate for me and others, the time riding the 2014 IM Texas course in an “Advanced Triathlete” aero TT bike position at my specs, 65% of my FTP (205 watts), latex tubes, aero wheels, aero helmet, time is 5:05.
When i change this to a basic road bike in the drops (no clip on aero bars, same wheels, helmet, FTP, weight, etc), that time is 5:13.
When i change this to a basic road bike on the hoods the whole race (no clip on aero bars, same wheels, helmet, FTP, weight, etc), that time is 5:25.
Now, as I get closer and closer to 10 hour ironmans, this 8-20 minutes is becoming quite valuable to me.
if that difference is not important to you, then i wouldnt stress it at all.
If you get a buy that fits well and then train smart (the hard part) the thousands people spend on aero is largely a waste of money.
But, don’t tell marketers that, triathletes are their bread and butter.
For, 99% of folks racing, would not make any difference, other than their pocket books are lighter.
Ever sprint at the end of a race? Why? It reduces your time by less than an Omega-X brake would.
This is telling. If the difference between a normal roadbike and an advanced setup is only 8min for an IM distance - what is it between my TM01 and the new time machine or between a P5 and a P5X? Will we be no longer competitive unless we spend 17k?
Cheers
Roberto
Andy, maybe, could have jumped up a place or 3 in some fraction of races over his career if he had Rappstar/Gerlach-grade equipment obsession. However there are thousands of little things a pro has to get right. Potts gets most of them right. I have a hard time faulting him because he’s not an aero geek.
First off, thank you for the kind words. With that being said, I to have to be careful of falling into the trap of chasing gains that, although are gains, may cost me more because lack of time spent in other areas of athletic development.
being serious here.
Chrissie Wellington crushed it on an older slice
Heather Jackson won Placid on a slice
Andy Potts top 4 at Kona on a Kestrel
I myself got blown by at IMMD buy a guy doing 25 easy on an old elite Carbon/aluminum frame
If we are honest doesn’t it ALL really come down to fitness for all except the top 1%
Its really just eye candy.
.
I think once you get above 40 there’s a benefit, above 45kmh it really starts to matter.
For most AG at 30-35kmh hardly at all.
It’s just marketing.
This is telling. If the difference between a normal roadbike and an advanced setup is only 8min for an IM distance - what is it between my TM01 and the new time machine or between a P5 and a P5X? Will we be no longer competitive unless we spend 17k?
Cheers
Roberto
The difference between a ‘regular’ IM CdA and mine is worth 30 minutes on BBS. Might not be worth it to some…