after reading about your LBS i’m wondering who it is. i think i know who it is. but i see this on your user profile:
is this retailer not on our list of bike shops?
I want close to performance bike pricing on components. I’d love to support the local tri stores but I feel like I’m getting killed on components whenever I go in. I buy a cassette and chain from them (multiple local bike shops in my area) and it’s $150+ but I can go two miles down the road to performance bike and it’s $100 for the pair.
Yes, sorry. Some aspects of my profile remain not updated. I joined ST nearly 3 years before training with the shop but thanks to your prompt, I think the shop should now show. Some of the shop detail / personnel / address is out dated. They’ve newly added Retul. I suppose I should suggest they update that…
that’s who i thought you meant 
.
and so forth. what is it that turns you on about your shop or shops you’ve seen? what is it you want that you don’t now get?
Note: Responses are for bike racing, not triathlon.
PLUS:
I’m on a team so we don’t pay full price. That’s a big plus.
Expedited service if needed.
Willing to do the legwork researching what I might want/need.
offer a coffee bar with a barista in the shop. <==== Yes, my shop has a coffee shop attached.
Took the high road when there was some drama, so I will race for the shop next year and not the current team.
MINUS:
Can be limited parking at times.
Limited options for bike brands.
after reading about your LBS i’m wondering who it is. i think i know who it is. but i see this on your user profile:
is this retailer not on our list of bike shops?
Pardon me for being oblivious…Is the retailers for Tri shops only or are bike shops allowed? The retailer page seems to indicate it is for tri-shops, but my LBS is a bike shop that sponsors the TT team I am on.
it’s bike shops that sell to triathletes. this dbase runs the gamut. it could be simply a bike shop offering tri products, or a full blown tri shop.
likewise we have a dbase for run stores. same thing. in encinitas there’s a movin shoes across the street from nytro multisport. both would be on that run store dbase if the shop itself feels that triathletes are among its target customers.
better hours. most people during the week ride 5-10am commutes to work etc. then after work 3-8. so if you get a flat or something, at the moment have to rely on self to fix the problem or wait till they open. which is usually lie 9:30-6. that barista would be nice (kerug) while you wait on quick repair.
I try to support my local bike and run shops, but it’s hard. Last week I wanted to buy a pair of Hoka Clyatons and went to a local running shop. I had a 15% off coupon and a $10 card from a local race. Combined, it would have taken $25 off, but they said I couldn’t combine the two. I told them I’d buy the shoes on REI with 20% off saving $30. The guy in the running store seemed surprised that I’d go this route and tried to sell me on their ‘points program,’ but it’s not worth it of they don’t really even try to match.
Dan,
I would challenge that LBS evolve their models to make this work. I don’t think consumers have to provide the privelege for an LBS to stay in business. Rather, the industry need to evolve to be more competitive. I think the future of LBS will involve a model where common goods are stored in a nearby warehouse, where they can be easily sent to LBS for customers to checkout and purchase as needed. This will probably also mean LBS forming alliances, etc.
I would like to support my bike shop more often, but very often:
- They don’t have inventory, so I can’t see what I am buying ahead of time
- Don’t have the particular brand / model I want, so I have to go to another LBS that I don’t like or buy online
- 2 weeks turnaround time to get item from warehouse
- Custom order so I can’t return it (Really annoying when I wanted to try out shoes for sizes, and marginalizes the LBS advantage of being able to see what you buy)
- Have to pickup between 10am-6pm, closed on Sundays (might be easy for some, but very difficult for me)
- Far more expensive, sometimes even above MSRP, or carry outrageous service fee because of the “need” to protect margins (a LBS quoted my friend $60 to change the tires on her bike and she just spent $120 buying a set of GP 4000s II from the same shop)
Margins are lower in the bike industry, competition is fiercer. The industry is bound to consolidate at some point. Of course, I could be wrong. I am sure PerformanceBike thought the same a decade ago, and that’s been going well…
“Inventory”
i notice that a few of you have referenced:
-inventory
-price
you want inventory, but you don’t want to pay MSRP. you understand that amazon and chain wiggle don’t have inventory, right? they don’t have same-day. there isn’t same-day impulse buy. there isn’t service (as in wrenching) at all.
so, what i want are creative ways for a bike shop to offer what you want it to offer while not mandating that they do so as a charity to you. figure out ways to extract value from them while allowing them the privilege of staying in business.
