What do you want from your LBS?

Triathlon Forum
42

It’s already been mentioned, but timely service. For any work it seems like its 5-7 days before we’ll be able to have a look at the bike, but you need to leave it here for those days. I only have 1 bike and I don’t want to be without it for a week.

Yeah that made switch shops. If I have one bike and I commute on it and run errands on it…a 5 day turnaround is unacceptable.

Also I know it’s a dead horse, but competency. It took me 4 shops to get a front triple adjusted so I could use all three chainrings.

43

I forgot Bar Tape. I’ve seen bar tape four times the online price. It may be in a nicer box, but it is still ridiculous.

Possibly I am being cynical, but I think they have a silly price for any consumables that they may use during a service. E.g. they service the bike and charge extra silly price to use their bar tape. Same applies to cabling and brake pads. I basically avoid ever getting anything they might use in servicing. I’m not sure they really ever want to sell those things direct.

You seriously don’t have a grasp on basic economics and retail sales. Bike shops aren’t
charging 3 to 4x online prices to screw you over, they are just trying to survive! Small businesses succeed through building rapport and forging relationships with customers, not by squeezing them for every last penny, and kicking them to the curb in an effort to make an extra $5 on a bicycle tube.

44

I think a lot of it could come down to supply chain issues, but I’d like to see:

Less Bikes. Have a few to look at, but fit me and order it. Especially with the > $1,000 stuff. One thing that drives me nuts about how bike shops display bikes is that I can barely see the bike in the rack. Half the time, I can’t touch it without fear of knocking over a rack of 20 other bikes. Don’t make me play bicycle Jenga with your inventory. Put it on a display, by itself, where I can walk around it and look at it, like the old buck at the car show admiring every detail of that '67 GTO like he had when he was in school. Encourage this budding mechanical romance. Drop the inventory a bit and give the bikes some room to sell themselves. Make it like a car showroom rather than the soap aisle at Walmart. Treat my future bike like the next love of my life rather than a commodity I’m going to rub in my ass crack.

More clothing and shoes. This is still one of the harder things to buy online - it’s a tactile, squishy bits thing. These are also the things that get exponentially expensive to stock… Call me crazy, but put a mannequin next to the bike as described above with a kit that matches the bike. Cycling is a fashion industry as much as it is a sport.

Focus on women. I’m not talking about hanging more pictures of half naked models draped over bikes that don’t fit them, but tailoring the shopping experience to them - women’s products, women fitters, women mechanics, women salespeople, owners, etc. This is a sport for all people. I should count sometime, but I wouldn’t be surprised if more than half of my fit customers are women, and they all refer each other to me. Several have commented about how they feel more comfortable talking to me about sensitive issues than they do at other local shops because my fitting studio is in my basement and it’s private.

The Complementary Interests Retail Model. I just made that up. I think the idea of combining the bike shop with some other semi-related function is going to be imperative to the survival of the LBS. Whether it’s the coffee shop that sells bikes, brewery that sells bikes, ski shop that sells bikes, bike shop that sells skis (Erik’s Bike Shops in Minnesota come to mind), marijuana shops selling bikes (“Rassat’s Reefer and Rides”? OK, maybe not my best idea…) or whatever - retail space is expensive and doesn’t get any cheaper during the slow season. Buoying the bike business with something that does well in the off-season or year-round has potential. With that said, please don’t come up with job titles that are some weird mashup of “barista” and “mechanic.”

Go Mobile. I think this is catching on, although I haven’t seen it done really well yet. I’m not sure I’ll know what “really well” is until I see it and say “holy shit, that’s brilliant.” I’ll then regret that I didn’t think of it first, and cry myself to sleep sipping a beer I bought at the local bike shop.

45

I think honesty hits the nail on the head. And that is for both parties

I had a LBS that I went to for some work. I needed some parts and they helped me identify which parts I needed. They said “We can order them for $xxx and get them maybe in a week or you can order them online for $xx and have them in 2 days. If you buy through us install is free. If you get them online we can still install the parts at a cost which will still be cheaper than us ordering them, and it will be done faster. However, we will only guarantee the labor. If the part fails you may have to send it back through the place you purchased it. What can we do to get the bike done for you?”

They used the LBS computer to show me where I could get parts from a reputable vendor in a timely manner. It wasn’t some eBay crapshoot on used parts. They showed me why they recommended certain gearing by showing me the online gearing calcs vs saying “trust me this is what you want”.

I ordered the parts online, had them installed, and have used the LBS for purchasing many other things because I feel that we are on the same side. It isn’t me vs them. They made a higher margin on labor and I saved some money overall. I think it is a win/win. That may be naive of me, but then again they could have lost the business altogether.

I think this is what a lot of the group rides do as well. It shows the consumer that the folks there are in the same situation and understand the choices that a consumer must make. Not some money grubbing business who I’d only them to trick you into paying MSRP which is 3x the market value.

I don’t want to feel like I am “cheating” to buy the part online or that I will get the 3rd degree when I need online parts installed or a direct purchase bike worked on. Everyone, including all the folks at the bike shop know that I can order the parts cheaper and probably receive them faster online but I may need the LBS for the expertise they offer.

That being said, there are the gotta have today parts. I expect to pay a little higher than online but don’t want to get gouged. Cables, bar tape, tubes, tires, chain, nutrition, oil, etc. I don’t need the LBS to stock 15 of the $150 jerseys or $200 bibs in size xxs to xxxxl. Have the $15-20 bar tape or $35 tires or $30 chain. If you are the road/ triathlon store carry latex tubes, valve extenders, and sealant. Carry the semi expendable items that your consumers need or may want to replace the Friday before the Sunday race.

I like to know when to drop off the bike and when to pick up. This shouldn’t be a week long time frame. Under promise and over deliver. Don’t tell me to bring it in and we will squeeze it in. When i get told it will be done today and then when I call at 30 min prior to close they change the story to 2-3 days I know that is generally BS and lost business. I had one shop that was honest. “Sh*t we just got backed up and didnt get to your bike and it wont be done by close. We will have it done before noon tomorrow, can we drop it off to you at work or home at lunch time?” I declined the delivery but was extremely appreciative that they recognized that there was an inconvenience for the bike not being done when expected. They continue to get my $$$.

46

Being about survival doesn’t make sense. By charging multiples of the normal price they are massively reducing the chance of anyone buying from them at all & if I were going into the shop I would almost certainly end up buying other stuff. It is also bad PR.

You could argue that people who don’t know better will buy it, but then they won’t change it themselves anyway.

There must be a reason they the charge silly amounts that they know will drive down occasional walk-in custom & the only explanation I can think of is that they want to add it to servicing bills.

47

That’s very true. Especially in the age of Strava, all they need to do is setup a club, get you to join and they will have access to your mileage and what not. From there, they can figure out when to send service reminders and so on.

48

I think that generally speaking we are in the midst of a wholesale change in the consumer shopping habits. For years, the great majority of the consumer products have been sold at very low prices, with few exceptions. At the same time, consumers learned to live on less and drive for greater and greater value (ie the Wal-Mart/Amazon model).

Therefore, any retailer (LBS included) that try to survive on “Great Service”, style, brand name, etc. are going to get punished. The internet stores and the others at the forefront of this trend will not be letting up either.

The only way forward for LBS is clearly provide value. Examples:

Being a Tri-bike or BikeFlights partner
Organizing and funding adventure tours
Mobile bike service with flexible hours
Having a certified and easily accessible fitter
Possessing expertise in building wheels based on Chinese carbon
Accepting as trade-in and selling used gear at competitive prices

49

I forgot Bar Tape. I’ve seen bar tape four times the online price. It may be in a nicer box, but it is still ridiculous.

Possibly I am being cynical, but I think they have a silly price for any consumables that they may use during a service. E.g. they service the bike and charge extra silly price to use their bar tape. Same applies to cabling and brake pads. I basically avoid ever getting anything they might use in servicing. I’m not sure they really ever want to sell those things direct.

You seriously don’t have a grasp on basic economics and retail sales. Bike shops aren’t
charging 3 to 4x online prices to screw you over, they are just trying to survive! Small businesses succeed through building rapport and forging relationships with customers, not by squeezing them for every last penny, and kicking them to the curb in an effort to make an extra $5 on a bicycle tube.