“I would challenge that LBS evolve their models to make this work. I don’t think consumers have to provide the privelege for an LBS to stay in business. Rather, the industry need to evolve to be more competitive.”
i agree. still, your suggestions aren’t suggestions. they’re whines. so the question is whether you WANT an LBS local to you. if not, if you think you can handle all your own wrenching, warranty, recalls, and you can anticipate all your needs well enough to buy mail order in advance, and you don’t need the LBS for anything, fine.
but if you do think having an LBS is a value-add, then put your thinking cap on and YOU figure out what that evolved model looks like, bearing in mind the LBS needs to make money. if you have no ideas, fine, but i think we all already know what you (and i) don’t like about the typical LBS. the idea here is to find out what you do or would like about the (evolved) LBS, and what that LBS of the future looks like.
now, let’s talk about performance, because 2 of you have mentioned it. this chain was purchased by ASI, the owners of fuji and kestrel. i think performance was its largest customer. why did this sale take place? was there a lot of debt owed ASI? was performance going to either sell or close, costing ASI its largest customer? and whatever (presumed) debt was outstanding? i don’t know. but before i extoll the virtues of performance (as the grand success story of bike retail) i think i would like to see how it all pans out.
- They don’t have inventory, so I can’t see what I am buying ahead of time
- Don’t have the particular brand / model I want, so I have to go to another LBS that I don’t like or buy online
This has been a common theme…but I don’t think people realize the astronomical carrying costs and risks associated with these requests…
Let’s take something relatively simple like BTA drink systems. Off the top of my head, you have 3 major brands…Torhans, XLab and Profile. From those major brands, you have multiple product options. There is just no way for a shop to stock all these brands / options. Inevitably, someone is going to come in and want the brand / product option the shop doesn’t carry…and will then complain when the shop says “We can order that for you.” And if the shop says “well, we don’t have that option, but we do have xxx” people will complain about only being sold what the shop “has on the floor.”
And that is just a relatively simple and lower cost product. Expand that across multiple categories and multiple product choices…it gets quite insane very quickly. It costs money to carry all that inventory and that amounts to higher retail costs. But of course people still want the shops to match what they find on the internet.
…this chain was purchased by ASI, the owners of fuji and kestrel. i think performance was its largest customer. why did this sale take place? was there a lot of debt owed ASI? was performance going to either sell or close, costing ASI its largest customer? and whatever (presumed) debt was outstanding?..
When this happened I thought it was an attempt to ‘vertically integrate’ for ASI to better compete with the likes of Canyon. But honestly I hadn’t even considered the potential that there was a lot of debt on the books owed to ASI. Is ASI or Performance a publicly traded company? Is there any obligation to disclose books to the public as this deal is completed? I’m just curious.
I go to 3 “bike shops” for various reasons, but most of my equipment buying happens either on the ST classifieds, Amazon, or direct from the UK (Wiggle, etc.). I also to 90+% of my own maintainance:
Mike’s Bikes - Basic parts/repairs. Need a new tube, chain, fix a brake/derailleur adjustment I screwed up.Palo Alto Bicycles - Bike porn/window shopping. Work on my Speed Concept - hate working on that bike. Pick up unique items for myself and for gifts like King Cages, novelty water bottles. They also have a great inventory (various lights, clothing, e-tube lengths, press-fit BBs, Di2 seat tube battery holder, etc.)Velotech (high-end boutique in Palo Alto) for wheel building, “difficult” repairs/installs, and basic fitting. Don’t think I have ever bought a product there, just paid for service.
Mike’s model seems like the best business, but for me is the worst of all worlds. Big inventory, but typically not what I need. Carry a lot of brands of bikes, but probably none that I will buy. They do OK work and are good for warranty claims though? Seems like they make money selling lower-end bikes and charging $150 to tune up a $600 bike.
Palo Alto Bicycles only works in super affluent areas (like Palo Alto). Where operating costs are crazy high, but there are plenty of VCs to come in on a Tuesday and drop $10k on a new Madone. Or Moots. Or new gear, whatever. It is a beautiful shop with great inventory and knowledgable employees. And you pay for it.
Velotech is a small shop with 2 employees. The owner/fitter and a technician. Seems like more of a lifestyle business than an attempt to actually make a profit. They do sell Colnago, Pinarello, Perogetti, Assos, etc. They are kept afloat by those VCs that have Madone money, but would rather buy what Wiggins is riding because it is more unique.
The biggest problem I see for the LBS is the inventory and cost thing. There is literally no way they can compete with the direct sellers. And when they do offer to order something, it takes longer than ordering online and I have to go to the shop to pick it up.
Solution seems to be to operate where people have more disposable income, and that doesn’t really seem scalable.