No, it is more that that…it is the distribution model. For most stuff like bar tape and other small parts / accessories, shops are buying through distributors. That adds another layer into the distribution model, a layer that adds additional cost, 'cuz they need their slice of the pie too.

A shop does not have the wherewithal and time to buy all their stuff direct from the suppliers themselves, especially since they often need to order in smaller quantities than the supplier wants to sell.

All this nonsense about “I can find it for less on the internet”…well, no fookin’ duh. I can find damn near ANY consumer product for substantially less on the internet. I don’t blame the retailer in those cases, I just make my purchases appropriately.

The lack of understanding on the basics of the retail environment is kinda staggering. One poster said he wants a “knowledgeable staff” but didn’t want to pay more than what he can find on the internet. Well, guess what…those two goals are just about 100% incompatible.

50
  1. An acknowledgement that there is more to life than mountain bikes and city bikes. If it’s tri related I’m forced to go online.
  2. An attempt to keep up with technology. Di2 should not be science fiction. Tri bikes are not an experiment.
  3. I want to give you $$$. Why are customer service and making deadlines so difficult?
51

Some of these posts are very confusing.

For example, what does a “certified” fitter mean? Do you also want a “certified” triathlon coach? Do you know how much money goes into certain certifications? I am BG level 1 certified and that probably cost the shop I used to work for about 2.5-3k. Now add in Retul (flight to Colorado), Guru (flight to wherever the F that is), Fisting (Flight to Cali), and probably lodging at a lot of those places.

I’m not “certified” in the way you probably mean but I’d hazard that I am a better triathlon fitter than most who call themselves such and are “certified.”

An LBS organizing and FUNDING an adventure tour?

Also, a wheel builder refusing to build an open mold chinese wheel is well within his or her right, in my opinion.

Some of these services you all are deeming “necessary” are completely unrealistic. Hosting a Strava group to track customers’ mileage and send out service reminders? But, one guy doesn’t wanna pay for consumables at his LBS because they “gouge” him…?

Seriously, wtf people.

52
  1. An acknowledgement that there is more to life than mountain bikes and city bikes. If it’s tri related I’m forced to go online.
  2. An attempt to keep up with technology. Di2 should not be science fiction. Tri bikes are not an experiment.
  3. I want to give you $$$. Why are customer service and making deadlines so difficult?

If you are shopping in an LBS that specializes in MTB and city bikes and doesn’t know much about Di2, the problem is you, not the LBS.

Harsh reality - trip is a small niche in the bike world. MTB, city bikes and recreational gear pays the bills. Most shops don’t care much about tri because it doesn’t get close to being on their radar screen.

53

Of the handful of bike shops I’ve dealt with, only one has clearly won me over as a committed customer. The things that made a difference -

  1. Hosting a bunch of shop rides - beginners, ladies, trail, fast road, everything. They also ran trainer sessions through the winter.

  2. Community involvement. This might be a bit specific, as it was a college town, but they “sponsored” the cycling and triathlon clubs. Sponsorship was just some occasional discounts, and free pre-race tune-ups for club members. They were also at basically every single local race to provide mechanical support.

  3. Hosting an annual community bike swap. I reckon they make a pretty good deal on it, too. Bikes and all cycling-related gear are dropped off at the store the week prior, and they’ll help you set a price. When stuff is sold, you can either take the full value in store credit, or 80% of the sale price… They have people lining up at the door every year for this.

  4. Minor adjustments on the spot. I remember multiple times stopping in at the end of a ride because something felt a bit loose or was creaking, etc., and they just fixed it immediately, no charge. Pretty sure I went out of my way to buy something when they did that.

54

I can think of two shops that have been in business forever and follow the complementary business model you talked about. They switch to a focus on skiing in the winter. Also, because people who bike and ski tend to be fairly outdoorsy in general, they sell camping and hiking gear as well. Also, in those shops, the staff doesn’t work on commissions. That means that if I have a question about a bike and the closest person doesn’t know the answer, he just gets someone who does instead of trying to sell me bullshit.

55

-Up to date on the latest trends: I’m lucky that my shop was ahead of the curve when it came to tubeless tires (when everyone else was running $$$ and heavy Mavic UST setups), stans and open mold carbon wheelsets. They were pushing 2x when everyone was 3x
It’s sad when you hear stories of shops not knowing the benefits of latex tubes, low rolling resistance supple tires, aerodynamics, power meters, non UST tubeless etc. Especially if these are consumable products. they should be the shop’s bread and butter.