Agreed, these are definitely more whines and complaints and my LBS (Little Bitch Syndrone) at play. We are talking about 1st world problems here afterall.
What I meant to say is that I believe a bike shop has to tackle and overcome these issues. I buy my bikes from my LBS. I make sure I grab all my energy gel supplies, premium tune up and fitting from them, even though I have a full set of tools myself. However, I don’t think any of these “nice to have” things that you mentioned will keep all the LBS alive.
People will shop for value and you have to compete on that. I lost my local bookstore to Barnes and Nobles and then to Amazon. I lost my local coffee shop to Seattle’s Best and then to Starbucks. Business has to be run on hard economics.
In my opinion (educated guess, but coming from an office worker with no idea of the economics of an LBS)
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LBS have to grow in scale to have the inventory and purchase power to compete (I think TriSports might be an example of this)
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I think this dictates a hub and satellite model. A giant warehouse hub in a low rent location that acts as a show room for serious large ticket purchase. A place that can serve as a common destination for cyclists to park, ride, come back, browse and shop. Satellite locations can then be small (no need to inventory) and focus on service / repair / drop ship of parts.
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Some of the satellite locations could be simple cafe stops where you can drop your bike off for repair. Bikes would then get shipped to the hub for service and sent back for pickup. A computer based tracking system will allow you to track your progress. This will allow a satellite location to run off of the economics of a coffee shop, and allow good bike mechanics to serve multiple locations and maximize efficiency.
Why do I mention PerformanceBike? Because I think they have the right idea from a large picture perspective. Unfortunately, it seems like they hit some road blocks. I really don’t know the economics of an LBS and this could be completely off base.
"i agree. still, your suggestions aren’t suggestions. they’re whines. so the question is whether you WANT an LBS local to you. if not, if you think you can handle all your own wrenching, warranty, recalls, and you can anticipate all your needs well enough to buy mail order in advance, and you don’t need the LBS for anything, fine.
“2) I think this dictates a hub and satellite model. A giant warehouse hub in a low rent location that acts as a show room for serious large ticket purchase. A place that can serve as a common destination for cyclists to park, ride, come back, browse and shop. Satellite locations can then be small (no need to inventory) and focus on service / repair / drop ship of parts.”
wow. interesting. i need to noodle this.
I think about the only thing my LBS is missing is a bar. I’ve been very happy with everything they have done for me so far.
All I want from my LBS is to tune up my bike and install parts that I bought cheaper somewhere else.
Yeah I am one of those guys.
And before I hear “you need to support your LBS and buy parts from them”, yeah well screw that noise. Velofix will do what I want if the LBS goes under.
All I want from my LBS is to tune up my bike and install parts that I bought cheaper somewhere else.
Yeah I am one of those guys.
And before I hear “you need to support your LBS and buy parts from them”, yeah well screw that noise. Velofix will do what I want if the LBS goes under.All of that tough talk doesn’t change the fact that the math for Velofix is even worse than the math for the average LBS.
I get that your average LBS owner wants to sell me stuff. Unfortunately for them, everything they sell besides bikes is available on the internet at a lower price with an infinitely larger selection. I did not by a bike this year but have spent over $2500 on bike stuff and clothing. Of that, less than $300 was at a local LBS and almost all of that at a national big box bike store that hardly qualifies as an LBS. Once Canyon gets up and running, I won’t need them for bikes either. It’s like my local newspaper cold calling me to start subscribing to home delivery again. It was nice, but those days are over.
I’m not sure the following can keep an LBS in business but, here’s what would at least get me in the door and thinking about them more.
I know you can’t stock a full range of clothing, but hook up with a clothing maker or two and run some “trunk shows” during the year where I can try stuff on and order stuff. That is one thing where I have spend a bunch of money on line this year that I gladly would have paid a bit more for locally if I could have tried stuff on and touched it. An indoor ride studio with some good programs
Now for some general stuff I do think would drive business to them in the long run. All of this revolves around being more than just a store.
Run a killer youth cycling teamRun “rider safety” classes for little kids Host group rides and generally make your shop someplace cyclists will hang out at and around. To that end, why in most areas are 90% of the clubs only loosely affiliated if at all with a bike shop. Bike shops should be running the club scene. Be the go to source for local riding info. Publish a local ride route map for those folks not geeked out on Strava (on line and an old fashion printed one too).Do things for my wife and all other casual riders, e.g. 10 mile group rides, pub crawls, “ride to work” days. Selling stuff to people like me is not a good long term business model if you are going to try and do it from a high cost fixed location. But, there is still money to be made selling bikes and fitness related stuff to the general bike riders out there.