-communicate with distributors and bike companies for better value spec’d bikes. Better OEM rims and spokes on bikes instead of an up-spec’d rear derailleur.

I think a lot of the online purchasing mentality has to do with getting hung up on the cost of high end bike parts. We see that DA group, wheelset, or sketchy carbon frame online for half price, but the bike shop can supply a 105 or ultegra level build that is quite competitive

Also, anyone who asks an uninformed, and obvious bike related question should be directed to their LBS

56

I’m following this thread with interest since the shop i work for is trying to stay ahead of the curve on what is transpiring in the marketplace. I would like to address some of your complaints however, since we haven’t found an answer to some of these maybe you can help.

Trade ins, we have tried this in the past, we have always lost money on this. People don’t want to take a low enough number on the trade in and no one wants to pay us what we need to make a profit on used. Bike values are now searchable on line, via bicycle blue book and the like, folks want close to that value and no one of course wants to pay full value for anything.

Service wait times, we think we have this one figured out. This year at one point we had 93 bikes waiting on service, this in a town of 45000. With 5-6 wrenchs going full blast everyday we were barely staying ahead of the influx, we had as many as 20 bikes coming in daily. So we started doing bikes by appointment, this worked for a while but then folks started not bringing their bike in on the day of their appointment and being upset when we couldn’t get to it two days later when they did come in. For next season we are putting on a late shift of mechanics. They will work from closing until midnight with the shop closed so they can focus on just knocking out the work.

I’d love to hear any comments or suggestions on ways to deal with either of these issues.

57

Good mechanics. Right now I drive 1.5 hours each way to get to a mechanic I trust to work on my bike. Probably pass close to a dozen shops on the way.

58

I don’t stick to one single shop, as there are many to choose from. Some have strengths (inventory, prices, services or product not found at another).
One of the main shops I use–dubbed one of the best in the country, has a thing or two that bugged me in the past others mentioned.

1)The “whole attitude-ego-you-know-nothing-and-don’t-bother-me” type feel. But that has luckily gone away with individuals, or has been changed in some who displayed this in the past. It may be they just know me better & loosened up.
2) But a gripe aside from that has been “We can fit you in about 1-2 weeks out from now.” Sorry but I’m going elsewhere. Not to mention I’ve at times taken the bike in for shifting issues and new cables/housing–only to have it worse than when I went in, or still making noise prior to bringing it in. When I’ve run into booked schedules near local big races, I’ve gone to a Mountain Bike shop–where they were super quick and bang on services at a low cost while I waited. I’d return more often but they really don’t have TT/triathlon stuff there. But wouldn’t hesitate if they stocked it.

Things I like about the shop is for most everything I need, my local “tri” shop has it. Not all the brands, but something close to what would make me happy to use. Prices are retail, fine, I’ll pay a little more & contribute to the locally owned tri shop–because they are there for me with what I feel is the best advice I’ll get (because they are triathletes too, not a cross shop or cruiser bike shop…) They can’t always meet the promptness of my needs if there is an emergency, which is fine, but usually they can and have surprised me. I like the shop crew they have now, and I have given them back more business I gave to other bike shops/warehouse catalog places because they have tightened up their game, improved displays with cutting edge / latest gadgets you usually see just released in magazines…so they are definitely improving. They hold social settings, group rides, have coffee, allow dogs…so they are doing some things right for sure & would hate to see them go away due to the health of bike shops not being all that great these days.

59

free market research… but what the hell…

They offer showers, lockers and storage in a monthly membership fee. Incredibly popular with commuters, particularly in the finance sector. I’d expand this and run a laundry/dry clean service in cahoots with one of the many dry cleaners. Diversify from just selling parts they can’t compete on price.

They have a coffee shop, but it’s all a bit small and I never want to spend much time there. It’s not really engaging. My favourite shop was Mud Dock Cycleworks, with a standalone Spanish bar/restaurant connected to the shop.

I would focus on the service side. The most impressive store I’ve seen was in Holland where the workshop was behind a glass wall. Three large bays that were pristine. The shop also sold a phenomenal amount of high end commuters.

I would rent workshop bays by the hour. Buy online, come work on your bike. If you’ve forgotten something, the shop is on hand to sell it to you and there’s an experienced wrench to lend a word of advice. I’d offer a parcel receiving service. The area direct sales fall downs for me is that parts are quite valuable and many sent via a signed for service, which if I miss delivery means a thirty minute drive to the main postal depot. I might not have time to go for a few days, which negates the direct sales benefit.

An LBS set up an amateur race team of customers. Instantly alienated a huge swathe of customers who were already racing in other local clubs. Now lots of guys don’t want to go to the competition.

I would give up selling the mainstream. I’d curate a boutique selection of parts. Clothing wise I’d import a run of kit from one of the smaller boutique brands and showcase it for a quarter. I.e. Attaquer, the Pedla, etc.

I’d focus on fittings and develop a reputation.

I’d look at expanding the after work utilisation of the store to include a fitness studio. I’ve seen this done incredibly well. Come in, get a profile made with your Strava/Garmin profile, join a group session and five minutes after you e finished it’s all uploaded to your account.

It’s a tough market for the LBS - I don’t think they can survive if they think of themselves as a store rather than a cycling centre offering services and socialising.

60

For purchasing a new bike - Having a designated appointment out of normal opening times. Giving time for the customer to go through their options, without taking up precious sales time for the LBS during the normal working day. After an initial back and forth by email to set priorities. I don’t want to waste half a day on the weekend dodging other customers when i could be out training. Organised Pick Up/Drop off of bike or equipment from Home or Work for services. At an additional cost to the customer. Honesty - What is best for the type or riding & racing you are doing. A well laid out shop with displays looking neat, rather than packed with product. It makes for a much nicer shopping experience. Partner with the FOP racers in local clubs, as they will inevitably be asked from team members, who did the bike fits wheels etc. Our partner shop has got a tonne of business this way, by supporting one guy in our team with a disc wheel at local races. He’s sold over 20 bikes & 40+ Bike fits based off of recommendations in one year. Bikes were from €600-€5k (The Tri club is >400 people, with >150 active racers.)
An additional point for the customers who are buying the more expensive equipment is to send a well done email/text on their race performance, if it was spoken about it during the consultation/sale. It’s a small effort to set a reminder in the calendar but is a really nice touch for the Athlete to receive. Again leading to some brand loyalty and potential future sales.

61

here’s what i’m asking: what bugs you about your LBS, or what makes you happy about your LBS, that they either are doing or that they aren’t doing? as examples, a shop either is now doing, or doesn’t and it want it to begin doing…

  • providing good, professional bike fitting aboard modern fit bikes using modern fit methodology.
  • offering custom footbeds and effective pedal/shoe interface.
  • working on my consumer direct purchases without sneering and giving me attitude.
  • providing service on my bike in a more timely fashion (even by appt).
  • offer a coffee bar with a barista in the shop.

and so forth. what is it that turns you on about your shop or shops you’ve seen? what is it you want that you don’t now get?

Aside from the barista (they sell cold brewed coffee), my shop does these things. Also have a cycling studio, treadmills, Vasa, Endless Pool, showers, bicycle valet, a lounge space, weekend rides with I think 1 per month that invites a wider skill set. They do community out reach, sponsor a youth cycling team, donate coaching time to a sporting-fundraising group (D-Nation). I bought wheels from another ST’er and the shop let me have them delivered there and gave them a quick look over to let me know they weren’t garbage.

I bought my tri bike at full MSRP (and it hurt) but got a percentage of that back on a gift card to use on other purchases at full MSRP. I figure the pricing all washed out in the end.
I’ve never experienced a difference in how my purchased from them vs not-purchased from them bikes were treated or in how I was treated before buying a bike from them vs since having done so.

Some staff follow up better than others but I think that would be my only major gripe. I wish it were easier for someone to be a monster retailer of clothing since mail order/return until you get something that fits well is a hassle.

To answer what do I not get that I’d really like: clinic on basic bike maintanence. I think REI does this but I’d rather do it through the shop I train with. And a clinic on dismantling/assembling my bike for flying. I’ve read a bunch on-line about these things but wouldn’t mind this as a community building experience that could also confirm I’m doing stuff right or more likely show me some improvement.